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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel: the new face of apartheid - Discuss

DonFerrari said:
Flilix said:
Israel has been a problem for decades. The change to a fully Jewish state isn't really a big deal, but it's yet another step in the wrong direction. There have been a lot of these steps recently, and it's getting very worrisome now.

As long as Europe and the US keep defending the Jewish people instead of trying to be neutral, the situation won't get any better.

Why a step in the wrong direction?

Is there any Arabian country embracing and opening to Jews?

It's step in the wrong direction because it's very provoking, the tensions will keep growing.

The Palestinians have lived in this region for centuries. Then suddenly, foreign nations decide that they have to give a part of their land to the Jews. Then, these Jews start taking away more and more of their remaining land, and start oppressing them. The Palestinians are now forced to live in the small overpopulated pieces of land that they have left.

Your question just doesn't make any sense. This situation only exists in Israel/Palestine, nowhere else.

Mystro-Sama said:
Flilix said:
Israel has been a problem for decades. The change to a fully Jewish state isn't really a big deal, but it's yet another step in the wrong direction. There have been a lot of these steps recently, and it's getting very worrisome now.

As long as Europe and the US keep defending the Jewish people instead of trying to be neutral, the situation won't get any better.                             

Thats next to impossible considering zionists control the government and banking sector of these countries. Thats why Israel will always get a free pass regardless of the atrocities they commit.

I doubt they really have that much power, but it's definitely true that Jews are a lot more respected in the West (especially in the US) than Muslims.

However, that doesn't mean that nothing can change. Trump has made it very clear that he favours Israel over Palestine (for obvious reasons), but hopefully the next president is a bit more rational and peaceful.



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Jumpin said:
Mystro-Sama said:

Thats next to impossible considering zionists control the government and banking sector of these countries. Thats why Israel will always get a free pass regardless of the atrocities they commit.

It has nothing to do with "Zionists controlling the government and banks." - that's simply not the case. The US is clearly the main supporter of Israel. Within the US, the faction mostly pushing for this is very clearly religious right.

If you have ever discussed religion with American conservatives, you'll find three things.

1. They are pro-crusades, and Israel is kind of a modern crusader kingdom. While Europeans (and most of the rest of the world) find the crusades something between a shameful act of the Christian religion to a atrocity of our ancestors - the conservative  Americans are very positive about the crusades.
2. Most Conservative Americans are biblical literalists - they believe the world is 4-6000 years old, that evolution and science are generally fake, and that  the Apocalypse is coming. A growing number ohave also been aggressively preaching that the world is flat, and that the reason why we think it is round is due to a conspiracy by their own government in combination with everyone else.
3. While they call themselves Christians, they primarily follow the old testament. By "follow Jesus" it seems their interpretation is merely to "believe Jesus existed" and not to actually follow any of his teachings. Rather they follow the old testament teachings, ironically, in the same way the Pharisees followed them - the very people Jesus rebelled against, and spent like 40 pages of the Gospels lambasting as hypocrites, evil, and the spawn of Satan.

Basically, the US government is FULL of these Conservative sorts, primarily in the Republican party. They are pro-Zionism because Israel is proxy for a crusader Kingdom. While they would be happier if it were a Christian state, they find it perfectly acceptable at it being a Jewish state, particularly because their bibles have the Jewish people owning Israel - even when today's Jewish people barely resemble the Sadducees of the biblical era in culture or genetics (actually, the Palestinians are closer in both accounts). It's kind of ironic because many of these pro-Israel Conservatives are kind of anti-Semitic, Ann Coulter is a perfect example.

Do you have any source to prove your 3 claims?

I’m considered conservative using the binary us classification (more like minarquist or uk classic liberal) and atheist. Funny right?

Flilix said:
DonFerrari said:

Why a step in the wrong direction?

Is there any Arabian country embracing and opening to Jews?

It's step in the wrong direction because it's very provoking, the tensions will keep growing.

