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Forums - NSFW - How to satiate sexual desires while maintaining respect for women?

Faelco on 27 April 2018
VAMatt said:
o_O.Q said:

porn turns women's bodies into a commodity to be bought and used at the behest of men... of course its inherently harmful to women 

That's simply not true.  It's a super outdated opinion that is not supported by fact.  

In reality, women consume tons of porn - about 40% of it, last time I checked.  So, your basic premise, that's its men exploiting women,  is just wrong.  Also, saying "of course" doesn't actually serve as evidence.  

You don't get it!

 

Men are all sexual beasts, always drooling, rock hard and ready to have sex with any hole they see for hours in the most dominant and unromantic positions.

 

So you see? Porn doesn't objectify men at all, only women. And of course, only men watch it. So porn is a crime against women, but perfect for men...

 

/s



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o_O.Q on 27 April 2018
VAMatt said:
o_O.Q said:

porn turns women's bodies into a commodity to be bought and used at the behest of men... of course its inherently harmful to women 

That's simply not true.  It's a super outdated opinion that is not supported by fact.  

In reality, women consume tons of porn - about 40% of it, last time I checked.  So, your basic premise, that's its men exploiting women,  is just wrong.  Also, saying "of course" doesn't actually serve as evidence.  

its not an opinion its a fact

women consuming porn also does not disregard its damage

there is such a thing as internalised misogyny

http://www.culturalbridgestojustice.org/programs/sexism/internalized-sexism/

 

you have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of porn? the purpose of porn is to make women's bodies available for the sexual gratification of men (obviously i'm generalising since men are the main consumers of porn) at all times without those men having to negotiate with an autonomous woman to do so 

this is the very definition of objectification which is a massive problem in our society

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/05/study-the-objectification-of-women-is-a-real-measurable-phenomenon/257504/

"The male and female subjects matched the photos similarly. They recognized right-side-up men better than upside-down men, suggesting that they saw the sexualized men as persons. On the contrary, the women in underwear weren't any harder to recognize when they appeared upside down, indicating that the sexy women were consistently identified as objects.

CONCLUSION: People objectify women in sexualized photos, but not men."

and objectification is the main driving force for various women's issues such as sexual violence since an attitude is cultivated in men where they feel entitled to women's bodies since they are just objects without agency

https://www.bustle.com/p/why-objectifying-women-makes-men-violent-32880

"You may be wondering why the sexual objectification of women has anything to do with violence if it doesn't explicitly depict violence itself. If nobody's suggesting overtly that rape or violence against women are a good idea, surely objectification can't be to blame? Well, not really. Research indicates that it doesn't just end with women being depicted as objects without humanity, needs or rights; it's about what they're objects for. The message, unfortunately, is often for gratification of dudes. And that approach can lead to some serious problems for women's safety."

 

this is all well understood and you need to come to terms with the real world consequences for women



Dark_Lord_2008 on 27 April 2018

Porn feeds rape culture!



RaptorChrist on 27 April 2018
VGPolyglot said:
bananaking21 said:
Get laid?

Nah, I don't feel like going through the hassle of doing that at the moment

Is that really something you consider to be a "hassle"? Even if that were true, wouldn't you not want to have the reputation of being the guy that thinks getting laid is a hassle?

Calling it "getting laid" is probably not the best choice of words considering the purpose of this thread, but what about finding a girl to spend time with and bond with? That's like the greatest thing in life.



Faelco on 27 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
VAMatt said:

That's simply not true.  It's a super outdated opinion that is not supported by fact.  

In reality, women consume tons of porn - about 40% of it, last time I checked.  So, your basic premise, that's its men exploiting women,  is just wrong.  Also, saying "of course" doesn't actually serve as evidence.  

its not an opinion its a fact

women consuming porn also does not disregard its damage

there is such a thing as internalised misogyny

http://www.culturalbridgestojustice.org/programs/sexism/internalized-sexism/

 

you have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of porn? the purpose of porn is to make women's bodies available for the sexual gratification of men (obviously i'm generalising since men are the main consumers of porn) at all times without those men having to negotiate with an autonomous woman to do so 

this is the very definition of objectification which is a massive problem in our society

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/05/study-the-objectification-of-women-is-a-real-measurable-phenomenon/257504/

"The male and female subjects matched the photos similarly. They recognized right-side-up men better than upside-down men, suggesting that they saw the sexualized men as persons. On the contrary, the women in underwear weren't any harder to recognize when they appeared upside down, indicating that the sexy women were consistently identified as objects.

