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Forums - Nintendo - Why are third party games selling well on Switch?

zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

What are the sales of Rocket League, Undertale and Stardew Valley on Switch vs other platforms? Do you actually know that? Or are you just speculating that these games are selling sell on Switch compared to how they sold on PS4/X1/Vita/whatever? Because I can't find any even quasi solid numbers besides sales milestones,most of which aren't platform specific.

Ignore it? You haven't posted anything relevant. Great. These games at least made money on the Switch, but from what I can see, All of those games might have sold much  better on PS4 or X1 or Vita or PC. Even still, even assuming their Switch sales are legitimately impressive. That's three games out of thousands of third party games.  You might as well argue that the Wii U had good third party sales using such flimsy, pedestrian metrics.

Heck, take Minecraft,ZombiU and Just Dance. "Look how these three third party games sold on the Wii U! Third Party games definitely sold well on Wii U!" -  No one ever.

Yeah, I know that 500K sales can be a huge difference maker for a small indie studio of a couple dozen people. Great, you can list a couple dozen studios that are happy with a few hundred thousand sales, and no one lost their jobs. Good for them.. Still, that doesn't mean third party games are "selling well on the Swtich" just because you can list some examples of small studios that are happy with small sales.. You can find dozens of similar examples for pretty much every video game console made in the past 20 years. How does this mean anything.

What exactly are you even arguing about? We have had multiple developers/publishers state they are very happy with their games sales on Switch which is much better than using arbitrary numbers to decide if a game has sold well.

If 3rd party games werent selling well than support would be shrinking, not growing like it is from all types of devs.

You can find multiple third party developers publishers that are/were very happy with their game sales on Vita, Wii U, and pretty much every platform that has allowed developers to develop low budget games at low prices. Which means this argument gives zero credibility to the notion that "third party games are selling well on Switch". There's always going to be developers and publishers that are happy with the sales of games on <insert platform here>

Well it's growing for some devs, while holding steady one other devs, and declining for some other devs. You're only focusing on the developers where support is growing and acting like it represents the average third party developer.



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Nintendo doesn't need third parties in the same way Sony and MS. Without third parties, Sony or MS wouldn't even be able to sell 15 million units. They do all the heavy lifting on the XBox and Playstation platforms.

Having a healthy third party ecosystem is good enough for Nintendo, it's not about matching Sony/MS, Sony/MS can't match Nintendo's 1st party, if they had to sell a system based on their own titles and not being carried by third parties they'd be out of the business in 3-4 years.

Switch has a chance to carve out a nice third party ecosystem because the demographics of the system are older, the ability to play console style games on the go is an attractive feature for any game pretty much, etc. etc. 

There's only been two real notable Switch 3rd party exclusives ... Octopath and Bomberman R (well one year exclusive) and both are going to sell a million copies. You look at the eShop rankings on the Switch for any territory and they are often dominated by 3rd party titles (I'd say usually 70% of the titles are 3rd party). That's not bad at all. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 12 August 2018

There was no benefit to 3P ports on a Nintendo console prior. Garbage online and graphics on par or worse isn't exactly an incentive. Portability won't save every release though (side eye to Wolf II).



potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:

What exactly are you even arguing about? We have had multiple developers/publishers state they are very happy with their games sales on Switch which is much better than using arbitrary numbers to decide if a game has sold well.

If 3rd party games werent selling well than support would be shrinking, not growing like it is from all types of devs.

You can find multiple third party developers publishers that are/were very happy with their game sales on Vita, Wii U, and pretty much every platform that has allowed developers to develop low budget games at low prices. Which means this argument gives zero credibility to the notion that "third party games are selling well on Switch". There's always going to be developers and publishers that are happy with the sales of games on

Well it's growing for some devs, while holding steady one other devs, and declining for some other devs. You're only focusing on the developers where support is growing and acting like it represents the average third party developer.

