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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Should NS and wiiU be both labeled as 8th generation?

 

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Yes. 27 37.50%
 
No. 36 50.00%
 
Indifferent/comments/Who is America? 9 12.50%
 
Total:72
flashfire926 on 14 August 2018

Who the fuck even cares what gen the switch is. This is one of the most redundant debates I've ever seen.

How did this even reach 103 replies?



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ThatDreamcastTho on 14 August 2018
Mandalore76 said:
ThatDreamcastTho said:

Wrong. Dreamcast still had new retail games coming out in 2002. And many of the Xbox games after that were ports or cancelled releases of Dreamcast games.

Not wrong actually.  The Dreamcast has a Worldwide Discontinued date of March 31, 2001.  That's over 7 months before the Xbox launched in November later that year.  In fact, the announcement was made by Sega on January 31, 2001.  Any games made for the Dreamcast after the official discontinuation date are irrelevant to the fact that it's manufacturer had long since acknowledged that it had already withdrawn from the console market.  Therefore, it's not inaccurate to say that the Dreamcast never actually competed in the same marketplace with the Xbox.  

If the issue of generation was simply determined by dates of manufacture, it would be cut and dry which console was in which generation and this thread wouldn't even exist. I say it goes by what games appear on each console to determine generation. The switch has Valkyria Chronicles 4, Dragon Quest XI, etc. just like PS4 and/or Xbone do. WiiU had Ninja Gaiden 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, etc. just like PS3 and Xbox 360 did. Dreamcast had Skies of Arcadia, Evolution, etc. just like Gamecube did. Dead or Alive 2, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue 2, Space Channel 5 Part II, etc. also appeared on Dreamcast as well as PS2 or Xbox. 



ThatDreamcastTho on 14 August 2018
The_Liquid_Laser said:
Shadow1980 said:

@Bolded: The Saturn lasted longer than the Dreamcast with worse sales. The Wii U lasted longer than either of them. The fact is, the DC was on the NA market for a mere 18 months before it was discontinued (only 28 months in Japan). It was prematurely terminated before it had a chance to have a normal life cycle. I fail to see how that in any way challenges any concept of console generations. It was not a normal situation.

@Italicized. Because assuming a 2020 or 2021 release date for the PS5 and Xbox 4 the Switch will likely be at or past its peak. By late 2022, the Switch will likely be well on the way out, if it hasn't already been replaced yet. The Switch will have spent its prime years competing against the PS4 & XBO.

Now, if the Switch ends up being less front-loaded and longer-lasting than is the norm for Nintendo systems, I might be willing to change my stance. I won't argue that it's Gen 9, but I would say that it might too ambiguous of a case to neatly classify into one generation or the other, and that Nintendo systems, by running on a shorter cycle than PS & Xbox, might need to be excluded from the numerical generations (because it'll start to get ridiculous if we see people argue that Nintendo is already on Gen 10 a mere two years after the PS5 & Xbox 4 are out). But with the way things stand now, I don't see how anyone can classify it as anything other than Gen 8.

Generation is not based on the market leader.  Generation is based on the first successor to market.  Generations 4, 5, and 6 were also started by Sega consoles, because they were the first successors to enter the market place.  Sony and Microsoft do not define generation 9, because they did not have the first successor in the marketplace.  Switch is the successor to both the 3DS and Wii U (both generation 8 consoles).  Therefore generation 9 has already begun with the Switch.  

This is how generation is used in any other context as well.  When a couple has their first child, then they have begun a new generation in their family.  If they later have more kids, those kids are still in the same generation.  The first successor (in this case the first child) is what starts the next generation.

So by your reasoning, the Atari 5200 started the 3rd generation, the Atari 7800 started the 4th generation, and the Atari XE started the 5th generation? 



Miyamotoo on 14 August 2018
Random_Matt said:
8th gen, close thread.

I do find it funny though, why Nintendo fans are so desperate for it to be 9th gen, does it really matter that much?

Why do you think its 8th gen? Its very clear that Switch and Wii U cant be same gen because they are very different, much more different than GC and Wii for instance that are difrent gen consoles.

Its funny how Nintendo/Switch haters want to be 8th gen, does it really matter that much? :)



Dr.Vita on 14 August 2018

Both are 8th generation consoles. Why is this even a question anymore nowadays? Nintendo fans want it to be considered 9th generation but the facts say something different.

Last edited by Dr.Vita - on 14 August 2018


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Mandalore76 on 14 August 2018
ThatDreamcastTho said:
Mandalore76 said:

Not wrong actually.  The Dreamcast has a Worldwide Discontinued date of March 31, 2001.  That's over 7 months before the Xbox launched in November later that year.  In fact, the announcement was made by Sega on January 31, 2001.  Any games made for the Dreamcast after the official discontinuation date are irrelevant to the fact that it's manufacturer had long since acknowledged that it had already withdrawn from the console market.  Therefore, it's not inaccurate to say that the Dreamcast never actually competed in the same marketplace with the Xbox.  

If the issue of generation was simply determined by dates of manufacture, it would be cut and dry which console was in which generation and this thread wouldn't even exist. I say it goes by what games appear on each console to determine generation. The switch has Valkyria Chronicles 4, Dragon Quest XI, etc. just like PS4 and/or Xbone do. WiiU had Ninja Gaiden 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, etc. just like PS3 and Xbox 360 did. Dreamcast had Skies of Arcadia, Evolution, etc. just like Gamecube did. Dead or Alive 2, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue 2, Space Channel 5 Part II, etc. also appeared on Dreamcast as well as PS2 or Xbox. 

