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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's Personal Lawyer And Campaign Manager Both Going To Prison

EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Ok, so your answer is that everyone is corrupt and no matter how many times Trump will lie about anything whether big or small you believe his actions so far shows he is legit.  Yeah that sounds like a cop out.  I support this corrupt person because I believe everyone else is corrupt.  I am not sure what actions make you believe Trump is somehow more honest then his years of basic lying, cheating and incompetence but that part I will not argue.  

My point is that it seems you just excuse everything.  Its one thing for someone to be wrong, to make mistakes, its another for people to be tolerant if that person constantly does something wrong and just accept it.

Did Stormy lose her husband during this whole thing.  Yeah, maybe you see she turned out ok but it appears to me she lost something and probably at the end of this will lose more for dealing with Trump.

No, my answer was "considering any individual who follows a political path, is corrupt enough that they shouldn't be given this type of power ever." I never said anything about always believing Trump, your assuming that. I also never said I supported him. You assume because I'm indirectly taking his side in this case, that I'm solely on his side, when I just explained how the situation would play out based on the facts available.

Your point is more of a blunt edge. This is one topic about one situation, and yet I'm somehow defending everything Trump has ever done? I'm not a coloring book, but if I was, your supposed to stay inside the edges, not color the entire page.

So you say it's Trump's own fault for screwing around with Stormy, and he should face any consequences that arise because of that, but Stormy is solely a victim and isn't responsible at all for her side of the poor decisions, and everyone should feel sorry for her? Apparently her husband doesn't have a lot of good to say about her aside from just the Trump fling. Is she not the one who came forward in the first place? It's Trump's fault she didn't think things through back then and more recently?

Ok, there is no doubt that I assume you do support him since your defense so far has given me no reason to doubt it.  If this isn't the case then lets just narrow down everything to this one incident.  My personal view on this incident is not that paying hush money is illegal.  My viewpoint is if Trump was advised that it was a violation and he chose to do it anyway then he placed himself in legal jeopardy. I do not care about Trump sex life or his immoral character when it comes to cheating on his wife.  I do consider that something between the husband and wife but I also feel its fair play when you run for public office.  People do judge people in public office based on such characters flaws and its relevant.  As for Trump supporters, I highly doubt that anyone would be surprised or even care since he has cheated on every one of his wives so why would this make a difference.

So my viewpoint is that if this becomes a serious issue for Trump, and he knew he was in violation then he took the risk and put himself in legal jeopardy.  We can argue all day on if campaign finance laws or this particular incident is serious enough to affect a sitting president but we are only guessing and only if this ever goes to court would we find out if there is any real meat to it.

As for Trump cheating on his wife with 2 different people during the time of this marriage (that's 2 we know about), yes, as a married man I do believe he should face any and all humiliation being a serial cheater.  Who had more to lose, Stormy or Trump.  Yes, she is as guilty for sleeping with the married man as the married man is for cheating.  Her involvement with the whole situation does not lessen Trump commitment to cheat or his character.  I see people try to deflect from Trump actions by focusing on Stormy but you can put them both in the same basket.  If you have secretes to hide, why go for the highest office in the country and not believe people will comb through your life looking for any and all dirt.



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Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

No, my answer was "considering any individual who follows a political path, is corrupt enough that they shouldn't be given this type of power ever." I never said anything about always believing Trump, your assuming that. I also never said I supported him. You assume because I'm indirectly taking his side in this case, that I'm solely on his side, when I just explained how the situation would play out based on the facts available.

Your point is more of a blunt edge. This is one topic about one situation, and yet I'm somehow defending everything Trump has ever done? I'm not a coloring book, but if I was, your supposed to stay inside the edges, not color the entire page.

So you say it's Trump's own fault for screwing around with Stormy, and he should face any consequences that arise because of that, but Stormy is solely a victim and isn't responsible at all for her side of the poor decisions, and everyone should feel sorry for her? Apparently her husband doesn't have a lot of good to say about her aside from just the Trump fling. Is she not the one who came forward in the first place? It's Trump's fault she didn't think things through back then and more recently?

Ok, there is no doubt that I assume you do support him since your defense so far has given me no reason to doubt it.  If this isn't the case then lets just narrow down everything to this one incident.  My personal view on this incident is not that paying hush money is illegal.  My viewpoint is if Trump was advised that it was a violation and he chose to do it anyway then he placed himself in legal jeopardy. I do not care about Trump sex life or his immoral character when it comes to cheating on his wife.  I do consider that something between the husband and wife but I also feel its fair play when you run for public office.  People do judge people in public office based on such characters flaws and its relevant.  As for Trump supporters, I highly doubt that anyone would be surprised or even care since he has cheated on every one of his wives so why would this make a difference.

