Forums - General Discussion - I'm tired of this overemphasis on diversity spilling into our entertainment.

Azuren said:

Only going to address the part that we've both acknowledged as the only part I care about (I'm on lunch and I'm not wasting the whole thing debating dumb shit):

Changing a fictional character in an established IP into something else for the sake of diversity is a perversion of art. Period. If you want more black superheroes, literally nothing is stopping you from making them. Comic fans (see: actual comic fans, not MCU fans and "OMG im such a nerd" fans) generally don't like it when the main canon of their favorite IPs is altered for no good reason.

If you can't make Miles Morales white, you can't make Peter Parker black. If you can't make Batwoman straight, you can't make Bobby Drake gay. Just because a race/gender/sexuality/identity is over-represented doesn't give everyone agency to change then into whatever they want while claiming the reverse is against the rules.

I mean im replying to your whole reply, hence the first part, just calling them as I see them. And since you more or less reiterated your point, all we can really do is agree to disagree since I cant really say much more tha reiterating mine. One thing I will say though is that since you're zooming in on comic books a bit, most of the time, movies are entirely new canons where being as accurate as possible doesnt realy matter, making Johnny Storm Black matters as much as changing Thanos' motivations, which both happened because it is a different medium where things are gonna be altered.

Azuren said:
Smear-Gel said:
Also, Ghostbusters sucked because it was filled with too much improv and wasnt funny, the female thing is 100% inqonsecuential and even diving into the debate is just getting duped by Sony who manufactured it so people would care about the movie.

Except the part where most people knew it was going to be trash from the get-go, meaning the improv isn't what liked it.

People knew it looked bad because the trailer wasnt funny, and the trailer wasnt funny because the humour is bad, and the humour is bad because improv.



 

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Smear-Gel said:
Azuren said:

Only going to address the part that we've both acknowledged as the only part I care about (I'm on lunch and I'm not wasting the whole thing debating dumb shit):

Changing a fictional character in an established IP into something else for the sake of diversity is a perversion of art. Period. If you want more black superheroes, literally nothing is stopping you from making them. Comic fans (see: actual comic fans, not MCU fans and "OMG im such a nerd" fans) generally don't like it when the main canon of their favorite IPs is altered for no good reason.

If you can't make Miles Morales white, you can't make Peter Parker black. If you can't make Batwoman straight, you can't make Bobby Drake gay. Just because a race/gender/sexuality/identity is over-represented doesn't give everyone agency to change then into whatever they want while claiming the reverse is against the rules.

I mean im replying to your whole reply, hence the first part, just calling them as I see them. And since you more or less reiterated your point, all we can really do is agree to disagree since I cant really say much more tha reiterating mine. One thing I will say though is that since you're zooming in on comic books a bit, most of the time, movies are entirely new canons where being as accurate as possible doesnt realy matter, making Johnny Storm Black matters as much as changing Thanos' motivations, which both happened because it is a different medium where things are gonna be altered.

Azuren said:

Except the part where most people knew it was going to be trash from the get-go, meaning the improv isn't what liked it.

People knew it looked bad because the trailer wasnt funny, and the trailer wasnt funny because the humour is bad, and the humour is bad because improv.

If you're fine living in cognitive dissonance, that's your prerogative.

 

The fact that the humor was shit played a role, yeah. The fact that they essentially gender swapped everything also made a dent on popularity. If you want to deny that, feel free, but it won't change the fact that taking a male-dominated IP and making every protag an unattractive woman will result in backlash (even if it is funny).



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Azuren said:

If you're fine living in cognitive dissonance, that's your prerogative.

 

The fact that the humor was shit played a role, yeah. The fact that they essentially gender swapped everything also made a dent on popularity. If you want to deny that, feel free, but it won't change the fact that taking a male-dominated IP and making every protag an unattractive woman will result in backlash (even if it is funny).

Oh that's a shame, I thought this was gonna end on amicable terms, but you decided to squeeze out an insult right at the end for no reason. Disappointing tbh.

Also that unnatractive kinda came out of nowhere, that was wierd. And entirely subjective. Either way the fact it wasnt funny played the biggest role. It's why nobody cares that Domino in Deadpool 2 is black. The movie is good and everyone loves her character.



 

Smear-Gel said:
Azuren said:

If you're fine living in cognitive dissonance, that's your prerogative.

 

The fact that the humor was shit played a role, yeah. The fact that they essentially gender swapped everything also made a dent on popularity. If you want to deny that, feel free, but it won't change the fact that taking a male-dominated IP and making every protag an unattractive woman will result in backlash (even if it is funny).

Oh that's a shame, I thought this was gonna end on amicable terms, but you decided to squeeze out an insult right at the end for no reason. Disappointing tbh.

Also that unnatractive kinda came out of nowhere, that was wierd. And entirely subjective. Either way the fact it wasnt funny played the biggest role. It's why nobody cares that Domino in Deadpool 2 is black. The movie is good and everyone loves her character.

Well, when you're going to pretend that something is okay going one direction but not the other in regards to unchanging aspects of a person's being such as race or gender, that's prejudice. I refuse to find common ground that actively gives advantage to someone concerning traits they can't control.

 

People were upset that she was black. There's always backlash when that happens, but media doesn't cover it unless they can pin a specific person as racist or bigoted. I was personally pissed off about it originally. But now that the movie has proven itself, most have forgotten about it (except left-leaning establishments who want to constantly remind you how diverse something is). 