First off, you are confusing me stating that the Dreamcast never actually faced the original Xbox as a marketplace competitor, with me saying that the Dreamcast belongs in the previous gen of consoles.  I never said that.  I just acknowledged that the Dreamcast as a product was discontinued long before (9 months announced, 7 months actual) the first original Xbox was on a store shelf for sale.  Also, the games anaology isn't as cut and dry as you'd like it to be.  New consoles often share the same library as the consoles that preceded it for the first couple of years of its lifespan, and again with the consoles that succeed it during the last couple of years of its lifespan.

PS3 & PS4 games (shared games*)

Dragon Quest Builders
Dragon Quest Heroes 1 & 2
Persona V
Metal Gear Sold V:  The Phantom Pain
Metal Gear Solid V:  Ground Zeroes
Dark Souls II
The Last of Us
Transformers:  Devastation
Dragon Age:  Inquisition
Middle Earth:  Shadow of Mordor
Far Cry 4
Grand Theft Auto V
Dead of Alive V:  Last Round
Destiny
Godzilla The Game
Thief
South Park:  The Stick of Truth
Call of Duty:  Ghosts
Call of Duty:  Black Ops III
Call of Duty:  Advanced Warfare
Saint Row IV
Dynasty Warriors 8
Diablo III
Alien:  Isolation
Final Fantasy XIV:  A Realm Reborn
Payday 2
Rayman Legends
Assassin's Creed IV:  Black Flag
Need for Speed:  Rivals
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Wolfenstein:  The New Order
Watchdogs
Battlefield 4
Little Big Planet 3
WWE 2K15, 2K16, 2K17
NBA 2K14, 2K15, 2K16, 2K17
NHL 15, 16
Madden NFL 25, 15, 16, 17
MLB The Show 14, 15, 16
Fifa 14, 15, 16, 17, 18
Just Dance 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

*not a complete list by any means

Some of the games in the Dreamcast library were also on the Nintendo 64.  (South Park:  Chef's Luv Shack, WWF Attitude, NFL Quaterback Club 2000, NFL Blitz 2000, Ready 2 Rumble Boxing, Worms Armageddon,  Star Wars:  Episode 1 Racer, Hydro Thunder, etc...)



trent44 on 14 August 2018

---Gen 3---

1983 - Famicom
1985 - Sega Master System

~3 Year Gap~

---Gen 4---

1988 - Sega Mega Drive
1989 - Game Boy
1990 - Super Famicom

~4 Year Gap~

---Gen 5---

1994 - Sega Saturn, Playstation 1
1996 - Nintendo 64

~2 Year Gap~

---Gen 6---

1998 - Dreamcast
2000 - Playstation 2
2001 - GameCube, Xbox, GBA

~3 Year Gap~

---Gen 7---

2004 - DS, PSP
2005 - Xbox 360
2006 - Wii, Playstation 3

~5 Year Gap~

---Gen 8---

2011 - 3DS, PS Vita
2012 - Wii U
2013 - Playstation 4, Xbox One

~4 Year Gap~

---Gen 9---

2017 - Nintendo Switch

Makes the most sense thus far.

Now, (pertaing to the OP) once PS5 and XB4 launch, vgchartz might only have Nintendo Switch, PS5, and XB4 as the currently selling consoles to track sales for on the front page for some years on end.

Going from tracking 5 systems, to only tracking PS5 and XB4 would not make any sense.

As far as aligned analysis on vgchartz, Gapchartz has already taken a generational agnostic approach and is comparing the Nintendo Switch to Wii, DS, 3DS, and PS4, and will probably add PS5 and XB4 to that list of comparisons when that time comes.



The_Liquid_Laser on 14 August 2018
ThatDreamcastTho said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Generation is not based on the market leader.  Generation is based on the first successor to market.  Generations 4, 5, and 6 were also started by Sega consoles, because they were the first successors to enter the market place.  Sony and Microsoft do not define generation 9, because they did not have the first successor in the marketplace.  Switch is the successor to both the 3DS and Wii U (both generation 8 consoles).  Therefore generation 9 has already begun with the Switch.  

This is how generation is used in any other context as well.  When a couple has their first child, then they have begun a new generation in their family.  If they later have more kids, those kids are still in the same generation.  The first successor (in this case the first child) is what starts the next generation.

So by your reasoning, the Atari 5200 started the 3rd generation, the Atari 7800 started the 4th generation, and the Atari XE started the 5th generation? 

Well you are close but you are not quite there.

Atari 2600 started the 2nd generation.
Atari 5200 started the next generation which is called, "the video game crash of 1983".
The generation after that is generation 3.  Generation 3 is a special case, because the video game market was dead.  The NES created the market again from scratch so it really started generation 3.  (Succession only makes sense if there is actually something to succeed.)  Atari 7800 was part of this generation and it was released after the NES.
Generation 4 was started by the Genesis, because it was the first successor to market.
Atari XE was really more in their computer line instead of Atari's console line.  It was never meant to be a successor to the 7800.

Last edited by The_Liquid_Laser - on 14 August 2018

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Aeolus451 on 14 August 2018

It's technically a 9th gen home console since Nintendo already released the wii u for the 8th gen. Typically, new gens start when one of the big three release a new gen of their video game home console and not within a certain time period. Otherwise, one of them could release more than 2 home consoles within a certain time period and all of of them would count as that gen. That's silly.



Farsala on 14 August 2018

As it stands now in hindsight. I consider the Wii U as 7th gen along with the Wii. In the end it didn't become anything more when PS4 and XB1 launched. PS4/XB1/Switch are competing fiercely with each other so they are in the 8th gen.

9th gen has yet to launch.