So my viewpoint is that if this becomes a serious issue for Trump, and he knew he was in violation then he took the risk and put himself in legal jeopardy.  We can argue all day on if campaign finance laws or this particular incident is serious enough to affect a sitting president but we are only guessing and only if this ever goes to court would we find out if there is any real meat to it.

As for Trump cheating on his wife with 2 different people during the time of this marriage (that's 2 we know about), yes, as a married man I do believe he should face any and all humiliation being a serial cheater.  Who had more to lose, Stormy or Trump.  Yes, she is as guilty for sleeping with the married man as the married man is for cheating.  Her involvement with the whole situation does not lessen Trump commitment to cheat or his character.  I see people try to deflect from Trump actions by focusing on Stormy but you can put them both in the same basket.  If you have secretes to hide, why go for the highest office in the country and not believe people will comb through your life looking for any and all dirt.

If Trump knew and was rightfully advised there would be an issue. Was he told this, or maybe was he told it wasn't all that clear based on his particular situation? Was he told at all? How big this issue is really depends on how you view the situation. Like many have said, in this case it's typically just a fine, like others have had to pay in the past, so no big deal. I would agree most Trump supporters turn a blind eye to this and it's most likely based on the viewpoint that doing what's right for the many, outweighs doing what's wrong by just Trump in his personal life, aside from anything too extreme that is. The line can bend just as long as it's not broken.

Depends on your point of view. Some people will care that Trump cheated, some will not. Some people will care that he eats extremely unhealthy food and doesn't seem to care about his health as much he could, when others could care less that he loves his greasy KFC. Trump doesn't seem to be all that worried about the affair claims themselves, it's the politics behind it that he denies for the most part. I don't see Trump trying to hide all that much, considering what a loud mouth he is, but he does try to squash much of the 'politics' that seem to rise up, because much of it is useless nonsense and wastes his and everybody else's time, other than maybe his opponents and their voters of course.



NightlyPoe said:
Final-Fan said:

If we're talking about prosecutorial discretion, aren't we in the gray area between the executive and judicial branches?

Don't see why it would be.

Honestly, I'm just going to bow out at this point.  I didn't expect the conversation to last this long, and I don't really want to spend more time defending Trump.

Fair enough, but one last question, please.  Why do you think it's prosecutorial discretion?  My understanding was that the FBI investigates potential crimes, and then hands it off to the Justice Department for prosecution.  Prosecutorial discretion per se would come into play at that point, and not during the initial investigation, I would think. 

If even this is something you no longer care to answer, I can accept that. 



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NightlyPoe said:
Final-Fan said:

Fair enough, but one last question, please.  Why do you think it's prosecutorial discretion?  My understanding was that the FBI investigates potential crimes, and then hands it off to the Justice Department for prosecution.  Prosecutorial discretion per se would come into play at that point, and not during the initial investigation, I would think. 

If even this is something you no longer care to answer, I can accept that. 

I probably shouldn't have used it.  I'll blame posting while running out the door for work for unwisely using the term too loosely.

I've been guilty of hasty posting plenty of times.  See you around. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

Ok, there is no doubt that I assume you do support him since your defense so far has given me no reason to doubt it.  If this isn't the case then lets just narrow down everything to this one incident.  My personal view on this incident is not that paying hush money is illegal.  My viewpoint is if Trump was advised that it was a violation and he chose to do it anyway then he placed himself in legal jeopardy. I do not care about Trump sex life or his immoral character when it comes to cheating on his wife.  I do consider that something between the husband and wife but I also feel its fair play when you run for public office.  People do judge people in public office based on such characters flaws and its relevant.  As for Trump supporters, I highly doubt that anyone would be surprised or even care since he has cheated on every one of his wives so why would this make a difference.

So my viewpoint is that if this becomes a serious issue for Trump, and he knew he was in violation then he took the risk and put himself in legal jeopardy.  We can argue all day on if campaign finance laws or this particular incident is serious enough to affect a sitting president but we are only guessing and only if this ever goes to court would we find out if there is any real meat to it.