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

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PortisheadBiscuit said:
Oh boo hoo, not everything is hetero/white male centric anymore. Who cares? Entertainment is entertainment. If you allow the race, sex, creed, age etc; affect your perception of said entertainment, sounds like a YOU problem

Seems like you didn't read the topic... and also if no one cares then why is it being made? And personal attacks for what reason? Are you going to accuse me of being advocate?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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Azuren said:
Smear-Gel said:

Oh that's a shame, I thought this was gonna end on amicable terms, but you decided to squeeze out an insult right at the end for no reason. Disappointing tbh.

Also that unnatractive kinda came out of nowhere, that was wierd. And entirely subjective. Either way the fact it wasnt funny played the biggest role. It's why nobody cares that Domino in Deadpool 2 is black. The movie is good and everyone loves her character.

Well, when you're going to pretend that something is okay going one direction but not the other in regards to unchanging aspects of a person's being such as race or gender, that's prejudice. I refuse to find common ground that actively gives advantage to someone concerning traits they can't control.

 

People were upset that she was black. There's always backlash when that happens, but media doesn't cover it unless they can pin a specific person as racist or bigoted. I was personally pissed off about it originally. But now that the movie has proven itself, most have forgotten about it (except left-leaning establishments who want to constantly remind you how diverse something is). 

And I love when judgemental high horse people say others are attacking them when they just previously attacked everyone that doesn't agree with him and fully distorted the thread and OP.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
Azuren said:

Well, when you're going to pretend that something is okay going one direction but not the other in regards to unchanging aspects of a person's being such as race or gender, that's prejudice. I refuse to find common ground that actively gives advantage to someone concerning traits they can't control.

 

People were upset that she was black. There's always backlash when that happens, but media doesn't cover it unless they can pin a specific person as racist or bigoted. I was personally pissed off about it originally. But now that the movie has proven itself, most have forgotten about it (except left-leaning establishments who want to constantly remind you how diverse something is). 

And I love when judgemental high horse people say others are attacking them when they just previously attacked everyone that doesn't agree with him and fully distorted the thread and OP.

Who? I don't believe I attacked anyone, and I didn't see Gel do it, either. What are you referencing?



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Azuren said:
DonFerrari said:

And I love when judgemental high horse people say others are attacking them when they just previously attacked everyone that doesn't agree with him and fully distorted the thread and OP.

Who? I don't believe I attacked anyone, and I didn't see Gel do it, either. What are you referencing?

He accused you of attacking him, and you probably missed his "white people don't like...."



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azuren said:
Smear-Gel said:

Oh that's a shame, I thought this was gonna end on amicable terms, but you decided to squeeze out an insult right at the end for no reason. Disappointing tbh.

Also that unnatractive kinda came out of nowhere, that was wierd. And entirely subjective. Either way the fact it wasnt funny played the biggest role. It's why nobody cares that Domino in Deadpool 2 is black. The movie is good and everyone loves her character.

Well, when you're going to pretend that something is okay going one direction but not the other in regards to unchanging aspects of a person's being such as race or gender, that's prejudice. I refuse to find common ground that actively gives advantage to someone concerning traits they can't control.

 

People were upset that she was black. There's always backlash when that happens, but media doesn't cover it unless they can pin a specific person as racist or bigoted. I was personally pissed off about it originally. But now that the movie has proven itself, most have forgotten about it (except left-leaning establishments who want to constantly remind you how diverse something is). 

I mean, obviously if we disagree then I think you're wrong as well, but I'm not cheekily saying so to make the last word be a snide remark while also agreeing to end it there. I sure hope you dont think I was conceding to any of your points by saying what I said, because it was just that I know that we wont convince each other and so going much further is a waste of time. I still think (know) Im right though. I hope you're enjoying your break.

People were upset, but now that the movie is good nobody cares, because the quality of the movie is much more influential than the changes an adaptation makes, yes. That's my point. Good on those left leaning sites though.



 

Smear-Gel said:
Azuren said:

Well, when you're going to pretend that something is okay going one direction but not the other in regards to unchanging aspects of a person's being such as race or gender, that's prejudice. I refuse to find common ground that actively gives advantage to someone concerning traits they can't control.

 

People were upset that she was black. There's always backlash when that happens, but media doesn't cover it unless they can pin a specific person as racist or bigoted. I was personally pissed off about it originally. But now that the movie has proven itself, most have forgotten about it (except left-leaning establishments who want to constantly remind you how diverse something is). 

I mean, obviously if we disagree then I think you're wrong as well, but I'm not cheekily saying so to make the last word be a snide remark while also agreeing to end it there. I sure hope you dont think I was conceding to any of your points by saying what I said, because it was just that I know that we wont convince each other and so going much further is a waste of time. I still think (know) Im right though. I hope you're enjoying your break.

People were upset, but now that the movie is good nobody cares, because the quality of the movie is much more influential than the changes an adaptation makes, yes. That's my point. Good on those left leaning sites though.

The difference is your argument predicates persecution against over-represented identities under the hard left assumption that you can't persecute white straight cis males. Mine is "all persecution is bad". So you can think you're right all you'd like: you're still the one advocating for persecution. I bet you also think Affirmative Action is a good thing.

 

Were people upset, or weren't they? Was the movie good because they made Domino black? Would it have been worse if they had an equally talented white woman play the white character? Do you feel somehow justified that leftist sites liked the blackwashing just as much as the movie itself? 



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames