Smash Ultimate has ten new characters that weren't in Smash 4. When's the last time a fighting game got ten new characters in one go, but was called a port?

curl-6 said: Nem said: That assertment is simply misleading. This is smash for Wii U enhanced and with new mechanics. It is painfully obvious. But if people wish to imagine it isn't, it's not my problem. It's not the first time i see people rejecting reality for a dream view. I mean it's even in the name... But, it is still a pretty good game and i personally love new versions of fighters with more content. Heck, this is not that different from MK8 deluxe. We saying that isn't a port either? It's an enhanced port. Want to be in denial, be my guest. It's not though, if it was just Smash Wii U Deluxe it would have all the same assets and basically identical mechanics. Neither is the case.

 

It IS. Stop it! I don't care what sort of console wars you guys see here, but this is not rocket science. It's in the bloody name. Are you saying that Ultra Street Fighter 4 was a new game? It had new assets and mechanics and new moves, therefore it was a new game! No! It wasn't! This is smash 4.5. It's not a bad thing. The last versions are always the best ones. What are you people complaining about? Does it need to be a new game for you to enjoy it?

Cerebralbore101 said: Smash Ultimate has ten new characters that weren't in Smash 4. When's the last time a fighting game got ten new characters in one go, but was called a port?

I actually don't think I'd call this a port, but Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 had 12 new characters, but was not considered a new game.  Street Fighter 4 also added about 12 or so characters between vanilla and ultra.  

Nem said: curl-6 said: It's not though, if it was just Smash Wii U Deluxe it would have all the same assets and basically identical mechanics. Neither is the case. It IS. Stop it! I don't care what sort of console wars you guys see here, but this is not rocket science. It's in the bloody name. Are you saying that Ultra Street Fighter 4 was a new game? It had new assets and mechanics and new moves, therefore it was a new game! No! It wasn't! This is smash 4.5. It's not a bad thing. The last versions are always the best ones. What are you people complaining about? Does it need to be a new game for you to enjoy it?

The name doesn't make it a port, just like this year's "God of War" having the same name as the 2005 game doesn't make it a port. Smash Ultimate has all the things that previous Smash games had over their predecessors; new characters and stages, new graphics, new mechanics. Do you consider Brawl a port of Melee?

Cerebralbore101 said: Smash Ultimate has ten new characters that weren't in Smash 4. When's the last time a fighting game got ten new characters in one go, but was called a port?

Playable characters. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 features the original 36 characters from Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds and introduces 12 new playable fighters. The six new Marvel Comics characters include Doctor Strange, Ghost Rider, Hawkeye, Iron Fist, Nova, and Rocket Raccoon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Marvel_vs._Capcom_3

You're comparing apples to oranges. You're all mentioning sequels that borrowed a few assets and maybe an engine, then created an entirely different game around that.
Smash Ultimate uses all of the assets from WiiU, modifies a few of them, changes a few of the gameplay mechanics, and then just adds a heap of content on top.
You can feel free to call it an enhanced remaster or whatever, but it's still the same base game.

curl-6 said: Nem said: It IS. Stop it! I don't care what sort of console wars you guys see here, but this is not rocket science. It's in the bloody name. Are you saying that Ultra Street Fighter 4 was a new game? It had new assets and mechanics and new moves, therefore it was a new game! No! It wasn't! This is smash 4.5. It's not a bad thing. The last versions are always the best ones. What are you people complaining about? Does it need to be a new game for you to enjoy it? The name doesn't make it a port, just like this year's "God of War" having the same name as the 2005 game doesn't make it a port. Smash Ultimate has all the things that previous Smash games had over their predecessors; new characters and stages, new graphics, new mechanics. Do you consider Brawl a port of Melee?

 

You just don't get it. It's the same engine, the same assets, the same characters, the same stages. It's the exact same base game with added mechanics. That is exactly what every new version of fighters does. See how ridiculous what you are implying is. You are saing every expanded fighter version is a new game. It is beyond ridiculous! The game isn't rebuilt from the ground up. That is what defines a true new version of a fighter. By your logic, GG Xrd Revelator is a new game because it has improved graphics from GGxrd sign, new mechanics and new assets. Ultra SF4 is a completely new street fighter for you aswell. The name is just the obvious hint you're not getting.