As for Trump cheating on his wife with 2 different people during the time of this marriage (that's 2 we know about), yes, as a married man I do believe he should face any and all humiliation being a serial cheater.  Who had more to lose, Stormy or Trump.  Yes, she is as guilty for sleeping with the married man as the married man is for cheating.  Her involvement with the whole situation does not lessen Trump commitment to cheat or his character.  I see people try to deflect from Trump actions by focusing on Stormy but you can put them both in the same basket.  If you have secretes to hide, why go for the highest office in the country and not believe people will comb through your life looking for any and all dirt.

If Trump knew and was rightfully advised there would be an issue. Was he told this, or maybe was he told it wasn't all that clear based on his particular situation? Was he told at all? How big this issue is really depends on how you view the situation. Like many have said, in this case it's typically just a fine, like others have had to pay in the past, so no big deal. I would agree most Trump supporters turn a blind eye to this and it's most likely based on the viewpoint that doing what's right for the many, outweighs doing what's wrong by just Trump in his personal life, aside from anything too extreme that is. The line can bend just as long as it's not broken.

Depends on your point of view. Some people will care that Trump cheated, some will not. Some people will care that he eats extremely unhealthy food and doesn't seem to care about his health as much he could, when others could care less that he loves his greasy KFC. Trump doesn't seem to be all that worried about the affair claims themselves, it's the politics behind it that he denies for the most part. I don't see Trump trying to hide all that much, considering what a loud mouth he is, but he does try to squash much of the 'politics' that seem to rise up, because much of it is useless nonsense and wastes his and everybody else's time, other than maybe his opponents and their voters of course.

Isn't that the point that has him in this situation.  If he cared about the actual affair and it coming out then it would be a personal issue which can then be argued he would do this anyway whether he was running for president or not.  If he did it because of politics, then it falls under a contribution which is what a lot of legal experts are saying.  Violations of campaign finance laws can have jail time depending on the severity.  I have no clue how federal prosecutors would charge Trump or even if they would.  If anything it just goes on the pile of other stuff and if anything will just be a political tool by another running candidate during reelection to pin corruption on him.

The thing is, Trump cannot squash politics in a Job that demand you command and understand politics.  Everyone he meets, talk to, work with play in that space and inexperience or being naive only get you punished.  You see Trump's inexperience every time he meets a leader from another country, talks about things he doesn't have a full grasp on.  People do not hire people into a demanding job without experience.  Do you believe Trump would hire someone in a senior position within his real estate business if that person did not have experience at the job.



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Machiavellian said:
EricHiggin said:

If Trump knew and was rightfully advised there would be an issue. Was he told this, or maybe was he told it wasn't all that clear based on his particular situation? Was he told at all? How big this issue is really depends on how you view the situation. Like many have said, in this case it's typically just a fine, like others have had to pay in the past, so no big deal. I would agree most Trump supporters turn a blind eye to this and it's most likely based on the viewpoint that doing what's right for the many, outweighs doing what's wrong by just Trump in his personal life, aside from anything too extreme that is. The line can bend just as long as it's not broken.

Depends on your point of view. Some people will care that Trump cheated, some will not. Some people will care that he eats extremely unhealthy food and doesn't seem to care about his health as much he could, when others could care less that he loves his greasy KFC. Trump doesn't seem to be all that worried about the affair claims themselves, it's the politics behind it that he denies for the most part. I don't see Trump trying to hide all that much, considering what a loud mouth he is, but he does try to squash much of the 'politics' that seem to rise up, because much of it is useless nonsense and wastes his and everybody else's time, other than maybe his opponents and their voters of course.

Isn't that the point that has him in this situation.  If he cared about the actual affair and it coming out then it would be a personal issue which can then be argued he would do this anyway whether he was running for president or not.  If he did it because of politics, then it falls under a contribution which is what a lot of legal experts are saying.  Violations of campaign finance laws can have jail time depending on the severity.  I have no clue how federal prosecutors would charge Trump or even if they would.  If anything it just goes on the pile of other stuff and if anything will just be a political tool by another running candidate during reelection to pin corruption on him.

The thing is, Trump cannot squash politics in a Job that demand you command and understand politics.  Everyone he meets, talk to, work with play in that space and inexperience or being naive only get you punished.  You see Trump's inexperience every time he meets a leader from another country, talks about things he doesn't have a full grasp on.  People do not hire people into a demanding job without experience.  Do you believe Trump would hire someone in a senior position within his real estate business if that person did not have experience at the job.

Trumps done a pretty good job of keeping the 'media politics' at bay though. He can't squash them all, but luckily for him, much of today's politics that are put in front of the people, are lazy useless politics that Trump can brush off. In today's world, there are always some individuals or groups going out of their way to politicize everything and anything, and if you spin it right, you can do just that. The problem for them, is that the people are starting to wake up, and for those that are woke, they are long done with the overboard political correctness BS. It's like trying to dig yourself out of quicksand at this point. Until the left start to go after Trump for extremely legit reasons, with hard evidence to back them up, they are just going to continue to sink. Either that, or they need to forget about Trump and ignore him, and put forth worthwhile opposition candidates with strong policies and messaging.

Trump doesn't call it the swamp for no reason. He knows exactly where he is, and is doing what he can to 'drain it' without screwing himself over in the process. Which isn't an easy thing to do at all to say the least, when you have every single swamp monster and creature trying to drown you non stop, all day, every day. Long game progress takes time, and even more time when your constantly dodging and dismantling road blocks at every left turn.

Would Trump hire someone like that? No, because Trump is a billionaire and his business is doing just fine so there is no need for him to stoop 'that low'. The American people, felt their 'business' was quite unstable and headed for another downward trend, and because the known experienced candidate didn't seem to care about that, they and their political system, took their chances with the new guy who said he could fix that problem as well as some other's that mattered to the people. So far he's done a pretty good job on those specific tasks. As for the rest of the many tasks, he'll either figure them out along the way, or he'll screw them up royally, which could mean a short 4 year term. I guess we'll see.



EricHiggin said:

Trumps done a pretty good job of keeping the 'media politics' at bay though. He can't squash them all, but luckily for him, much of today's politics that are put in front of the people, are lazy useless politics that Trump can brush off. In today's world, there are always some individuals or groups going out of their way to politicize everything and anything, and if you spin it right, you can do just that. The problem for them, is that the people are starting to wake up, and for those that are woke, they are long done with the overboard political correctness BS. It's like trying to dig yourself out of quicksand at this point. Until the left start to go after Trump for extremely legit reasons, with hard evidence to back them up, they are just going to continue to sink. Either that, or they need to forget about Trump and ignore him, and put forth worthwhile opposition candidates with strong policies and messaging.

Trump doesn't call it the swamp for no reason. He knows exactly where he is, and is doing what he can to 'drain it' without screwing himself over in the process. Which isn't an easy thing to do at all to say the least, when you have every single swamp monster and creature trying to drown you non stop, all day, every day. Long game progress takes time, and even more time when your constantly dodging and dismantling road blocks at every left turn.

Would Trump hire someone like that? No, because Trump is a billionaire and his business is doing just fine so there is no need for him to stoop 'that low'. The American people, felt their 'business' was quite unstable and headed for another downward trend, and because the known experienced candidate didn't seem to care about that, they and their political system, took their chances with the new guy who said he could fix that problem as well as some other's that mattered to the people. So far he's done a pretty good job on those specific tasks. As for the rest of the many tasks, he'll either figure them out along the way, or he'll screw them up royally, which could mean a short 4 year term. I guess we'll see.

I believe we have a totally different viewpoint of Trump holding the media at bay.  If you are saying that no particular scandal, idiotic comment or diplomatic misstep stays in the media for long because they happen so often the media cannot keep up, I agree. 

You talk about the left going after Trump but from what I can see, its his own party going after Trump.  Do not forget it was Trump who place himself in the Russian Investigation by going on TV and saying he fired Comey on investigating him.  Stop trying to switch blame on others for his own stupid mistakes.  He goes into meetings with no clue what he is doing and have no clue to learn the job and his responsibilities.  Go read the excerpt from Woodard book.  You state the Dems are sinking but the predictions from even the Republicans is that they will probably take the house back.  If anything, that is not sinking and it goes counter to the President doing a good job with a strong economy.

Please do not even start with the "Drain the Swamp" slogan.  It was nothing more than a political tool just like "Lock her up" and a host of other crap he stated during the election.  Read this for some context.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/15/13966872/trump-lying-daily-show

You can also find the video from the Florida rally where he basically stated it was a slogan nothing more or watch the video in the link above where Trevor clip that part.  Either way, if Trump is draining the swamp, its only so that he can fill it with his own swamp monsters.  Have you even been paying attention to his administration.  The long game for Trump is to fill Washington with everyone that says yes to him without question and who will do anything including illegal things to get what he wants done.