The Palestinians have lived in this region for centuries. Then suddenly, foreign nations decide that they have to give a part of their land to the Jews. Then, these Jews start taking away more and more of their remaining land, and start oppressing them. The Palestinians are now forced to live in the small overpopulated pieces of land that they have left.

Your question just doesn't make any sense. This situation only exists in Israel/Palestine, nowhere else.

Mystro-Sama said:

Thats next to impossible considering zionists control the government and banking sector of these countries. Thats why Israel will always get a free pass regardless of the atrocities they commit.

I doubt they really have that much power, but it's definitely true that Jews are a lot more respected in the West (especially in the US) than Muslims.

However, that doesn't mean that nothing can change. Trump has made it very clear that he favours Israel over Palestine (for obvious reasons), but hopefully the next president is a bit more rational and peaceful.

Perhaps they don’t exist anywhere else because the Islamic countries doesn’t give any level of representation and respect to Jew? And Palestinians were there and lost land that they previously took from Jews? Is this one of those cases that is cool to bash Christians and Jews but we need to respect the culture of Islam?



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NightlyPoe said:
adidas198 said:

By that reasoning we Latinos can come to this country because for thousands of years we owned this land?

Are you under the impression that Latinos have existed for thousands of years?  Because they're a fairly new ethnicity.  For that matter, the Spanish didn't really settle much of the United States other than Florida before the 18th century and Mexico's longest claim of holding any United States land lasted only 32 years.

There is a big range of Latinos. Could be those that look European white or those that look like Native American. 



DonFerrari said:
Flilix said:
Israel has been a problem for decades. The change to a fully Jewish state isn't really a big deal, but it's yet another step in the wrong direction. There have been a lot of these steps recently, and it's getting very worrisome now.

As long as Europe and the US keep defending the Jewish people instead of trying to be neutral, the situation won't get any better.

Why a step in the wrong direction?

Is there any Arabian country embracing and opening to Jews?

Saudi Arabia and Israel are working quite nicely together to try to destabilise the region ❗With the help of the US, UK and other governments, of course. 



Aeolus451 said:
More lefties hating on Jews I take it?

I criticised Israel and it's government policy specifically. Maybe English isn't your first language, so I'll overlook that you weren't able to pick up on that nuance.



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CartBlanche said:
Aeolus451 said:
More lefties hating on Jews I take it?

I criticised Israel and it's government policy specifically. Maybe English isn't your first language, so I'll overlook that you weren't able to pick up on that nuance.

Israel is the Jewish nation. Lefties making nonsensical claims against Israel is  just more lefties hating on Jews.



It's sad that humans just don't learn from history. The same shit happens over and over again. I just hope that somewhere out there in this beautiful universe is some species that is more intelligent. I pretty much lost all hope in humanity in recent years.



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You want to talk about a place where Palestinians truly face Apartheid, look a bit north to Lebanon, where Palestinians are banned from many professions, banned from state education, banned from having health care, and forced to live in tiny overcrowded communities. But Palestinian suffering only matters when it can in some way be blamed on Israel, no matter whether the accusations against Israel are true or not.

Here is an article from one of the most virulently anti-Israel sites in the world talking about the discrimination against Palestinians in Lebanon.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/palestinians-lebanon-demonstrate-their-rights/8896

Get back to me when Israel starts revoking the citizenship of its 1.2 million Arab citizens, starts legally banning Arabs from any professions, or starts restricting the access Arabs have to hospitals. The new law does nothing to alter the legal status of non-Jews in Israel.

And for comparison, here is the new Israeli law in its entirety as well as the first 4 articles of the Palestinian Authority constitution.

