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Forums - Movies & TV - How High Will Avengers:IW Soar? (Currently @ ~$2.04B+)

areason said:
Mandalore76 said:

Did Adolf Hitler have a reason for killing 6 million Jews that made sense to you?  What villain's motives meet your seal of approval?

WW2 wasn't a movie that was meant to entertain millions. 

It's historical evidence that the motives of people in power who commit genocide are not considered to be reasonable to a rational person.  And yet, you have some kind of hang up about needing a fictional character to possess a "reasonable motive" for his actions in order to be considered credible by your standards.  All you did was dodge the question of what villain has "realistic motives" to you.  



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epicurean said:
I thought Thanos was the best villain they had thus far. That's not saying a whole lot though, as pretty much every villain so far was just a copy/paste of the the hero of the movie but a bad guy.

I think Loki, vulture, kilmonger, zemo and ego were very good villains. And Ultron, hela, hammer, Ronan, red skull and obadiah were decent. Ive always found the 'bad villian' critiscm for marvel film's to be a bit excessive. A lot of them arent great but most of them are pretty passable.



Mandalore76 said:
areason said:

WW2 wasn't a movie that was meant to entertain millions. 

It's historical evidence that the motives of people in power who commit genocide are not considered to be reasonable to a rational person.  And yet, you have some kind of hang up about needing a fictional character to possess a "reasonable motive" for his actions in order to be considered credible by your standards.  All you did was dodge the question of what villain has "realistic motives" to you.  

I didn't say that Thanos isn't a credible, simply that he fails at being a good villain in a piece of media that is supposed to provide me with entertainment. 

It's not about his motive being unrealistic, but that it is simply not needed. Darth Vader is a villain who had a need, and in going towards its accomplishment became a villain. 

If there was an actual problem in the universe, then Thanos would be a better villain, as he would come in with his solution. Instead their isn't,  and he's simply acting for a predicament that doesn't exist. 



mZuzek said:
pikashoe said:

I think Loki, vulture, kilmonger, zemo and ego were very good villains. And Ultron, hela, hammer, Ronan, red skull and obadiah were decent. Ive always found the 'bad villian' critiscm for marvel film's to be a bit excessive. A lot of them arent great but most of them are pretty passable.

Yeah. Not sure about Ronan being decent, and certainly not Obadiah. I don't even know who Hammer is so that speaks for itself. Loki is overrated, too.

But Marvel villains as a whole are much better than people make them out to be, and especially the more recent ones have been really good.

I find Ronan good because he's a nice contrast to the guardians. He takes himself so seriously, despite all the silly shit going on around him.

I like obadiah mostly due to jeff bridges performance. Hammer was the only interesting part of iron man 2. He is a rival weapons manufacturer. Sam Rockwell elevates a fairly dull villain with a great performance.



areason said:
Mandalore76 said:

It's historical evidence that the motives of people in power who commit genocide are not considered to be reasonable to a rational person.  And yet, you have some kind of hang up about needing a fictional character to possess a "reasonable motive" for his actions in order to be considered credible by your standards.  All you did was dodge the question of what villain has "realistic motives" to you.  

I didn't say that Thanos isn't a credible, simply that he fails at being a good villain in a piece of media that is supposed to provide me with entertainment. 

It's not about his motive being unrealistic, but that it is simply not needed. Darth Vader is a villain who had a need, and in going towards its accomplishment became a villain. 

If there was an actual problem in the universe, then Thanos would be a better villain, as he would come in with his solution. Instead their isn't,  and he's simply acting for a predicament that doesn't exist. 

Large populations using up resources at too rapid a rate, is a real issue. It is something that will affect us in real life. 



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areason said:
Mandalore76 said:

It's historical evidence that the motives of people in power who commit genocide are not considered to be reasonable to a rational person.  And yet, you have some kind of hang up about needing a fictional character to possess a "reasonable motive" for his actions in order to be considered credible by your standards.  All you did was dodge the question of what villain has "realistic motives" to you.  

I didn't say that Thanos isn't a credible, simply that he fails at being a good villain in a piece of media that is supposed to provide me with entertainment. 

It's not about his motive being unrealistic, but that it is simply not needed. Darth Vader is a villain who had a need, and in going towards its accomplishment became a villain. 