Actually you do not know how well Trump business is doing because he refused to show his taxes.  Also just because he is a billionaire who inherited his money, you do not know how well he has managed that wealth.  What you can do is research on ever failed business he has done over his years and how he mismanaged them.  Or you can see how many times he has deceived, lied to partners to understand why no one in the US wants to work with him.  Ask yourself why no bank in the US will give him any money for any of his projects anymore.  Ask yourself how many times he has stiffed contractors for work done.  You look up to this man because he is a billionaire as if that makes him smart enough to deal with the complex issues that come in front of the President.  There is nothing in Trump's pass that shows he is capable.  If you want to go on the roller coaster of all the failures he has done for him to figure it out while people suffer under him experimenting then be my guess.



Machiavellian said:

I believe we have a totally different viewpoint of Trump holding the media at bay.  If you are saying that no particular scandal, idiotic comment or diplomatic misstep stays in the media for long because they happen so often the media cannot keep up, I agree. 

You talk about the left going after Trump but from what I can see, its his own party going after Trump.  Do not forget it was Trump who place himself in the Russian Investigation by going on TV and saying he fired Comey on investigating him.  Stop trying to switch blame on others for his own stupid mistakes.  He goes into meetings with no clue what he is doing and have no clue to learn the job and his responsibilities.  Go read the excerpt from Woodard book.  You state the Dems are sinking but the predictions from even the Republicans is that they will probably take the house back.  If anything, that is not sinking and it goes counter to the President doing a good job with a strong economy.

Please do not even start with the "Drain the Swamp" slogan.  It was nothing more than a political tool just like "Lock her up" and a host of other crap he stated during the election.  Read this for some context.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/15/13966872/trump-lying-daily-show

You can also find the video from the Florida rally where he basically stated it was a slogan nothing more or watch the video in the link above where Trevor clip that part.  Either way, if Trump is draining the swamp, its only so that he can fill it with his own swamp monsters.  Have you even been paying attention to his administration.  The long game for Trump is to fill Washington with everyone that says yes to him without question and who will do anything including illegal things to get what he wants done.

Actually you do not know how well Trump business is doing because he refused to show his taxes.  Also just because he is a billionaire who inherited his money, you do not know how well he has managed that wealth.  What you can do is research on ever failed business he has done over his years and how he mismanaged them.  Or you can see how many times he has deceived, lied to partners to understand why no one in the US wants to work with him.  Ask yourself why no bank in the US will give him any money for any of his projects anymore.  Ask yourself how many times he has stiffed contractors for work done.  You look up to this man because he is a billionaire as if that makes him smart enough to deal with the complex issues that come in front of the President.  There is nothing in Trump's pass that shows he is capable.  If you want to go on the roller coaster of all the failures he has done for him to figure it out while people suffer under him experimenting then be my guess.

The media can't keep up for the most part, and when they get caught up, most of their 'news' doesn't stick, and for good reason.

Trump placed himself in the Russia probe? It was the last administration who got the right to spy on the Trump campaign because they thought he was a Russian pawn, based on their third party evidence. Comey told Trump he wasn't being investigated, but wouldn't officially tell that to the American people, yet Comey was more than happy to bring up Hillary. Double standards. Trump didn't like this so he fired Comey, along with other reasons, and the media took that as there must be something going on behind the scene's, because if Trump isn't part of the Russia probe, then why wouldn't Comey come out and say it? Ironically, Comey, the former head of the FBI, leaks 'info' to the media soon after, and then becomes another star to promote how Trump is such a horrible person because of the 'feelings' Comey had about him.

Predictions? Like how everyone on the left, and some on the right, thought Hillary would win by a landslide based on all the poles and predictions? Why assume anything has changed, considering the left leaning media is leaning even more left now than it was before already.

I like how the Vox article talks about how Trump kept saying the election was rigged and how that was such a bad thing, yet once he won it wasn't a problem anymore. Sounds a lot like how the left said the election wasn't and couldn't be rigged, yet ever since Trump won, it was because the Russians hacked/rigged the election and Trump is one of them. LOL

What is it that he wants done? Illegal? What if what he wants, is what's the best for the American people? Having a bunch of powerful 'yes men' to make that happen is a bad thing?

