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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Arlo - Addressing the Alleged Switch/Wii U Hypocrisy

 

Do you think the people praising the Switch's library are hypocrites for not praising/not buying the Wii U's library?

Nah, the Wii U Sucks. 23 58.97%
 
HYPOCRITES! Justice for the Wii U! 16 41.03%
 
Total:39
irstupid said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

There's a surprising amount of things in the Let's Go games that just water the entire formula down too much for my tastes. 

1. No field battles.

This may wind up making the game terribly short. I welcome the removal of random encounters, and much prefer field-on enemies as popularized in Chrono Trigger. But throwing Pokeballs is no replacement for fighting wild Pokes. Which brings me to my next point... 

2. Capture mechanics from Pokemon Go.

Sorry, but throwing Pokeballs just isn't fun. One of the things that makes Poke'mon so much fun is building your Pokedex IMO. But if the core mechanic for doing so is bad, then that makes a lot of the game bad.

3. There's no breeding. 

1. A blessing in disguise? IMO, the most annoying thing about Pokémon is grinding pokemon battles in the wild. What is so fun about wild battles? I never found them exciting. You just switch to a Pokémon that won't kill them, toss down a paralyze or something and then your tossing pokeballs. Formulaic boredom. Don't see this as any different, just cutting to the chase. Plus this game you see them in the wild, so you can SKIP the wild encounters instead of having to click run or use a repel.

2. Again, mechanic is not new. You had to throw pokeballs before, just had to do a tedious step beforehand and now you have to flick your wrist.

1. Every game ever has enemies that don't threaten you individually, and are just meant to slowly wear the player's resources down via collective attrition. Just look at the Grunts from Halo as a perfect example. JRPGs have been doing this to a fault for years. Even Chrono Trigger does it. All they changed was that the fights aren't random, and quite as frequent. But yeah, you're right about it being formulaic. Enter a battle, use a single move to KO the wild Poke'mon, rinse and repeat forever. If you feel like capturing said, Pokemon do what you said (but I rarely do this, because all I need is one fight to capture a Pokemon, and that makes the majority of my wild fights, just doing a one hit KO). But if something is formulaic wouldn't you want to add things to make it more rich and complex? Instead it looks to me as if they are taking things away, by oversimplifying the game. The next sentence is pure speculation, but I think they will give you missions to capture X number of Y species. This would keep the negative grindy aspects, while forcing you to play the "just throw Pokeballs repeatedly" aspect of Go. I mean, isn't carefully lowering a Mon's HP, and then inflicting a status effect, and then throwing a ball, more complicated and engaging than just "lol throw this ball and pray the RNG Gods like you enough to let you capture it." Again, I agree with you that both are formulaic. But one just seems more complicated, hence more fun IMO. 

And yes, like I said before, field-on enemies are way better than random battles. So I have no problem with Mon being visible in the field. That's an addition that Poke'mon has needed for ages. I just disagree with removing the battling aspect from wild Mons. 

2. But I only capture 10% of the wild Mons that I fight. And I'm one of those sticklers that likes to complete the Pokedex. So throwing balls wasn't really a big part of the games for me. But how do you play? Maybe your way of playing would benefit from all these changes. IMO it makes it boring for me. 



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The problem with Wii U was timing of releases more than anything.

The Wii U had a few really good games that could have been system sellers, but by the time they released, the Wii U was already labeled as a flop, and nobody was really interested. I wonder what would have happened if the Wii U launched with Mario Maker instead of NSMBU and Splatoon within the first few months.



Cerebralbore101 said:
irstupid said:

1. A blessing in disguise? IMO, the most annoying thing about Pokémon is grinding pokemon battles in the wild. What is so fun about wild battles? I never found them exciting. You just switch to a Pokémon that won't kill them, toss down a paralyze or something and then your tossing pokeballs. Formulaic boredom. Don't see this as any different, just cutting to the chase. Plus this game you see them in the wild, so you can SKIP the wild encounters instead of having to click run or use a repel.

2. Again, mechanic is not new. You had to throw pokeballs before, just had to do a tedious step beforehand and now you have to flick your wrist.

1. Every game ever has enemies that don't threaten you individually, and are just meant to slowly wear the player's resources down via collective attrition. Just look at the Grunts from Halo as a perfect example. JRPGs have been doing this to a fault for years. Even Chrono Trigger does it. All they changed was that the fights aren't random, and quite as frequent. But yeah, you're right about it being formulaic. Enter a battle, use a single move to KO the wild Poke'mon, rinse and repeat forever. If you feel like capturing said, Pokemon do what you said (but I rarely do this, because all I need is one fight to capture a Pokemon, and that makes the majority of my wild fights, just doing a one hit KO). But if something is formulaic wouldn't you want to add things to make it more rich and complex? Instead it looks to me as if they are taking things away, by oversimplifying the game. The next sentence is pure speculation, but I think they will give you missions to capture X number of Y species. This would keep the negative grindy aspects, while forcing you to play the "just throw Pokeballs repeatedly" aspect of Go. I mean, isn't carefully lowering a Mon's HP, and then inflicting a status effect, and then throwing a ball, more complicated and engaging than just "lol throw this ball and pray the RNG Gods like you enough to let you capture it." Again, I agree with you that both are formulaic. But one just seems more complicated, hence more fun IMO. 

And yes, like I said before, field-on enemies are way better than random battles. So I have no problem with Mon being visible in the field. That's an addition that Poke'mon has needed for ages. I just disagree with removing the battling aspect from wild Mons. 

2. But I only capture 10% of the wild Mons that I fight. And I'm one of those sticklers that likes to complete the Pokedex. So throwing balls wasn't really a big part of the games for me. But how do you play? Maybe your way of playing would benefit from all these changes. IMO it makes it boring for me. 

I also only catch one type of each pokemon, so my wild encounters are usually just running back in forth in grass for like 20 minutes to make sure I ran into every monster in the new area. The pokemon in the overworld will fix that tedius task.

But thinking about it, I'm actually kind of happy with this new catching method. I love how they have gotten rid of the HM slave with more recent pokemon, and with this new mechanic, it seems they have gotten rid of the catch slave. You know keeping a pokemon that has like false swipe, sleep, paralyze, trap move, ect. I always found I kept some pokemon in my team solely to match catching easier, or taught some move whose sole purpose was to help catch pokemon and worthless otherwise to a pokemon. So getting rid of that doesn't seem so bad, imo.

But sounds like both of us catch like what 150 pokemon total in this game. So is it so bad to have to use go's mechanics 150 times in a say 40 hour game. 

Even end game stuff in "true" pokemon games don't have you catching hundreds of the same one over and over. You just grab your pokemon with the trace ability that has the nature you want and catch the pokemon. You are basically guaranteed to get that nature then. If you're wanting a sex, you can see that before catching. At that point, you're just into the breeding then for IV's. The catching of pokemon is the most basic thing in Pokemon and something you do way less than you remember. 



irstupid said:

But sounds like both of us catch like what 150 pokemon total in this game. So is it so bad to have to use go's mechanics 150 times in a say 40 hour game.  

Poke'mon Go forces you to throw Balls repeatedly to catch the same Mon. Many times more than traditional games. So, I'm afraid that I'll be forced to use this mechanic ten times as much as you said, in a forty hour game. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether or not they force you grind via throwing balls all day, or not. Everything else I pretty much agree with you on. So, sorry for only quoting a single sentence. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 25 June 2018

Cerebralbore101 said:
irstupid said:

But sounds like both of us catch like what 150 pokemon total in this game. So is it so bad to have to use go's mechanics 150 times in a say 40 hour game.  

Poke'mon Go forces you to throw Balls repeatedly to catch the same Mon. Many times more than traditional games. So, I'm afraid that I'll be forced to use this mechanic ten times as much as you said, in a forty hour game. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether or not they force you grind via throwing balls all day, or not. Everything else I pretty much agree with you on. So, sorry for only quoting a single sentence. 

