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Forums - Sports Discussion - Why football failed to catch on in certain countries

HomokHarcos said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Source?

As for places 3-5, football is undoubtedly #1 and cricket has surely got to be #2, but that still leaves quite a few sports in the running behind them though. I don't think anybody's mentioned boxing or golf in terms of popular sports yet, but they've surely got to be up there too (probably not top 5, but a decent shout for top 10).

In terms of annual sporting events, the biggest are (according to this link).

1.UEFA Champions League Final
2.IPL Final
3.Super Bowl

But the IPL and NFL are probably mainly just due to huge ratings in one country. But other than football I don't know any team sports league that is popular throughout the world.

https://www.livemint.com/Sports/f0arJvs9Rpl4qRy7I4FQRP/IPL-Indias-T20-cricket-league-bats-for-global-sports-crown.html

Basing it on single events isn't really the best method. Americaball certainly isn't the 3rd most popular sport in the world, even if it does have the 3rd most popular final.

As for cricket, 1 country (India) no doubt does make up a huge chunk of it's popularity, but it's also popular in other countries such as England, South Africa, Australia & Pakistan. I don't know how much interest those non-Indian fans would have in the IPL, but they are still fans of the sport.

As for sports leagues being popular throughout the world, football is really the only sport widespread enough to actually achieve that. There's a bunch of other sports that are popular in various regions throughout the world, I assume top leagues from those sports could be too, although there's also the popularity of the domestic leagues to consider as well and if that too prevents other sports leagues from being popular throughout the world (or at least parts of it).

There's also sports that don't have leagues such as Tennis. There's some specific popular competitions there, but the best players also play throughout the world at various times so fans could just wait to see top players at local events rather than just watching the grand slams.

Last edited by Ka-pi96 - on 24 July 2018

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pokoko said:
mZuzek said:

But you really shouldn't be judging the quality of the game based on a competition made up of 32 quickly put together teams with no cohesion or strategy. Seriously, while the World Cup might be exciting and it's obviously the biggest event, it's nowhere near as good as the top club competitions.

That's probably true but in the US, the World Cup is always presented as "the best players on the biggest stage" and is usually going to be the biggest source of exposure for a potential new fan.  Good or bad, it's going to be the deciding factor much of the time.  It's the product that other products will be judged against.  As for the European leagues, most people aren't going to even know where to start.  It's not like there is an obvious and definitive place for the best talent like the NFL or NBA.  The Premier League is probably the only one US sports fans might know of by name, plus the occasional teams that are in the news a lot, like Real Madrid. 

Yes, this is true. Most people who aren't football fans will judge it based on the World Cup, because it is the biggest event and thus draws the most attention.

As for where to start with Europe, it's pretty obvious - the Champions League. It's the best football competition there is, though it is true that it's rarely too exciting before the quarter-final stage. It's what I started watching European football with as a kid, and through watching the Champions League I became a fan of Liverpool, and then started watching English football of course. The Premier League is definitely the best national league from a spectator point of view, upsets happen pretty often and you can rarely take anything for granted. Last season was pretty mediocre however, with most of the smaller teams foregoing bravery in favor of playing super defensive throughout the year. We can only hope that it doesn't continue like that - I guess there's a decent chance of that now that Liverpool showed everyone else that playing offensive is the way to beat Manchester City.



NightlyPoe said:
It's more surprising that it's as popular as it is in the world in general. When being a spectator, the main draws of a game are the ability to tell a narrative and for excitement to build with a climax. Of the five biggest sports in the United States I'd rank them as follows.

1. American Football: Easily the best narrative of any sport. The game can be sub-divided into three separate categories mini-dramas on almost every play. The need to get 10 yards in 3 plays to continue a drive, the narrative builds as the make-or-break 3rd down approaches. Where the team is on a drive, the closer to scoring the team is, the more exciting the play, and the overall score within the game. And, of course, there are big plays that happen within the narrative that scramble the whole story.

No other sport comes close to this level of narrative brilliance, and that's why it has eclipsed the others.

2. Baseball: Surprised to see this so high? You shouldn't be. Baseball is highly underrated as a spectator sport. Like football, it has a rising narrative and multiple dramas within each pitch. The tone of the game changes based on whether the count is 0-1 or 3-1. Whether someone is on base, how many outs there are. It's more nuanced than football, so it requires a bit more knowledge, which drops it well behind the other sport.

Tied for 3rd: Basketball and Hockey:

Ironically, these are the two fastest-paced games of the five, but they both have huge deficiencies in their design.

Basketball's flaw is that a goal is worth so little. You could watch a player make the most amazing play ever, and it'll still only be worth two points. Roughly 1/50th of what's needed to win a game. You get a lot of them, but there's more of a feeling of watching whose point total can go up faster than a sense of who is really doing better. If a team wins by a typical score of 105-95. What does that make them? 10% better? A few, almost random makes and misses that seemed meaningless when it happened and that score is overturned.

Hockey might well be my favorite, but its flaw is that the scoring feels almost random. It's hard to know when a goal is going to be scored or the goalie is going to make a save. There are a decent number of goals per game, which is good, but outside of powerplays, it's hard to know when to expect them. Spectators are left to cheer when something happens instead of expecting something to happen and occasionally being blindsided by a big play. Instead it's all or nothing.

5. Soccer: Oh boy, this is bad. Take all of hockey's flaws, make the game slower, lower scoring, and toss in the dumbest rule in sports, the soccer offsides rule, which inspires bad defense so that the ref can bail them out (toss the rule out once they get to the top of the box guys), grown men crying on the ground for minutes at a time as a delaying tactic, and a weirdly all or nothing penalty system. 90 minutes and pretty much nothing can happen until it randomly does. Because the goals are spaced so far apart and come so out of the blue, there's really no edge of your seat excitement until just moments before it happens. So you're watching a long, boring game, punctuated by a few moments. It's the worst of all worlds and by far the least exciting sport to watch as a spectator.

I agree. Football (or soccer) is the laziest sport, imo, as well as very flawed in multiple ways. Plus, FIFA is the worst sports top level organisation in my opinion in so many levels.

Any North American sport is more enjoyable than soccer in my opinion.

I'd stick to Baseball all day every day, my favourite.

 

 

pokoko said:
I'm not nearly as much of a sports fan as in the past but there was once a time that ESPN was basically all I watched. I grew up with American Football and Basketball (mostly college before the NBA) and have always enjoyed both. I didn't watch Baseball as a kid but I learned to like it well enough and appreciate certain aspects a lot. I'd never even seen an NHL game until middle school but when I did, I liked it almost immediately and became a big fan for awhile.

Likewise, when the big push for Soccer started in the US, I turned my attention in that direction. That would have been one of the World Cups, the one with the Vuvuzela. We had it playing all the time at work so I got to see plenty of matches. Unfortunately, in a first for major sports, it failed to capture my attention at all. I found myself hoping for another ridiculous flop or that the cameras would continue to pick out pretty girls in the audience.

When you stack it up against the other prominent sports in the United States and Canada, I think it's simply not as entertaining. All things being equal, I believe that the reason it hasn't caught on here is that the competition offers better options in different ways.

I hope soccer never catches on. Seeing North Americans falling in love with this superficial sport would be sad for me. Totally dumbing down...



God bless You.

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outlawauron said:
NightlyPoe said:
It's more surprising that it's as popular as it is in the world in general. When being a spectator, the main draws of a game are the ability to tell a narrative and for excitement to build with a climax. Of the five biggest sports in the United States I'd rank them as follows.

1. American Football: Easily the best narrative of any sport. The game can be sub-divided into three separate categories mini-dramas on almost every play. The need to get 10 yards in 3 plays to continue a drive, the narrative builds as the make-or-break 3rd down approaches. Where the team is on a drive, the closer to scoring the team is, the more exciting the play, and the overall score within the game. And, of course, there are big plays that happen within the narrative that scramble the whole story.

No other sport comes close to this level of narrative brilliance, and that's why it has eclipsed the others.

2. Baseball: Surprised to see this so high? You shouldn't be. Baseball is highly underrated as a spectator sport. Like football, it has a rising narrative and multiple dramas within each pitch. The tone of the game changes based on whether the count is 0-1 or 3-1. Whether someone is on base, how many outs there are. It's more nuanced than football, so it requires a bit more knowledge, which drops it well behind the other sport.

Tied for 3rd: Basketball and Hockey:

Ironically, these are the two fastest-paced games of the five, but they both have huge deficiencies in their design.

Basketball's flaw is that a goal is worth so little. You could watch a player make the most amazing play ever, and it'll still only be worth two points. Roughly 1/50th of what's needed to win a game. You get a lot of them, but there's more of a feeling of watching whose point total can go up faster than a sense of who is really doing better. If a team wins by a typical score of 105-95. What does that make them? 10% better? A few, almost random makes and misses that seemed meaningless when it happened and that score is overturned.

Hockey might well be my favorite, but its flaw is that the scoring feels almost random. It's hard to know when a goal is going to be scored or the goalie is going to make a save. There are a decent number of goals per game, which is good, but outside of powerplays, it's hard to know when to expect them. Spectators are left to cheer when something happens instead of expecting something to happen and occasionally being blindsided by a big play. Instead it's all or nothing.

5. Soccer: Oh boy, this is bad. Take all of hockey's flaws, make the game slower, lower scoring, and toss in the dumbest rule in sports, the soccer offsides rule, which inspires bad defense so that the ref can bail them out (toss the rule out once they get to the top of the box guys), grown men crying on the ground for minutes at a time as a delaying tactic, and a weirdly all or nothing penalty system. 90 minutes and pretty much nothing can happen until it randomly does. Because the goals are spaced so far apart and come so out of the blue, there's really no edge of your seat excitement until just moments before it happens. So you're watching a long, boring game, punctuated by a few moments. It's the worst of all worlds and by far the least exciting sport to watch as a spectator.

Baseball is so far behind Basketball as the 2nd most popular sport. There's literally no metric or data to support the notion of it being more popular than basketball.

What's even more laughable is that you tied it with hockey. You must live in an area where baseball and hockey are popular as they're both regional sports. Not national sports. Basketball is popular everywhere and does big numbers. Baseball is very popular in the market where the team is, and hockey is popular in specific pockets of the country. 

ETA: If this is just a rank of your personal preference, then by all means. Baseball is worst sport to watch on TV, and is enjoyable in person. That's about my extent. I don't even think my hardcore baseball fan friends enjoy watching a full game of baseball on TV.

I reckon you ought to look it up a bit more. Baseball is not behind Basketball.

About being the worst sport to watch, it depends. Baseball is "slow" but lots of people like it "slow". Besides Baseball is a "easy watching" sport. You can watch it the way you want, eating, talking and you're not going to miss anything, like in fast paced sports where you can't take your eyes out of the TV. A ball game has also many sections and you can pay attettion to what you like instead of everything. You also can enjoy the start of the game, with the starter pitcher or the end game with the bullpen where the game can get very wild. Baseball also can start on 8-1 and then turn to 8-11 easily, which is really exciting. Happens all the time.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


wrong thread sry.

Last edited by Barozi - on 24 July 2018

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pokoko said:
mZuzek said:

But you really shouldn't be judging the quality of the game based on a competition made up of 32 quickly put together teams with no cohesion or strategy. Seriously, while the World Cup might be exciting and it's obviously the biggest event, it's nowhere near as good as the top club competitions.

That's probably true but in the US, the World Cup is always presented as "the best players on the biggest stage" and is usually going to be the biggest source of exposure for a potential new fan.  Good or bad, it's going to be the deciding factor much of the time.  It's the product that other products will be judged against.  As for the European leagues, most people aren't going to even know where to start.  It's not like there is an obvious and definitive place for the best talent like the NFL or NBA.  The Premier League is probably the only one US sports fans might know of by name, plus the occasional teams that are in the news a lot, like Real Madrid. 

Speaking of the news, I also think Football has a bit of an identity problem in the US, as many of the footballers that get talked about a lot seem to be floppers or jerks.  Part of that is the media latching on to negative press but it also has to do with a lack of unified marketing.

If you want to see the most disputed league in the world watch the brazilian league.

Every year before the start of the championship and even during the first games there are between 5 to 15 teams considered with real chances to win the title (average 10), while most other sports or leagues you'll have like a very dominant team (be it Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spanish football, rarely another team will win the championship), be it American Football with Patriots already expected to win before starting the competition, be it Tennis or F1...

https://www.mg.superesportes.com.br/app/noticias/futebol/futebol-internacional/2017/05/27/noticia_futebol_internacional,404260/comparado-a-ligas-da-europa-brasileirao-confirma-ser-o-mais-dificil.shtml

https://esportes.estadao.com.br/noticias/futebol,brasileirao-o-campeonato-mais-equilibrado-do-mundo,70001777734

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 24 July 2018

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DonFerrari said:
pokoko said:

That's probably true but in the US, the World Cup is always presented as "the best players on the biggest stage" and is usually going to be the biggest source of exposure for a potential new fan.  Good or bad, it's going to be the deciding factor much of the time.  It's the product that other products will be judged against.  As for the European leagues, most people aren't going to even know where to start.  It's not like there is an obvious and definitive place for the best talent like the NFL or NBA.  The Premier League is probably the only one US sports fans might know of by name, plus the occasional teams that are in the news a lot, like Real Madrid. 

Speaking of the news, I also think Football has a bit of an identity problem in the US, as many of the footballers that get talked about a lot seem to be floppers or jerks.  Part of that is the media latching on to negative press but it also has to do with a lack of unified marketing.

If you want to see the most disputed league in the world watch the brazilian league.

Every year before the start of the championship and even during the first games there are between 5 to 15 teams considered with real chances to win the title (average 10), while most other sports or leagues you'll have like a very dominant team (be it Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spanish football, rarely another team will win the championship), be it American Football with Patriots already expected to win before starting the competition, be it Tennis or F1...

Brazilian league is extremely unpredictable but it isn't high quality.



DonFerrari said:
pokoko said:

That's probably true but in the US, the World Cup is always presented as "the best players on the biggest stage" and is usually going to be the biggest source of exposure for a potential new fan.  Good or bad, it's going to be the deciding factor much of the time.  It's the product that other products will be judged against.  As for the European leagues, most people aren't going to even know where to start.  It's not like there is an obvious and definitive place for the best talent like the NFL or NBA.  The Premier League is probably the only one US sports fans might know of by name, plus the occasional teams that are in the news a lot, like Real Madrid. 

Speaking of the news, I also think Football has a bit of an identity problem in the US, as many of the footballers that get talked about a lot seem to be floppers or jerks.  Part of that is the media latching on to negative press but it also has to do with a lack of unified marketing.

If you want to see the most disputed league in the world watch the brazilian league.

Every year before the start of the championship and even during the first games there are between 5 to 15 teams considered with real chances to win the title (average 10), while most other sports or leagues you'll have like a very dominant team (be it Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spanish football, rarely another team will win the championship), be it American Football with Patriots already expected to win before starting the competition, be it Tennis or F1...

I can't say I've ever seen any Brazilian football, but if we're talking most competitive leagues in the world then I think the English Championship deserves a mention too. That's definitely a competitive one that's very hard to call before the season starts. Helped by the fact it's not a top division so the top teams aren't in it anymore the next season, but even the relegation places are very hard to call so it's not just the top end.



NightlyPoe said:
snip

I honestly feel totally the opposite, as I think football has the best pacing and more dynamism around it, maybe just behind basketball, but my issue with the latter is precisely what you mention, the little impact that each score makes, not to mention that fairly frequently that the first team that gets with 3-4 point lead in the first quarter, is usually the one that's going to win. Ultimately, this might point out that I'm biased for the things I look out in the sports I watch, but it is how it is, I guess. 

Among the most appealing aspects for me in football are the buildups and, while there are certainly relatively few for 1:30 hour games, the offensive plays. Buildups, watching how the teams decide to approach the rival area, the tricks they develop along the line, detecting when one the teams start conceding the ball after they were the dominating one for the first half-hour, the reactions of the team that just conceded a goal, watching how teams get rid of overwhelming offense. This is stuff that happens in a 1:30 game that only has a 15 minute interruption, thus you generally can see these transitions happening right on the field. This also has led me to believe that, while football is generally less exciting than other sports, is regularly more entertaining. But of course, nothing compares to when anyone scores a good goal, and when goals happen, the tone of the matches regularly change for one way or another for the rest of the match. 

American football comes as a close second in my preferances, but all these pauses that happen each time a team scores, when they request TO or something else happens, it just ruins the flow of the matches if you ask me. But it's not too much behind of football, actually, and many of the things that can happen in an American football are certainly frequently more exciting than anything else you can see in other sports. 

In reality, I think football, American football, basketball and hockey are all almost equally entertaining to watch on their own rights, they have their own issues each one of them but they all can create very dramatic moments from occasion to occasion. However, the one that I simply cannot tolerate is baseball. I've played it and been to plenty of games, not to mention that my grandfather loves it, but I just can't get around it. It's a 3 hour (or sometimes even longer) match that constantly gets stuck in fouls and balls, and when the batter finally makes its thing, there's a great chance the ball it's going to end on out. Beyond that, I tottally despise that on TV they make commercial pauses after each turn, a similar issue that I have with American football, it makes the matches to feel way slower than they already are. Of course, when things get real in baseball, it gets seriously real, full bases or a tied/close game in the late inns, but these don't happen as much as I'd like to.



HomokHarcos said: 

Ireland: Due to Anglophobia, native sports such as curling and Gaelic football were promoted by Irish nationalists.
Canada: The cold climate lead to ice hockey becoming the dominant sport.
United States: Baseball was the first major professional sport, American football became the dominant sport and basketball became the urban sport of participation.
India: Cricket became popular in India due to consistent competition with commonwealth countries such as England and Australia from their test nation status.
Australia: Due to Australia's physical isolation, the native sport of Australian rules became popular. Cricket remained popular due to a similar reason as India.

I know he didn't explain Japan in the video, but baseball became the dominant sport there because Americans brought the sport there and baseball became the main game at university campuses.

He probably didn't mention Japan because, even if it's not the most popular sport there, it does have a good level of popularity. The national team have won the continental tournament repeatedly and they do have a level of success at the World Cup. Also a number of star players, such as Inestia and Torres have moved there in their twilight years.