Some of Trump's venture's have failed. So what? He goes 'broke' only to become a billionaire again multiple times over. This can only be because he's a con man? Even if he was a con man, what kind of system do we live in that would continue to offer up money to this guy then? Why does nobody want to deal with Trump anymore? Well if his business is far from bankrupt, there must be plenty of people still working with and for him. You really think if his business was on the brink, that the media wouldn't be all over that? It's not hard to believe that everybody hates Trump and his business, when the media turn every single thing he does into something extremely negative. I've never met a single person who is even close to a 100% horrible, negative individual, and to become a billionaire, while you can be a bit of a douche, you would have to have some decency and credibility.

I have a buddy who's a farmer, another who's a mechanic, and recently I've helped them both figure out and fix problems they couldn't, or at least in the time we had to do it. While I grew up on a farm, I'm far from a farmer in terms of my overall knowledge, and while I've fixed mechanical devices growing up, I'm far from a mechanic, so how was I able to be so helpful? Your saying Trump has no political knowledge whatsoever, or what knowledge he may have, definitely can't be enough to fulfill his position? Not everyone's mind is restricted within a closed box. Plus, if we only had things like communication and email and social platforms, to help reach out to other people with problems and advice. Poor Trump.



EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

I believe we have a totally different viewpoint of Trump holding the media at bay.  If you are saying that no particular scandal, idiotic comment or diplomatic misstep stays in the media for long because they happen so often the media cannot keep up, I agree. 

You talk about the left going after Trump but from what I can see, its his own party going after Trump.  Do not forget it was Trump who place himself in the Russian Investigation by going on TV and saying he fired Comey on investigating him.  Stop trying to switch blame on others for his own stupid mistakes.  He goes into meetings with no clue what he is doing and have no clue to learn the job and his responsibilities.  Go read the excerpt from Woodard book.  You state the Dems are sinking but the predictions from even the Republicans is that they will probably take the house back.  If anything, that is not sinking and it goes counter to the President doing a good job with a strong economy.

Please do not even start with the "Drain the Swamp" slogan.  It was nothing more than a political tool just like "Lock her up" and a host of other crap he stated during the election.  Read this for some context.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/15/13966872/trump-lying-daily-show

You can also find the video from the Florida rally where he basically stated it was a slogan nothing more or watch the video in the link above where Trevor clip that part.  Either way, if Trump is draining the swamp, its only so that he can fill it with his own swamp monsters.  Have you even been paying attention to his administration.  The long game for Trump is to fill Washington with everyone that says yes to him without question and who will do anything including illegal things to get what he wants done.

Actually you do not know how well Trump business is doing because he refused to show his taxes.  Also just because he is a billionaire who inherited his money, you do not know how well he has managed that wealth.  What you can do is research on ever failed business he has done over his years and how he mismanaged them.  Or you can see how many times he has deceived, lied to partners to understand why no one in the US wants to work with him.  Ask yourself why no bank in the US will give him any money for any of his projects anymore.  Ask yourself how many times he has stiffed contractors for work done.  You look up to this man because he is a billionaire as if that makes him smart enough to deal with the complex issues that come in front of the President.  There is nothing in Trump's pass that shows he is capable.  If you want to go on the roller coaster of all the failures he has done for him to figure it out while people suffer under him experimenting then be my guess.

The media can't keep up for the most part, and when they get caught up, most of their 'news' doesn't stick, and for good reason.

Trump placed himself in the Russia probe? It was the last administration who got the right to spy on the Trump campaign because they thought he was a Russian pawn, based on their third party evidence. Comey told Trump he wasn't being investigated, but wouldn't officially tell that to the American people, yet Comey was more than happy to bring up Hillary. Double standards. Trump didn't like this so he fired Comey, along with other reasons, and the media took that as there must be something going on behind the scene's, because if Trump isn't part of the Russia probe, then why wouldn't Comey come out and say it? Ironically, Comey, the former head of the FBI, leaks 'info' to the media soon after, and then becomes another star to promote how Trump is such a horrible person because of the 'feelings' Comey had about him.

Predictions? Like how everyone on the left, and some on the right, thought Hillary would win by a landslide based on all the poles and predictions? Why assume anything has changed, considering the left leaning media is leaning even more left now than it was before already.

I like how the Vox article talks about how Trump kept saying the election was rigged and how that was such a bad thing, yet once he won it wasn't a problem anymore. Sounds a lot like how the left said the election wasn't and couldn't be rigged, yet ever since Trump won, it was because the Russians hacked/rigged the election and Trump is one of them. LOL

What is it that he wants done? Illegal? What if what he wants, is what's the best for the American people? Having a bunch of powerful 'yes men' to make that happen is a bad thing?