As a whole 3rd party support is increasing, so yes i can say that in general 3rd party games are selling well on Switch.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Alkibiádēs said:
potato_hamster said:

What are the sales of Rocket League, Undertale and Stardew Valley on Switch vs other platforms? Do you actually know that? Or are you just speculating that these games are selling sell on Switch compared to how they sold on PS4/X1/Vita/whatever? Because I can't find any even quasi solid numbers besides sales milestones,most of which aren't platform specific.

Ignore it? You haven't posted anything relevant. Great. These games at least made money on the Switch, but from what I can see, All of those games might have sold much  better on PS4 or X1 or Vita or PC. Even still, even assuming their Switch sales are legitimately impressive. That's three games out of thousands of third party games.  You might as well argue that the Wii U had good third party sales using such flimsy, pedestrian metrics.

Heck, take Minecraft,ZombiU and Just Dance. "Look how these three third party games sold on the Wii U! Third Party games definitely sold well on Wii U!" -  No one ever.

Yeah, I know that 500K sales can be a huge difference maker for a small indie studio of a couple dozen people. Great, you can list a couple dozen studios that are happy with a few hundred thousand sales, and no one lost their jobs. Good for them.. Still, that doesn't mean third party games are "selling well on the Swtich" just because you can list some examples of small studios that are happy with small sales.. You can find dozens of similar examples for pretty much every video game console made in the past 20 years. How does this mean anything.

We know from Steamspy how much many of these indie games sold on PC and Switch compares favorably. We also know indie games sell less on PS4 than on Steam. 

According to Steamspy Overcooked sold between 500K - 1M copies. On Switch the latest figure we have is 600K copies sold (and at a higher price to boot). 

Again, we're not talking about obscure indie games here, but indie games that reached an audience of millions of people like Rocket League, Stardew Valley, Undertale, Dead Cells, Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight, etc. are huge. 

Your Wii U comparison also makes no sense as third party support for the Wii U dropped off a cliff after the launch period while the Switch continues to get great third party support. Dark Souls Remastered, South Park: The Stick of Truth, NBA 2K19, Fifa 19, Warframe, Dragon Ball FighterZ and Doom Eternal are good examples of this. And LOL at the Vita comment. There's a reason why the Vita has such a lackluster library of games. 

Even the Rage 2 devs are looking into a possible Switch version: 

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/quakecon-rage-2-interview-1202902688/

What are the sales numbers for Switch for these titles? I can't find them. Also steam sales aren't the same as ps4 or xbox or even total PC sales. Then you make a generalization about how indies sell on PS4, and assume that generalization applies to the titles in question?

I thought you said you had facts.

Then you randomly bring up overcooked? You openly admit that at best we can assume that it sold less than it did on Steam. How did it fare on PS4 or Xbox? You have no idea.

My Wii U example is just fine. You mentioned 7 games. Seven Two of which are sports games, and four of which are ports/remasters of old games. Whoopdedoo. Notice how EA isn't bring any of its other sports games? Notice how Bethesda isn't bringing Fallout 79 to the Switch (or Fallout 4 for that matter) Notice how Ubisoft isn't bring Assassin's Creed, Ghost Recon, or any of its other major titles, and instead is bringing in the least resource heavy games they can bring like South Park?

The Vita has such a lackluster library of games, I agree, yet its getting sequels to games the Vita and Switch have in common that the developers have opted to not bring to the Switch. That has to be a hard pill to swallow that in 2018 there's even one developer that brought a game to both Vita and Switch last year that decided to go ahead with the Vita port instead of a Switch port for its next game in the series.

There's rumors that yet another Bethesda game might come to Switch? Hold the fucking phone, Batman! That's unbelievable! Well that just changes everything!



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zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

You can find multiple third party developers publishers that are/were very happy with their game sales on Vita, Wii U, and pretty much every platform that has allowed developers to develop low budget games at low prices. Which means this argument gives zero credibility to the notion that "third party games are selling well on Switch". There's always going to be developers and publishers that are happy with the sales of games on

Well it's growing for some devs, while holding steady one other devs, and declining for some other devs. You're only focusing on the developers where support is growing and acting like it represents the average third party developer.