CONCLUSION: People objectify women in sexualized photos, but not men."

and objectification is the main driving force for various women's issues such as sexual violence since an attitude is cultivated in men where they feel entitled to women's bodies since they are just objects without agency

https://www.bustle.com/p/why-objectifying-women-makes-men-violent-32880

"You may be wondering why the sexual objectification of women has anything to do with violence if it doesn't explicitly depict violence itself. If nobody's suggesting overtly that rape or violence against women are a good idea, surely objectification can't be to blame? Well, not really. Research indicates that it doesn't just end with women being depicted as objects without humanity, needs or rights; it's about what they're objects for. The message, unfortunately, is often for gratification of dudes. And that approach can lead to some serious problems for women's safety."

 

this is all well understood and you need to come to terms with the real world consequences for women

This "study" is based entirely on the principle that "If you recognize someone, it means you objectify them". What a crappy and scientifically worthless basis. We could make the same study and say "People consider that all men are the same, don't pay attention to them and are then unable to recognize them in pictures". I love the very scientific "weren't any harder" mention. I can't read the entire study now, that's too bad, I'm sure the methodology of the study is state-of-the-art. We can barely see the obvious agenda of the guys behind it...

 

I'm a published author in a medical review myself, and I can tell you that: not every published paper is worth  scientifically more than reading used toilet paper after a big diarrhea.

Last edited by Faelco - on 27 April 2018

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Azuren on 27 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, this is a topic that has profoundly troubled me for a while. I do have sexual desires, which I currently relieve through masturbation. However, it's hard to do that through thoughts alone, so I tend to use pornographic material too while doing that. Now, this is where the problem lies. The pornographic industry is not the happiest place at all, far from it in fact. Porn stars have a pretty high suicide rate and lower life-expectancy. This highlights the general unhappiness that porn stars have, and it makes it very hard to consciously watch porn without thinking of the working conditions and relationships, how dehumanizing it must be to have a job like that and the normalization of sex that makes it hard to fully enjoy it.

So, what I tend to do frequently is use fictional media instead, mainly hentai (in the forms of anime and doujinshi), as since they're fictional characters it is impossible for them to be truly hurt/exploited. However, I can understand that for others it's hard to do it, and even for me I tend to shuffle things up in order to be able to stay aroused and avoid desensitization. So, there has to be a happy medium. I myself try very hard to not have pornography affect my views and treatment of women, and I hope that I have maintained that. But I was also curious on your guys' thoughts and perspectives on the matter.

"So, what I tend to do frequently is use fictional media instead, mainly hentai (in the forms of anime and doujinshi), as since they're fictional characters it is impossible for them to be truly hurt/exploited. "

this is still not on man

the real problem with porn is its commodification of women's bodies to be used at any time by a man

this obviously occurs directly with sex workers but also indirectly through fiction

have you watched anita sarkeesians videos on the sexualisation of video game charaters for example?

I reported you for saying her name.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

o_O.Q on 27 April 2018
Faelco said:
o_O.Q said:

its not an opinion its a fact

women consuming porn also does not disregard its damage

there is such a thing as internalised misogyny

http://www.culturalbridgestojustice.org/programs/sexism/internalized-sexism/

 

you have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of porn? the purpose of porn is to make women's bodies available for the sexual gratification of men (obviously i'm generalising since men are the main consumers of porn) at all times without those men having to negotiate with an autonomous woman to do so 

this is the very definition of objectification which is a massive problem in our society

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/05/study-the-objectification-of-women-is-a-real-measurable-phenomenon/257504/

"The male and female subjects matched the photos similarly. They recognized right-side-up men better than upside-down men, suggesting that they saw the sexualized men as persons. On the contrary, the women in underwear weren't any harder to recognize when they appeared upside down, indicating that the sexy women were consistently identified as objects.