Some of Trump's venture's have failed. So what? He goes 'broke' only to become a billionaire again multiple times over. This can only be because he's a con man? Even if he was a con man, what kind of system do we live in that would continue to offer up money to this guy then? Why does nobody want to deal with Trump anymore? Well if his business is far from bankrupt, there must be plenty of people still working with and for him. You really think if his business was on the brink, that the media wouldn't be all over that? It's not hard to believe that everybody hates Trump and his business, when the media turn every single thing he does into something extremely negative. I've never met a single person who is even close to a 100% horrible, negative individual, and to become a billionaire, while you can be a bit of a douche, you would have to have some decency and credibility.

I have a buddy who's a farmer, another who's a mechanic, and recently I've helped them both figure out and fix problems they couldn't, or at least in the time we had to do it. While I grew up on a farm, I'm far from a farmer in terms of my overall knowledge, and while I've fixed mechanical devices growing up, I'm far from a mechanic, so how was I able to be so helpful? Your saying Trump has no political knowledge whatsoever, or what knowledge he may have, definitely can't be enough to fulfill his position? Not everyone's mind is restricted within a closed box. Plus, if we only had things like communication and email and social platforms, to help reach out to other people with problems and advice. Poor Trump.

Yes, Trump put himself in this current situation.  Just think back to why we even have Mueller doing  this investigation.  If you remember when Comey was fired, there was a letter of endorsement from Session and Rosenstein supporting the firing and they had the excuse for it all wrapped up in a nice bow tie.  Who was the idiot who decided to go on national TV and then admit he fired Comey off script because of the Russian investigation.  Really, how dumb do you have to be to give a gift like that to all his detractors.  In his urgency to want to take credit for firing Comey, he played himself and here we are now.  If the idiot kept his mouth shut, the whole thing would have gone away without even a whimper.  Comey did not have no where near the resources to go any further in the investigation and definite had the avenue like Mueller.

Trump has had 6 bankruptcies.  No matter how you slice it 6 is a large number.  Maybe 2 if you are a high risk person but 6 means you did not learn anything from the others and kept doing the same dumb crap over and over again looking for a different result.   Here is a link for you to see all the failed businesses in his career.  One thing that shines from this list is that Trump loves to start something but never commits long enough to make anything a success.  Once things get even a little bit south he packs up and drops out.  Just the type of person you want running the government.  High risk taker with no balls to make something work or the smarts.

http://gawker.com/a-complete-list-of-donald-trump-s-business-disasters-1764151188

The problem with having a bunch of yes men is that no one will tell him when he does not stupid.  They will not advise him when he is ignorant of a subject or does not understand the context of the situation and he does something stupid.  In other words, if all you want to do is not listen to anyone and do what you want without having any other views they he can just fire everyone else and hire aids to do his bidding.  Its what dictators do because their voice is the only one that needs to be heard.

For your last paragraph, I am not sure what that is suppose to mean.  Can someone without any experience help out with one or two issues in something they have no experience in probably so, can that person do all the the things that is required for that job without experience probably no.  Just because you are able to fix a problem doesn't make you a farmer but I am sure your input was appreciated.  What I am sure is that as a farmer, I would not hire you to run my business.  So yes, can Trump do some things with the experience he has yes, can he run the country with the experience he has, I would say no.  

What I am saying about Trump is not that he doesn't have any political knowledge, I am saying that he has not interest in understanding how to do his job.  He reveals in his ignorance and he always goes unprepared.  He doesn't take the job serious enough and he isn't willing to learn.  Why would anyone who hasn't even govern anything on any level just throw someone in the top political office and expect wonderful results.  Oh he is a billionaire so he should be good at being President, is that the logic.  You look at the dollar figure but not the 



Machiavellian said:

Yes, Trump put himself in this current situation.  Just think back to why we even have Mueller doing  this investigation.  If you remember when Comey was fired, there was a letter of endorsement from Session and Rosenstein supporting the firing and they had the excuse for it all wrapped up in a nice bow tie.  Who was the idiot who decided to go on national TV and then admit he fired Comey off script because of the Russian investigation.  Really, how dumb do you have to be to give a gift like that to all his detractors.  In his urgency to want to take credit for firing Comey, he played himself and here we are now.  If the idiot kept his mouth shut, the whole thing would have gone away without even a whimper.  Comey did not have no where near the resources to go any further in the investigation and definite had the avenue like Mueller.