As a whole 3rd party support is increasing, so yes i can say that in general 3rd party games are selling well on Switch.

It's amazing how low you're willing to set the bar.

Third party support for Wii U increased from its first year to its second year as well. Same goes for Vita. Did third party games sell well on Wii U and Vita?




potato_hamster said:
zorg1000 said:

As a whole 3rd party support is increasing, so yes i can say that in general 3rd party games are selling well on Switch.

It's amazing how low you're willing to set the bar.

Third party support for Wii U increased from its first year to its second year as well. Same goes for Vita. Did third party games sell well on Wii U and Vita?


My standards are fine, you're just making things up, Wii U & Vita support was best in the first 12- 18 months and got worse after that.

At this point Wii U was just getting kid/family titles and ok indie support while Vita had carved out a niche for indies and small-medium Japanese titles.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
potato_hamster said:

It's amazing how low you're willing to set the bar.

Third party support for Wii U increased from its first year to its second year as well. Same goes for Vita. Did third party games sell well on Wii U and Vita?


My standards are fine, you're just making things up, Wii U & Vita support was best in the first 12- 18 months and got worse after that.

At this point Wii U was just getting kid/family titles and ok indie support while Vita had carved out a niche for indies and small-medium Japanese titles.

I'm making things up? On what grounds?

"kid/family titles and ok indie support" that results in more third party game sales over the previous year is still an increase in third party support.
"indies and small-medium japanese titles" that results in more third party game sales over the previous year is still an increase in third party support.

Let's not forget that the world's biggest publisher, Activision/Blizzard has put out a total of two Switch games. EA, the second biggest publisher, will have put out its third Switch game when FIFA 19 comes out. Both of those companies supported the WIi U and Vita better in their first two years. In fact Activision/Blizzard put out 15 Wii U games it first two years, and EA put out six Vita games in its first two years.

You're just shifting the goalposts now so that "increase in third party support" only applies to the kind of games the Switch is getting.



RolStoppable said:
potato_hamster said:

I'm making things up? On what grounds?

"kid/family titles and ok indie support" that results in more third party game sales over the previous year is still an increase in third party support.
"indies and small-medium japanese titles" that results in more third party game sales over the previous year is still an increase in third party support.

Let's not forget that the world's biggest publisher, Activision/Blizzard has put out a total of two Switch games. EA, the second biggest publisher, will have put out its third Switch game when FIFA 19 comes out. Both of those companies supported the WIi U and Vita better in their first two years. In fact Activision/Blizzard put out 15 Wii U games it first two years, and EA put out six Vita games in its first two years.

You're just shifting the goalposts now so that "increase in third party support" only applies to the kind of games the Switch is getting.

I'd like to see a list of those Activision and EA games for Wii U and Vita, plus a split into year 1 and 2.

Well it's a good thing you have the internet, and you can easily look these things up! Have fun!



Demographics + userbase are more important than existing support.

Its demographics and userbase. Switch has a demographic that is older and the userbase is growing rapidly as the system is selling as fast as the PS4 did.

EA and Activision will come around so long as Switch has good demographics, good userbase, and the high rate of software sales on the platform. That's more important IMO, you need to build a foundation before you can build the house on top of it.

Wii did not build a good foundation for Nintendo because it was overly focused on casualware/shovel ware and once that trend went kaput, Nintendo couldn't build a future from that. Yeah its great that the Wii U did have some solid 3rd party content early on, but the brand was useless once people got tired of the mini-game craze. Switch is building Nintendo a more stable foundation on which they'll be able to build a nice house on. Even with Nintendo centric titles, the Switch is selling a ton of software, Xenoblade X is going to sell 1.5+ million, maybe over 2 million ... if a game like that can do that, there's no reason a Final Fantasy game (for example) can't do well on Switch.

It's not about EA and Activision support today ... that will increase as long as Switch continues to show good demographic + attach ratio + good sales in both the West + Japan.