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Forums - General Discussion - The American family is falling apart

Conina on 07 April 2018
o_O.Q said:

with every new person born the chances of bringing the next genius like einstein or tesla into the world increases

you drop the birth rate and the chances of it happening fall drastically

with every new person born the chances of bringing the next warmonger like hitler into the world increases

you drop the birth rate and the chances of it happening fall drastically

This argument works both ways, don't you think?



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Stefan.De.Machtige on 07 April 2018
Conina said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

A lot of people are saying that marriage doesn't matter for children of general family live. Wel if that's the case, why is fertility way down for most (if not all) countries where the marriage rate tanked...?

The answer is simple:
When the chief pair bonding mechanism fails, the bonding fails also. There was a reason why marriage was pushed in the past. They broke the social/religious contract and with it the core of society.

Ain't it a good thing if fertility goes down in many countries?

The world population has grown from 1.65 billion to 7.6 billion since 1900 and is still growing on a planet with limited resources:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Do we really need more people on the planet? 

That is certainly a very valid question. I'm not really sure what the answer is.

The population increase you speak off did lead to the modern age because we hit a certain population plateau no other age could achieve. On the other hand, our growing presence does its downsides.

Overall i do believe our current population level with current technology are not problematic.

So i would say no for the moment, but we don't need less either. Same-ish should be fine.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

sundin13 on 07 April 2018
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

Bold: This is (partially) true if you're talking about the 'modern' marriage.

In the past marriage was not really about love. It was a almost unbreakable contract recognized by state/church/class/just important people which would bind two sexes together and see the continuation of the society. For the most part it was simple enough: A man provided resources and authority and the women provided fertility and sex.

When you commited to this contract, it was a very big deal for all parties. It was one of the most important contract you could enter with far-reaching consequences for both sexes which could last untill death. Under that understanding it can build very strong relationships where business, heritage, blood and even love are mixed in a mutual beneficial contract for both. One of the best free trade deals around  untill .gov got in on the game

As a literal contract it means indeed nothing as all social constructs do. But in the context of the past and social cohesion, it did mean a lot. In the current times it's value is almost zero i quess.

I would not marry myself at this point. As a man there is nothing to gain in marriage.

Then I suppose the question becomes, would you argue in support of regression to that state? And that is a long regression. Even in my grandparent's time, marriage developed from love and not the other way around. People certainly fell into marriage more easily (and stayed in it more easily), but if you wish to support the merits of an almost lottery based marriage system, I don't think many people would support you on that...



fatslob-:O on 07 April 2018
Conina said:

Ain't it a good thing if fertility goes down in many countries?

The world population has grown from 1.65 billion to 7.6 billion since 1900 and is still growing on a planet with limited resources:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Do we really need more people on the planet? 

Yes unless we seriously want to burden our future generations with the task of maintaining social security ... (both China and Japan are time ticking bombs with the majority of baby boomers reaching a high age of 60+ years)

I'm not one bit convinced that overpopulation is even a problem because there's an obvious trade-off between life quality and quantity of lives so the sooner developing countries realize that, the easier their lives will become ... 

Having many offspring is just a defense mechanism for being able to pass on genes but once citizens of developing countries start demanding higher quality of life the replacement rate will drop well below 2.1 children per mother across the world ... (currently the majority of nations that do have a higher replacement rate are from Africa, South/Western Asia and the Pacific Islands)



CrazyGamer2017 on 07 April 2018
RolStoppable said:

That's not quite accurate. Marriage used to be a great deal until women started to demand things and that's when the government started to step in. For example, in Germany in 1992 it was ruled that rape within a marriage is no longer legal.

It's kind of a strange notion to hear about rape inside marriage. I mean with the exception of forced marriages, if you don't want to have sex with a certain person then don't marry that person, obviously... But marrying a person then complaining cause that person wants to have sex with you is kind of a non sequitur, well sort of.



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sundin13 on 07 April 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
RolStoppable said:

That's not quite accurate. Marriage used to be a great deal until women started to demand things and that's when the government started to step in. For example, in Germany in 1992 it was ruled that rape within a marriage is no longer legal.

It's kind of a strange notion to hear about rape inside marriage. I mean with the exception of forced marriages, if you don't want to have sex with a certain person then don't marry that person, obviously... But marrying a person then complaining cause that person wants to have sex with you is kind of a non sequitur, well sort of.

Even if you want to have sex with someone at some times, it doesn't mean that there will never be an instance where they want to have sex and you don't...

It shouldn't be hard to understand how marital rape can occur.



Insidb on 07 April 2018

Yeah, but kids are evil.



CrazyGamer2017 on 07 April 2018
sundin13 said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

It's kind of a strange notion to hear about rape inside marriage. I mean with the exception of forced marriages, if you don't want to have sex with a certain person then don't marry that person, obviously... But marrying a person then complaining cause that person wants to have sex with you is kind of a non sequitur, well sort of.

Even if you want to have sex with someone at some times, it doesn't mean that there will never be an instance where they want to have sex and you don't...

It shouldn't be hard to understand how marital rape can occur.

No I don't understand it. Again you don't marry someone you met 5 minutes ago, you get to know people sometimes for years before marriage, so if they guy is some kind of freak who loves to force himself then you should have noticed and not married him. Even from the guy's point of view this makes no sense to me. I understand rape as an act someone does cause there is NO other way to have sex with someone he fancies but raping his wife? It's the only person you can screw in a totally socially approved way, hell it's weird if you don't want to, so why would you want to rape someone you can have sex with pretty much any time?

It's as if a thief owned a food store and went to "steal" stuff inside his store. What's the point? He owns everything in the store so why put on a mask and rob the place?

Don't get me wrong, I get it that these laws are good and will protect women that could be abused in their marriage, I'm not against such laws, I'm just saying I don't get it from a purely logical point of view.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 07 April 2018

o_O.Q on 07 April 2018
Conina said:
o_O.Q said:

with every new person born the chances of bringing the next genius like einstein or tesla into the world increases

you drop the birth rate and the chances of it happening fall drastically

with every new person born the chances of bringing the next warmonger like hitler into the world increases

you drop the birth rate and the chances of it happening fall drastically

This argument works both ways, don't you think?

what i'm saying is that we are long overdue for the next genius who takes us into the next paradigm with regards to our understanding of the universe

 

your proposition drops the chances of that happening and that's a problem because you risk hindering our advancement to the next level of consciousness



sundin13 on 07 April 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
sundin13 said:

Even if you want to have sex with someone at some times, it doesn't mean that there will never be an instance where they want to have sex and you don't...

It shouldn't be hard to understand how marital rape can occur.

No I don't understand it. Again you don't marry someone you met 5 minutes ago, you get to know people sometimes for years before marriage, so if they guy is some kind of freak who loves to force himself then you should have noticed and not married him. Even from the guy's point of view this makes no sense to me. I understand rape as an act someone does cause there is NO other way to have sex with someone he fancies but raping his wife? It's the only person you can screw in a totally socially approved way, hell it's weird if you don't want to, so why would you want to rape someone you can have sex with pretty much any time?

It's as if a thief owned a food store and went to "steal" stuff inside his store. What's the point? He owns everything in the store so why put on a mask and rob the place?

Don't get me wrong, I get it that these laws are good and will protect women that could be abused in their marriage, I'm not against such laws, I'm just saying I don't get it from a purely logical point of view.

So we are just sliding right into victim blaming? Like domestic violence boggles your mind so much that you are basically saying that it is the woman's fault for marrying someone who raped her.

And they you just casually move into an analogy in which you compare marriage to someone owning goods.

Yeah, piss off mate.