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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Dragon Quest XI for Switch delay due UE4, game based on PS4 version of game, why was announced for Switch so early

Nuvendil on 15 April 2018
Hynad said:
Wyrdness said:

It uses far more tech, FPS doesn't dictate what is more demanding.

What tech does each game use? 

What kind of strain does each put on the hardware.

Be specific.

FPS may not dictate what is more demanding on every occasion. But then you'd have to wonder why a game looking like Doom doesn't run like a game like Farcry 5. If it's that demanding.

Ok, I'm going to leave this to the experts so as to leave no uncertainty as to bias:

https://youtu.be/la0O0SyM3gg

https://youtu.be/YxVD5z3Kj64

https://youtu.be/svx2_6-NP5Y

Dragon Quest XI is a lovely game, no doubt, but Doom and Wolfenstein 2 are technical marvels that throw graphical effects around with reckless abandon that you normally don't see combined in *30fps* games.  By contrast, Dragon Quest XI makes competent but ultimately unremarkable use of UE4's out of the box capabilities. Games like Gears of War 4 and what we have seen of Kingdom Hearts 3 and especially Final Fantasy VII Remake are certainly much more sophisticated uses of the technology.

And the fact is DQXI is also capped at 30 and hits that target 100% of the time, even in the most demanding instances, which means during regular gameplay it is in fact capable of going above 30fps, they just prefer stability.  Few devs these days opt for uncapped framerates.  

And feature set is crucial to examining the challenges of a port.  It's why Snake Pass - a sub-900p 30fps PS4 game - could be ported in a month or so and Doom and Wolfenstein 2 have taken far longer.  



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VGPolyglot on 15 April 2018
Wyrdness said:
VGPolyglot said:

Physics are different from FPS, it's much simpler to lock a game at 60FPS, especially if it's not demanding on the hardware.

You don't seem to understand the point it would make no difference, FPS is for response time so games that don't require fast reflexes and responses won't find any benefit from them that's the point you may as well add physics to the chess game while you're at it because it won't make a difference.

It makes no sense though. Imagine Square Enix trying to decide what the framerate will be, if they have the choice between 60 or 30FPS, they're going to go with 60FPS if it requires no other compromises. If it does, then the reason why it's not 60FPS is because it can't be without having to change up other things.



Wyrdness on 15 April 2018
Hynad said:
Wyrdness said:

You've got a lot to learn on how games are developed and hardware operates, DQXI is 30fps because it doesn't need to be 60fps.

DQXI is 30 fps because ressources are needed elsewhere for different reasons. Streaming assets, loadings, how much is kept in the background at all time, etc. Not all aspects of a game are visually quantifiable.

No it's 30fps because you don't need response time of 1/60 a frame in the game that's what it comes down for reference games llike MGSV are more demanding than DQXI and they run at 60fps as well and they're leagues above what you have in DQXI.



Hynad on 15 April 2018
Wyrdness said:
VGPolyglot said:

Physics are different from FPS, it's much simpler to lock a game at 60FPS, especially if it's not demanding on the hardware.

You don't seem to understand the point it would make no difference, FPS is for response time so games that don't require fast reflexes and responses won't find any benefit from them that's the point you may as well add physics to the chess game while you're at it because it won't make a difference.

Games that require high framerate on the current consoles need to make sacrifices in other aspects of their visuals. There's a trade-of. If the visuals are pushed too much, resolution being too high, assets having heavy textures, too many dynamic elements, etc, you won't be able to reach that 60fps target. 




Wyrdness on 15 April 2018
VGPolyglot said:
Wyrdness said:

You don't seem to understand the point it would make no difference, FPS is for response time so games that don't require fast reflexes and responses won't find any benefit from them that's the point you may as well add physics to the chess game while you're at it because it won't make a difference.

It makes no sense though. Imagine Square Enix trying to decide what the framerate will be, if they have the choice between 60 or 30FPS, they're going to go with 60FPS if it requires no other compromises. If it does, then the reason why it's not 60FPS is because it can't be without having to change up other things.