CONCLUSION: People objectify women in sexualized photos, but not men."

and objectification is the main driving force for various women's issues such as sexual violence since an attitude is cultivated in men where they feel entitled to women's bodies since they are just objects without agency

https://www.bustle.com/p/why-objectifying-women-makes-men-violent-32880

"You may be wondering why the sexual objectification of women has anything to do with violence if it doesn't explicitly depict violence itself. If nobody's suggesting overtly that rape or violence against women are a good idea, surely objectification can't be to blame? Well, not really. Research indicates that it doesn't just end with women being depicted as objects without humanity, needs or rights; it's about what they're objects for. The message, unfortunately, is often for gratification of dudes. And that approach can lead to some serious problems for women's safety."

 

this is all well understood and you need to come to terms with the real world consequences for women

This "study" is based entirely on the principle that "If you recognize someone, it means you objectify them". What a crappy and scientifically worthless basis. We could make the same study and say "People consider that all men are the same, don't pay attention to them and are then unable to recognize them in pictures". I love the very scientific "weren't any harder" mention. I can't read the entire study now, that's too bad, I'm sure the methodology of the study is state-of-the-art. We can barely see the obvious agenda of the guys behind it... 

ok maybe we could argue that this particular study isn't the best, but come on you can't really seriously be arguing that women are not objectified by men constantly?



Aeolus451 on 27 April 2018

You have tendency to really overthink everything. First, you're assuming that watching porn will affect how you view or treat women. That's false. It's the violence and video games. Just jerk off to what you want and don't let yourself feel bad over some dumb shit you heard in college.



Faelco on 27 April 2018
o_O.Q said:
Faelco said:

This "study" is based entirely on the principle that "If you recognize someone, it means you objectify them". What a crappy and scientifically worthless basis. We could make the same study and say "People consider that all men are the same, don't pay attention to them and are then unable to recognize them in pictures". I love the very scientific "weren't any harder" mention. I can't read the entire study now, that's too bad, I'm sure the methodology of the study is state-of-the-art. We can barely see the obvious agenda of the guys behind it... 

ok maybe we could argue that this particular study isn't the best, but come on you can't really seriously be arguing that women are not objectified by men constantly?

First of all, you can get rid of "constantly" and stop saying "men" as if we were all the exact same beasts. Over-generalization makes any argument worthless. 

 

And then, you can't seriously think that only men objectify women and not the opposite. 

 

I worked a few months in Japan in a factory with mostly Asian female students part timer (Vietnamese mostly), I was the only European guy there. I can tell you that I felt like a blond and white piece of meat exposed for them to giggle, whistle, watch non-stop and touch anytime they could. I got my arms, pecs and ass more touched than ever. It was so much that I stopped taking elevators, I was tired of the "So much people, it's tight, come here against me!" and other harassment. 

Even back in France, it was a lot more rare, but I've been whistled a couple of times with "Hey, you! Want to fuck?" or "Want to get married?" by groups of girls on benches in my city. They were surely doing the same with all guys passing by. 

 

So no, the SJW bullshit about only men being rude to women and never the opposite is just wrong and tiring. Stop being blind about an entire side of the issue, and your opinion will gain value. 

Last edited by Faelco - on 27 April 2018

AngryLittleAlchemist on 27 April 2018
Faelco said:
o_O.Q said:

ok maybe we could argue that this particular study isn't the best, but come on you can't really seriously be arguing that women are not objectified by men constantly?

First of all, you can get rid of "constantly" and stop saying "men" as if we were all the exact same beasts. Over-generalization makes any argument worthless. 

 

And then, you can't seriously think that only men objectify women and not the opposite. 

 

I worked a few months in Japan in a factory with mostly Asian female students part timer (Vietnamese mostly), I was the only European guy there. I can tell you that I felt like a blond and white piece of meat exposed for them to giggle, whistle, watch non-stop and touch anytime they could. I got my arms, pecs and ass more touched than ever. It was so much that I stopped taking elevators, I was tired of the "So much people, it's tight, come here against me!" and other harassment. 

 

So no, the SJW bullshit about only men being rude to women and never the opposite is just wrong and tiring. Stop being blind about an entire side of the issue, and your opinion will gain value. 

This user is literally an anti-feminist. 

He has told me before about how much he likes Ben Shapiro because he "destroys  those feminazis"

You are just being trolled.