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VGPolyglot said:
curl-6 said:

Not really a viable solution for many unfortunately.

A major component of incel is not just a lack of sex itself but also physical and emotional intimacy, and a feeling of being "good enough". You don't get that with prostitutes; they're not with you because they like you or think you're good enough, it's like printing a University degree off Google Images, you didn't earn it so it has no value. And it doesn't solve the intimacy issue either, in that respect it's like telling a starving person "here, eat this cardboard".

Well, it sounds like it's not the sex you crave then, it's friendships. While you may not be able to find a significant other, maybe you can make some really close friends that will help fill that loneliness that you have.

I have many friends. That's not the issue at all. The craving is for sex itself, for the accompanying sexual/emotional intimacy, and to be deemed worthy.



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curl-6 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, it sounds like it's not the sex you crave then, it's friendships. While you may not be able to find a significant other, maybe you can make some really close friends that will help fill that loneliness that you have.

I have many friends. That's not the issue at all. The craving is for sex itself, for the accompanying sexual/emotional intimacy, and to be deemed worthy.

How are you going to expect others to deem you as worthy when you don't even deem yourself as worthy though? It sounds like you need to improve your self-esteem first before anything else, though admittedly I struggle with the same thing.



VGPolyglot said:
curl-6 said:

I have many friends. That's not the issue at all. The craving is for sex itself, for the accompanying sexual/emotional intimacy, and to be deemed worthy.

How are you going to expect others to deem you as worthy when you don't even deem yourself as worthy though? It sounds like you need to improve your self-esteem first before anything else, though admittedly I struggle with the same thing.

I don't get to decide my worth as a sexual/romantic partner, that's something that other people dictate based on whether I meet their standards and preferences.



curl-6 said:
VGPolyglot said:

How are you going to expect others to deem you as worthy when you don't even deem yourself as worthy though? It sounds like you need to improve your self-esteem first before anything else, though admittedly I struggle with the same thing.

I don't get to decide my worth as a sexual/romantic partner, that's something that other people dictate based on whether I meet their standards and preferences.

Well, I guess it's something that I can't fully understand myself as I'm single, a virgin and am completely fine with my sexual situation at the moment. Sex just isn't on my priority list.



To the OP:

When I was 10 years younger, I used to play tennis with a man who was 60 years old. He asked me something. "Are you planning on having children?" I told him I didn't much like being around children, and that I may not have any. He laughed and told me something I still consider a good piece of wisdom. He said, and I'm paraphrasing because it was a long time ago, that all men reach an age in their life where they reflect back at what they've done with their life and what they will leave behind; a legacy of sort. For the majority of men, children is form of legacy, "What they left behind to show the world that they existed;" others go down in history for creating something, or achieving a goal in life, and lastly there are those few who go down in history doing evil deeds. I won't name anyone, but I'm sure you get the picture.

Now, when I talk to my friends, I understand many of the reason why they choose to settle down, or excel at their work, and I can sort of understand the sexual frustration of my male friends who don't have a goal in life but to get laid. I don't know if this will help you or anyone else out there, but It did for me.

I've never been much of a follower, but I'm not as smart, witty, funny, or dedicated of an individual to have an exotic life style, but I understand myself and my weaknesses. I think it's helped come into terms with my life expectancies, and I think that is important for every single male out in this American hypocritical society.



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Jumpin said:
Aeolus451 said:
Incels aren't MRAs or political. They're essentially an online community of guys who can't have sex or get into relationships for a variety of reasons. I think most of them are normal virgins and the socially awkward. Just interacting with more women would fix those.

There is a segment of incels that are the opposite of the man hating feminist. Society shouldn't ostracize them or conflate regular virgins with them because it will only make them worse and turn them into some kind of movement.

My encounters with MRAs have given me the impression that they're generally incels. The focus has very little to do with actual rights of men, but on the sexual advantage of women and their bizarre perception of a crazy "feminazi regime." While the MRA movement claims to support "fathers rights" - I generally do not see any actual fathers seeking child custody among their ranks; they claim to support a group of people who wants nothing to do with them - and even then, this is typically a small topic of discussion that only pops up from time to time because of the perceived support of their "women dominate us" agenda. In addition, there are a lot of racial things included, they don't seem to include blacks among their class.

They don't seem to have many men in their ranks, mostly boys in their teens and younger twenties. Not even close to the age that they would have actually had the life experiences that would actually send them demanding rights - because, for the most part, life is not even close to as tough toward men as they seem to think it will be. Their frustration comes from not having sex rather than any actual injustice against them: that's why their focus is so much on women's roles in society and not the status of men's rights; in other words, the MRA is their more "rational" ideological vent for young men not having sex.