If there was an actual problem in the universe, then Thanos would be a better villain, as he would come in with his solution. Instead their isn't,  and he's simply acting for a predicament that doesn't exist. 

Entertainment is subjective.  Just because he didn't meet your specific criteria, by no means that he failed at being a "good villain".  Infinity Wars 1.6 billion and counting at the worldwide box office says that he didn't fail at all to the mass audience.  By the way, Darth Vader is a poor example.  Vader is most accepted as a great villain when he is simply introduced in Star Wars as such without motive.  His actual motives for turning to the dark side in the prequels were far less well received.



pikashoe said:
areason said:

I didn't say that Thanos isn't a credible, simply that he fails at being a good villain in a piece of media that is supposed to provide me with entertainment. 

It's not about his motive being unrealistic, but that it is simply not needed. Darth Vader is a villain who had a need, and in going towards its accomplishment became a villain. 

If there was an actual problem in the universe, then Thanos would be a better villain, as he would come in with his solution. Instead their isn't,  and he's simply acting for a predicament that doesn't exist. 

Large populations using up resources at too rapid a rate, is a real issue. It is something that will affect us in real life. 

No it isn't the movie didn't show at all how it is a problem in the universe.

All it did is state that the home planet of Thanos was destroyed, and it doesn't even go into the details. 

IW wasn't a movie about two different sides, about two sides who have two different solutions to a problem, it was about a mad man and super heroes. 



Mandalore76 said:
areason said:

I didn't say that Thanos isn't a credible, simply that he fails at being a good villain in a piece of media that is supposed to provide me with entertainment. 

It's not about his motive being unrealistic, but that it is simply not needed. Darth Vader is a villain who had a need, and in going towards its accomplishment became a villain. 

If there was an actual problem in the universe, then Thanos would be a better villain, as he would come in with his solution. Instead their isn't,  and he's simply acting for a predicament that doesn't exist. 

Entertainment is subjective.  Just because he didn't meet your specific criteria, by no means that he failed at being a "good villain".  Infinity Wars 1.6 billion and counting at the worldwide box office says that he didn't fail at all to the mass audience.  By the way, Darth Vader is a poor example.  Vader is most accepted as a great villain when he is simply introduced in Star Wars as such without motive.  His actual motives for turning to the dark side in the prequels were far less well received.

That's why it's my opinion that he's a bad villain. I can acknowledge that others think otherwise. 

While i agree with what you said about the prequels, we didn't need them to feel sympathetic about DV. 



The performance in China is more impressive than I thought it would be. Frankly, I didn't expect China would ALLOW Infinity War to get the record for highest opening there, given the control they exert in this area. Perhaps it's the vested interest they have in the two Disney theme parks over there, which I think they own like 50ish percent a piece of. Infinity War is bound to be good advertisement for the Marvel attractions they surely have.

In any case, kudos to Disney for cracking China someway somehow. It should have a very real shot at the 2 billion club now, though I still suspect it may end up falling just shy.



mZuzek said:
pikashoe said:

Large populations using up resources at too rapid a rate, is a real issue. It is something that will affect us in real life. 

Eh, I don't know. Thanos did a very good job as a villain, but the more you think about it, the least it makes any sense. For starters, if he killed half of all life in the universe, what has he really spared? You'd have half the demand, and half the supply as well. Only material resources wouldn't be halved, and he was specifically talking about food in the film.

If he only killed half of intelligent life, then it makes a little more sense, but it's still dumb. Couldn't he just double the resources in the galaxy with the Infinity Gauntlet or something? I mean maybe I'd get his point if it was more of a rush of blood, but he's been clearly wanting to do this for centuries or at least decades, surely he must have thought this through and realized he could just do the opposite of what he did?

Ah well, whatever. When you don't think too much about it, it does work.

In the film they show him slaughtering the people  of Gomorrahs home world. Which improved greatly since his genocide. It worked once so it will work on a larger scale. I assume that is the angle he is going with. 

The thing is creating more resources might cause problems As well, where do they go, does he have to create more planets for them. Cutting the population in half will solve a lot of problems, adding more stuff will likely lead to more issues.