You mean that it takes more than one ball to catch a pokemon? How is that any different than now? I can sometimes go through 5-6 balls trying to catch a single pokemon. You know the classic tricks peopel think help them to keep th eball shakign 3 times. The hold b, repeatedly click b, click b at th erigh moment, ect.

Multiple balls is not new. I can't see this game forcing you to throw say 30 balls to catch a Pokemon. Now if you just start throwing instantly with no care, then yea sure maybe it will be hard. But they have berries to give pokemon, as well as the circle that varies in size that you can get better results. Also I think throwing a curve ball or something makes it better. 

Point is, just as in the core games where you weaken and enemy, status them and so on to make the catch rate better. Go's mechanics also have ways to make the catch rate better. If you ignore both, it can take many balls. If you don't weaken and enemy in the core games at all you could be throwing thousands of balls before you catch certain pokemon. The technique changed, but the core rules are the same. Instead of weakening/statusing, you perfect your throw.



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irstupid said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Poke'mon Go forces you to throw Balls repeatedly to catch the same Mon. Many times more than traditional games. So, I'm afraid that I'll be forced to use this mechanic ten times as much as you said, in a forty hour game. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether or not they force you grind via throwing balls all day, or not. Everything else I pretty much agree with you on. So, sorry for only quoting a single sentence. 

You mean that it takes more than one ball to catch a pokemon? How is that any different than now? I can sometimes go through 5-6 balls trying to catch a single pokemon. You know the classic tricks peopel think help them to keep th eball shakign 3 times. The hold b, repeatedly click b, click b at th erigh moment, ect.

Multiple balls is not new. I can't see this game forcing you to throw say 30 balls to catch a Pokemon. Now if you just start throwing instantly with no care, then yea sure maybe it will be hard. But they have berries to give pokemon, as well as the circle that varies in size that you can get better results. Also I think throwing a curve ball or something makes it better. 

Point is, just as in the core games where you weaken and enemy, status them and so on to make the catch rate better. Go's mechanics also have ways to make the catch rate better. If you ignore both, it can take many balls. If you don't weaken and enemy in the core games at all you could be throwing thousands of balls before you catch certain pokemon. The technique changed, but the core rules are the same. Instead of weakening/statusing, you perfect your throw.

I've never gone through more than 3 balls for a single Mon. But that's probably because I get their HP as low as possible, status effect them, throw the right ball type, etc.

If Let's Go can make it so you only have to throw three balls, after doing everything right, I'd be fine with that. But, I'm just afraid that it'll be the same grindy nonsense as the Phone games, where you just repeatedly throw 5-15 balls, only to have said Poke'mon break out, dodge, and then run away. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 25 June 2018

Nintendo fans hypocrites? Nah. That would take something drastic like Nintendo actually doing the dreaded online fee and them supporting it. They'd have too much integrity for that.



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I want to have an arlo podcast with all puppets.






The most logical argument possible is that Ninty gamers, being quite strange people, should have preferred Wii U by far.



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TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


DialgaMarine said:
I think the problem is that Sony and PS4 got a lot of criticism from Nintendo users about how they were putting out too many remastered early on in the gen, yet here we are and Nintendo is pretty much banking on Wii U ports after a decent first wave of exclusives. I mean, besides Kirby and the recent Mario Tennis, has Nintendo even put out a AAA Switch exclusive since SMO? Kindof disappointing, considering neither of games are quite up to par.

Actually PS4 got a lot of hate from almost (not all but almost all) Nintendo hardcore fanbase for everything. From Remake, Remasters, Story driven  first party games, exclusives ip have similarities whit each other , imitating product from Nintendo, and new fiasco about Fortnite cross play. While most of PS fans never hate Nintendo , including me, except for some of their fans. 

On Topic, actually i grateful that Wii U games are coming to Switch, I have a lot of games from  Wii U that i wanted to play. Remakes or not if the games great , why not.