(Note: I put the quotes around "rational" because, while their arguments seem logical, the actual reality of the world does not align with the notion of injustice they claim to be fighting against.)

 No wonder you're so far off the mark. You're basing alot of this off of your impressions of MRAs versus what they're actually saying. I doubt you looked into anything considering the things you're saying. "They just can't get laid" is a very typical attack on them that's baseless. They're typically older guys that became activists after going thru a divorce or custody battle over their kids. The vast majority of their grievances have to do with marriage or offspring so of course they're gonna butt heads with feminists. So conflating them with incels is 100% wrong and foolish.



The main issue with incels is overwhelming entitlement.



Wow, It looked like Intel tourism.



Incels have not accepted the world has changed. The good old days were so much easier when males and females had clear defined roles. Incels do not fit into society and they are social outcasts with no self identity. A typical incel is a male aged 18 to 30 years of age and they have too much free time on their hands. Incels are a growing group of people and their numbers will increase over time. Mass shooters in the US  have characteristic of an incel, young male social outcast with no self identity.

Last edited by Dark_Lord_2008 - on 30 May 2018

Jumpin said:
Aeolus451 said:
Incels aren't MRAs or political. They're essentially an online community of guys who can't have sex or get into relationships for a variety of reasons. I think most of them are normal virgins and the socially awkward. Just interacting with more women would fix those.

There is a segment of incels that are the opposite of the man hating feminist. Society shouldn't ostracize them or conflate regular virgins with them because it will only make them worse and turn them into some kind of movement.

My encounters with MRAs have given me the impression that they're generally incels. The focus has very little to do with actual rights of men, but on the sexual advantage of women and their bizarre perception of a crazy "feminazi regime." While the MRA movement claims to support "fathers rights" - I generally do not see any actual fathers seeking child custody among their ranks; they claim to support a group of people who wants nothing to do with them - and even then, this is typically a small topic of discussion that only pops up from time to time because of the perceived support of their "women dominate us" agenda. In addition, there are a lot of racial things included, they don't seem to include blacks among their class.

They don't seem to have many men in their ranks, mostly boys in their teens and younger twenties. Not even close to the age that they would have actually had the life experiences that would actually send them demanding rights - because, for the most part, life is not even close to as tough toward men as they seem to think it will be. Their frustration comes from not having sex rather than any actual injustice against them: that's why their focus is so much on women's roles in society and not the status of men's rights; in other words, the MRA is their more "rational" ideological vent for young men not having sex.

(Note: I put the quotes around "rational" because, while their arguments seem logical, the actual reality of the world does not align with the notion of injustice they claim to be fighting against.)

 

Aeolus451 said:
 

 No wonder you're so far off the mark. You're basing alot of this off of your impressions of MRAs versus what they're actually saying. I doubt you looked into anything considering the things you're saying. "They just can't get laid" is a very typical attack on them that's baseless. They're typically older guys that became activists after going thru a divorce or custody battle over their kids. The vast majority of their grievances have to do with marriage or offspring so of course they're gonna butt heads with feminists. So conflating them with incels is 100% wrong and foolish.

Nobody was talking to me here, but I'm going to offer my 2 cents on this subject anyway.

Feminists tend to use the term "MRA" broadly to cover an array of misogynistic phenomenon ranging from traditional men's activism such as can be found around the National Coalition of Men or A Voice for Men that's mostly about stuff like custody battles (which men actually have to try pretty hard to lose, frankly) and the promotion of access to female-only spaces and events (like ladies night at your local bar or those women-only screenings of the Wonder Woman movie), as well as the male separatist movement ("MTGOWs") that revolves around mocking the outward appearance of older women (defined as over 30, like me), and the more extreme "PUA" and "incel" phenomenon that revolve around male demand for guaranteed sex from women. Just to be clear on what is meant when I use the term.

There are lots of stereotypes about the demography of the women's movement too. Depending on who you talk to, feminists are either all rich and powerful femme fatales who rule the world or poor, fat "losers" who can't find a man because they're too busy living off the government. No one seems able to decide which it is. As someone involved in the movement, I would say that the truth is more like the average feminist is a middle-aged single mom who is divorced because her husband cheated on her or abused her or her kid(s) and who struggles to support her kid(s) by herself (as her ex pays no child support), suffers workplace discrimination because her male boss assumes that she should be home taking care of her kids rather than making a living for them, and objectively needs to be treated more comparably to her male counterparts not only for her own sake, but for that of her child(ren) too. Obviously that's not me, as I haven't reached that level on the social ladder and probably never will. But that I would say is a description of the aggregate feminist. I point that out just to hopefully establish some actual communication here.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 01 June 2018