Basic Law: Israel as the Nation State of the Jewish People
1 — Basic principles
A. The land of Israel is the historical homeland of the Jewish people, in which the State of Israel was established.
B. The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious and historical right to self-determination.
C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.
2 — The symbols of the state
A. The name of the state is “Israel.”
B. The state flag is white with two blue stripes near the edges and a blue Star of David in the center.
C. The state emblem is a seven-branched menorah with olive leaves on both sides and the word “Israel” beneath it.
D. The state anthem is “Hatikvah.”
E. Details regarding state symbols will be determined by the law.
3 — The capital of the state
Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.
4 — Language
A. The state’s language is Hebrew.
B. The Arabic language has a special status in the state; Regulating the use of Arabic in state institutions or by them will be set in law.
C. This clause does not harm the status given to the Arabic language before this law came into effect.
5 — Ingathering of the exiles
The state will be open for Jewish immigration and the ingathering of exiles
6 — Connection to the Jewish people
A. The state will strive to ensure the safety of the members of the Jewish people in trouble or in captivity due to the fact of their Jewishness or their citizenship.
B. The state shall act within the Diaspora to strengthen the affinity between the state and members of the Jewish people.
C. The state shall act to preserve the cultural, historical and religious heritage of the Jewish people among Jews in the Diaspora.
7 — Jewish settlement
A. The state views the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation.
8 — Official calendar
The Hebrew calendar is the official calendar of the state and alongside it the Gregorian calendar will be used as an official calendar. Use of the Hebrew calendar and the Gregorian calendar will be determined by law.
9 — Independence Day and memorial days
A. Independence Day is the official national holiday of the state.
B. Memorial Day for the Fallen in Israel’s Wars and Holocaust and Heroism Remembrance Day are official memorial days of the State.
10 — Days of rest and sabbath
The Sabbath and the festivals of Israel are the established days of rest in the state; Non-Jews have a right to maintain days of rest on their Sabbaths and festivals; Details of this issue will be determined by law.
11 — Immutability
This Basic Law shall not be amended, unless by another Basic Law passed by a majority of Knesset members.

Now for the Palestinian version

ARTICLE 1
Palestine is part of the large Arab World, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab Nation. Arab Unity is an objective which the Palestinian People shall work to achieve.

ARTICLE 2
The Palestinian People are the source of all power, which shall be exercised through the legislative, executive, and judicial authorities, based on the principle of separation of powers, and in the manner set forth in this Basic Law.

ARTICLE 3
Jerusalem is the Capital of Palestine.

ARTICLE 4
Islam is the official religion in Palestine. Respect and sanctity of all other heavenly religions shall be maintained.
The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be the main source of legislation.
Arabic shall be the official language.

Funny thing, the Israeli law doesn't establish Judaism as the official religion like Islam is established in the PA constitution, nor does it say anything about Jewish law, as opposed to the explicit mention to Shari'a law in the PA version.



NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:
This thread just makes me angry at humanity. I just want the damn war to be over at this point. Will the stupidity never end

Some things are worse than war.  Within the foreseeable future the only terms that would end the conflict would be the extinction of Israel.

So, you see, the end of the war would be a much greater failing of humanity.

I'm on the opposite scale here: I think we will see this end when Palestine no longer exists. At this point I don't care whether Palestine or Israel exists I just don't want oppression and conlifct to continue and innocents to die. Also I think rightfully this land is plaestine's since the British basically forced the Jewish state on their land when they could've basically chosen any land in the middle east. Palestine is not just Muslims, it's also native Jews and Christians but Israel was always formed as a Jewish state and that too provides an inherent flaw for me in Israel. It wasn't the local Jews that made Israel like how Muslims in India made Pakistan but rather European Jews that made it so



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Aeolus451 said:

 

CartBlanche said:

I criticised Israel and it's government policy specifically. Maybe English isn't your first language, so I'll overlook that you weren't able to pick up on that nuance.

Israel is the Jewish nation. Lefties making nonsensical claims against Israel is  just more lefties hating on Jews.

That is idiotic and non sensical. I'm convinced you don't really understand English and logic. When I criticise the US, am I criticising all the catholics, because the US is 1 nation under (a catholoc) god? That also means every time YOU criticise Iran, or any other middle eastern country, you are criticising the whole of Islam!! 

I suggest you may need to go back to school to learn about critical thinking and analysis and then how to come to logical conclusion, rather than the emotive one you current have, which is bereft of any logic.