Nem said: curl-6 said: The name doesn't make it a port, just like this year's "God of War" having the same name as the 2005 game doesn't make it a port. Smash Ultimate has all the things that previous Smash games had over their predecessors; new characters and stages, new graphics, new mechanics. Do you consider Brawl a port of Melee? You just don't get it. It's the same engine, the same assets, the same characters, the same stages. It's the exact same base game with added mechanics. That is exactly what every new version of fighters does. See how ridiculous what you are implying is. You are saing every expanded fighter version is a new game. It is beyond ridiculous! The game isn't rebuilt from the ground up. That is what defines a true new version of a fighter. By your logic, GG Xrd Revelator is a new game because it has improved graphics from GGxrd sign, new mechanics and new assets. Ultra SF4 is a completely new street fighter for you aswell. The name is just the obvious hint you're not getting.

It is not the same assets, the graphics have been quite noticeably redone over Smash 4. Smash sequels have always reused content from previous games just with additional content, updated graphics, and tweaked mechanics. If this is a "port" then what makes Brawl a new game?

Hiku said: ...

I am clarifying my argument if you don't understand that's not really an issue of mine as you're trying to compare the addition of USFIV's mechanics to what's done in Ultimate and I'm pointing out the changes are not even close as the changes in ultimate are a whole new fundamental system and structure. Fundamentals is a universal term in the FGC it's the term for a game's whole overall universal system, structure and approach thus dictates the overall approach in how players conduct the game's mechanics, when you pick any character you play them in a certain way dictated by a game's fundamentals regardless of their concept for example Dhalsim is a defensive zoning character but he is played in a more mobile manner in SFV's fundamental system than prior games. None of what you have said or given as an example falls under fundamental change in SFIV what you're describing is the use of given options not a universal change in how players universally conduct mechanics and approach you're bringing up simple tweaks and balance changes in your examples and the new mechanic RF functioned like it's normal counterpart it was a new option which maintained the same fundamental ecosystem.

To give an example Yun your character didn't change in how you approached the game and conducted Yun and the game's mechanics I think this is the part you're having a hard time differentiating, Yun maintained his aggressive get in style and approach he had in SFIV from the start you just had a few more options in aiding it and this is where you're getting mixed up same with Rose we still played her in the same manner as before we just got a few more options you weren't forced to conduct the character in a different manner because the fundamental approach of SFIV remained the same this is not even in the same ball park as what Truck was talking about because with the changes he brings up force a whole new approach to how players conduct the universal mechanics.

An example of you not understanding what is being said is ironically your Marth comment in S4 Marth is not played aggressively Lucina is while Marth is played conservatively by controlling the neutral game to try and position yourself to strike with the tipper this is because the defensive options in S4 mean that Marth's weaker close range gets punished hard like you just get blown out and this is because the fundamentals in S4 are focused on the control of the neutral game to get kills the game is mechanically geared toward that it's not Marth as a character that causes this it's a fundamental design that results in the character needing to be conducted this way. In Ultimate how ever the changes overhaul how will be conducted because he has to go in on an opponent again to add more pressure to his game but this time his opponent has to do the same as well regardless of who they are this isn't a case of the game encouraging it like your Yun examples the whole game is built around it that's how you have to play with strategic aggression. The is less influence from controlling the neutral game like in S4 with mechanics like some of the Melee tech they've brought back allowing players to bypass attempts at controlling the neutral game in order for your example to compare to what Truck said RF would have to force a fundamental change in conduct like making all players have to rush down or such as an example.

curl-6 said: Nem said: You just don't get it. It's the same engine, the same assets, the same characters, the same stages. It's the exact same base game with added mechanics. That is exactly what every new version of fighters does. See how ridiculous what you are implying is. You are saing every expanded fighter version is a new game. It is beyond ridiculous! The game isn't rebuilt from the ground up. That is what defines a true new version of a fighter. By your logic, GG Xrd Revelator is a new game because it has improved graphics from GGxrd sign, new mechanics and new assets. Ultra SF4 is a completely new street fighter for you aswell. The name is just the obvious hint you're not getting. It is not the same assets, the graphics have been quite noticeably redone over Smash 4. Smash sequels have always reused content from previous games just with additional content, updated graphics, and tweaked mechanics. If this is a "port" then what makes Brawl a new game?

 

You tell me. I haven't followed the smash series development before the 3DS and Wii U versions. But, i'm a fighting game fan and can tell you what makes a game a version or a new game. A version reuses the assets. Ultimate reuses all the assets from Wii U. All the stages, all the fighters, all the animations, and adds on top of that. A new game is completely redone from the ground up. Did brawl reuse melee assets? I dunno. You tel me. Was it in the same engine? Did it have all of the same characters, animations and stages from the previous game? Somehow i doubt it did, and there you have your answer. Last edited by Nem - on 13 June 2018