Trump has had 6 bankruptcies.  No matter how you slice it 6 is a large number.  Maybe 2 if you are a high risk person but 6 means you did not learn anything from the others and kept doing the same dumb crap over and over again looking for a different result.   Here is a link for you to see all the failed businesses in his career.  One thing that shines from this list is that Trump loves to start something but never commits long enough to make anything a success.  Once things get even a little bit south he packs up and drops out.  Just the type of person you want running the government.  High risk taker with no balls to make something work or the smarts.

http://gawker.com/a-complete-list-of-donald-trump-s-business-disasters-1764151188

The problem with having a bunch of yes men is that no one will tell him when he does not stupid.  They will not advise him when he is ignorant of a subject or does not understand the context of the situation and he does something stupid.  In other words, if all you want to do is not listen to anyone and do what you want without having any other views they he can just fire everyone else and hire aids to do his bidding.  Its what dictators do because their voice is the only one that needs to be heard.

For your last paragraph, I am not sure what that is suppose to mean.  Can someone without any experience help out with one or two issues in something they have no experience in probably so, can that person do all the the things that is required for that job without experience probably no.  Just because you are able to fix a problem doesn't make you a farmer but I am sure your input was appreciated.  What I am sure is that as a farmer, I would not hire you to run my business.  So yes, can Trump do some things with the experience he has yes, can he run the country with the experience he has, I would say no.  

What I am saying about Trump is not that he doesn't have any political knowledge, I am saying that he has not interest in understanding how to do his job.  He reveals in his ignorance and he always goes unprepared.  He doesn't take the job serious enough and he isn't willing to learn.  Why would anyone who hasn't even govern anything on any level just throw someone in the top political office and expect wonderful results.  Oh he is a billionaire so he should be good at being President, is that the logic.  You look at the dollar figure but not the 

The reason Mueller is doing it now is because Trump does not get a pass for anything. If Trump turns his head to the left and sneezes the Dems scream impeach him. When everything you do is wrong, or doesn't seem wrong initially but has to be because your always wrong, then it must be investigated because well, your wrong, and annoying, and evil, etc. Mueller has been investigating Russia for how long now, and how much hard, reliable, evidence has surfaced about how Trump is surely tied to it, and how often does the media still bring it up regardless? I'm sure they would have just let it go back then, because why not right?

So Trump tried his hand at a bunch of different, totally unrelated business opportunities and failed at them? That's not be be expected? It's normal for people to be able to know and do anything they please? Where are the lists of everything everyone has tried and failed at, especially the 1%? Where is the list of things Trumps done right and succeeded at? Oh ya, I forgot, everything he does is wrong and he always fails, that's why he's still a billionaire and the President of a now booming economy. Maybe he's actually an even better politician than a businessman, and has been in the wrong game this entire time.

Based on the split in America right now, it seems pretty clear most are either with him or against him in the political sphere. Based on the info coming through the Gov itself, it's no different when it comes to the administration. If you can't find reasonable people to work with you, and every time you try to be as fair as possible and cater to the left and Dems, they go against you and bash you anyway, what other choice do you have? Pushing Trump into a corner of yes men is just as much the lefts fault as it is Trumps.

You aren't that far off my point. While a very small minority, there are some people who are good at many things, even if it's not their position, or can jump into something with little knowledge and learn quickly and adapt. These people also tend to be able to shake things up with new idea's because they think outside the box. Who says Trump isn't one of these people? I've worked with many other electricians during my career, and none of them could do everything, not even close, even the vets. On top of that, they only did things fully correct maybe 50% of the time, and the rest of was done good enough to work, but nowhere near the proper way and quality a specialized electrician would. Does this mean nobody should ever be hired for anything, or does everybody have to be completely specialized at just a few tasks? Do we need multiple Presidents? How many?

Why didn't Elon Musk just get a job with GM or Ford, etc? Why didn't Jeff Bezos just get a job with Walmart? Why didn't Steve Jobs just use a physical keypad? We all know how things  worked and there was no real reason to have anyone change them, especially so quickly, so why are these people so famous, respected, and doing so well? Minus Steve, RIP. Just because the Gov has been run a certain way for decades, doesn't mean it should stay exactly that way. Change is certainly necessary with everything, but in today's tech driven world, that change seems to come much too fast sometimes for people.