You choose fps base on what the game is why are you going to have 60fps in a game where the fastest thing you is select from a menu system in battle it's not hard to understand unless you're not familiar with what fps actually does.



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Nuvendil on 15 April 2018
VGPolyglot said:
Wyrdness said:

You just proved you don't know much about this field with that post, some games run at 30fps because they don't need 60fps DQXI is a turn based rpg where as Doom is a fast paced shooter where reflexes and response matters. FPS doesn't equal more demanding.

Conversely, if 60FPS was possible I see no reason why they wouldn't do it, since it doesn't have any downsides.

In all honesty, DQXI likely runs in the mid 40s with spikes both up and down if you could uncap framerates.  But this isn't a pleasant framerate to persist at.  There are numerous points where demanding features spike but the framerare is stable so it could probably run much higher, just not at an acceptable degree of stability near 60.



Hynad on 15 April 2018
Wyrdness said:
Hynad said:

DQXI is 30 fps because ressources are needed elsewhere for different reasons. Streaming assets, loadings, how much is kept in the background at all time, etc. Not all aspects of a game are visually quantifiable.

No it's 30fps because you don't need response time of 1/60 a frame in the game that's what it comes down for reference games llike MGSV are more demanding than DQXI and they run at 60fps as well and they're leagues above what you have in DQXI.

A game isn't only its visuals and physics! FFS!

DQ XI aims for multiple different things that MGSV or Doom don't! And not just from a visual point of view! And even then, DQ XI has different needs than those two other games. It's not an apple to apple comparison. If you think it is, then I don't know what more to add. 



VGPolyglot on 15 April 2018
Wyrdness said:
VGPolyglot said:

It makes no sense though. Imagine Square Enix trying to decide what the framerate will be, if they have the choice between 60 or 30FPS, they're going to go with 60FPS if it requires no other compromises. If it does, then the reason why it's not 60FPS is because it can't be without having to change up other things.

You choose fps base on what the game is why are you going to have 60fps in a game where the fastest thing you is select from a menu system in battle it's not hard to understand unless you're not familiar with what fps actually does.

Obviously 60FPS matters to people, even in turn-based RPGs. Final Fantasy X on the PC for example, many people were not happy that it was in 30FPS so they attempted patches to make it 60FPS:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/359870/discussions/0/1354868867733045928/

And you seem to miss my point, if it's possible to do 60FPS, they're going to do it because there aren't any downsides to having 60FPS, if we're assuming that the game can handle it along with everything else.



Wyrdness on 15 April 2018
Hynad said:
Wyrdness said:

You don't seem to understand the point it would make no difference, FPS is for response time so games that don't require fast reflexes and responses won't find any benefit from them that's the point you may as well add physics to the chess game while you're at it because it won't make a difference.

Games that require high framerate on the current consoles need to make sacrifices in other aspects of their visuals. There's a trade-of. If the visuals are pushed too much, resolution being too high, assets having heavy textures, too many dynamic elements, etc, you won't be able to reach that 60fps target. 

Yeah and? Not all games aim for 30fps because not all of them need it MGSV is far above DQXI in all aspects and runs at 60fps, you know why because it requires that response time of 1/60 a second if it was 30fps it would blow DQXI away even more. DQXI is 30fps because they don't require fast response times at all in the game.



VGPolyglot on 15 April 2018
Nuvendil said:
VGPolyglot said:

Conversely, if 60FPS was possible I see no reason why they wouldn't do it, since it doesn't have any downsides.

In all honesty, DQXI likely runs in the mid 40s with spikes both up and down if you could uncap framerates.  But this isn't a pleasant framerate to persist at.  There are numerous points where demanding features spike but the framerare is stable so it could probably run much higher, just not at an acceptable degree of stability near 60.

I agree, but it seems as if Wyrdness is arguing that a locked 60FPS would be possible with no other adjustments, and Square Enix decided not to do it just because.