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Forums - Politics Discussion - Where do you stand in the Kuril Islands dispute?

mutantsushi said:
Kemono said:
Well, these islands don't have big value. For both sides this thing is something about jingo patriotism. As a Russian, I prefer sell it a high rate to Japan and forget about this story.
PS: sorry for my poor grammar.

I don't understand, can you elaborate? Is Kaliningrad remaining a part of Russia about jingo patriotism?
The US "owns" Saipan/Marianas, ceded by Japan after WWII, after Germany ceded them to Japan after WWI. What is difference?
Should Poland give up territory to Germany, since that was also result of WWII victors changing borders against fascist aggressors?

The US government simply happened to want to prevent Japan making peace with the other major Ally country against Axis.
Which would seem to be the normal outcome of that war, the fascist aggressor making peace with countries who defeated them.
I believe even the US originally considered that the normal outcome, they just sabotaged it once policy shifted post-WWII. 
So where is jingoism? Do you expect Russian speaking residents of islands to learn Japanese, or would you just kick them out?

What do you think of earlier 2+2 deal which Japan agreed to until changing it's stance at behest of US? Hard to get insight to secret diplomatic negotiations, but even if Japan apparently hasn't been seriously negotiating towards full peace treaty to Russia's liking, I have to say that if they did, the 2+2 deal would probably be accepted by Russian government, after all once it's been proposed it's hard to put genie back in bottle (although Japanese government rarely mentions this episode following US pressure to abandon it in Cold War). Like I wrote, the EEZ factor which isn't immediately apparent when comparing island land area, is enough for Japan to save face, without impacting most of Russian population. Although Shikotan does have small fishing town whose population would need to be respected.

DonFerrari said: 
But on your consideration of Japan being able to become a potency despite having the island, you can look on the other side that Japan have very small land and sea for them while Russia have plethora of land so on your equality demands shouldn't Japan receive the land to be less unequal?

Sounds like lebensraum to me. Rural Japan is in fact increasingly underpopulated, the phenomen of ghost towns and abandoned buildings is huge. The government wants to persuade residents to abandon towns for larger ones to reduce cost of providing services. Isolated Russian islands in the far north are hardly a pragmatic resolution to their real problems if towns in temperate climates with roads to other Japanese cities/towns are dying off. 

And is any more sense that Russia needs the island that are very low populated to escape famine or something?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

And is any more sense that Russia needs the island that are very low populated to escape famine or something?

Most Russians live in the European portion, which is so far away from the Kuril Islands that going there is just unfeasible to escape famine.



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

And is any more sense that Russia needs the island that are very low populated to escape famine or something?

Most Russians live in the European portion, which is so far away from the Kuril Islands that going there is just unfeasible to escape famine.

So the merit of they keeping the island because Japan didn't need it to grow economically is more or less relevant than Russia not needing the land because they still have plenty of unocuppied land?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

Most Russians live in the European portion, which is so far away from the Kuril Islands that going there is just unfeasible to escape famine.

So the merit of they keeping the island because Japan didn't need it to grow economically is more or less relevant than Russia not needing the land because they still have plenty of unocuppied land?

Well, essentially the merit of Russia keeping the islands is that they already have control of them, and Japan is essentially claiming them despite knowing full-well that they are not going to get back what they are claiming (despite possibly Hobamai and Shikotan).



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

So the merit of they keeping the island because Japan didn't need it to grow economically is more or less relevant than Russia not needing the land because they still have plenty of unocuppied land?

Well, essentially the merit of Russia keeping the islands is that they already have control of them, and Japan is essentially claiming them despite knowing full-well that they are not going to get back what they are claiming (despite possibly Hobamai and Shikotan).

So you were just throwing accessories arguments for the sake of the lulz?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, essentially the merit of Russia keeping the islands is that they already have control of them, and Japan is essentially claiming them despite knowing full-well that they are not going to get back what they are claiming (despite possibly Hobamai and Shikotan).

So you were just throwing accessories arguments for the sake of the lulz?

Are you confusing me with the other person you responded to?



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

So you were just throwing accessories arguments for the sake of the lulz?

Are you confusing me with the other person you responded to?

As for where I stand, the fact of the matter is this: the Soviet Union, and later Russia, have had control over the islands for over 70 years, and Japan has managed to become the world's second largest economy despite that.

 

was posted by you on the OP wasn't it?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

Are you confusing me with the other person you responded to?

As for where I stand, the fact of the matter is this: the Soviet Union, and later Russia, have had control over the islands for over 70 years, and Japan has managed to become the world's second largest economy despite that.

 

was posted by you on the OP wasn't it?

Yeah, isn't that essentially the same thing, just worded differently? I'm saying that Russia has had control of them for over 70 years, and thus it doesn't seem like they're going to give them up, and since Japan has become the world's third largest economy (second largest at one point), I don't see them considering the islands necessary enough to go into war/conflict over them.



VGPolyglot said:
DonFerrari said:

As for where I stand, the fact of the matter is this: the Soviet Union, and later Russia, have had control over the islands for over 70 years, and Japan has managed to become the world's second largest economy despite that.

 

was posted by you on the OP wasn't it?

Yeah, isn't that essentially the same thing, just worded differently? I'm saying that Russia has had control of them for over 70 years, and thus it doesn't seem like they're going to give them up, and since Japan has become the world's third largest economy (second largest at one point), I don't see them considering the islands necessary enough to go into war/conflict over them.

If you just ment that as they not going for war over it that is almost moot, they also didn't go for several of their bikering with China. But it seemed more like you were saying that it was pointless for them to even want the islands because they are already a rich country.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yeah, isn't that essentially the same thing, just worded differently? I'm saying that Russia has had control of them for over 70 years, and thus it doesn't seem like they're going to give them up, and since Japan has become the world's third largest economy (second largest at one point), I don't see them considering the islands necessary enough to go into war/conflict over them.

If you just ment that as they not going for war over it that is almost moot, they also didn't go for several of their bikering with China. But it seemed more like you were saying that it was pointless for them to even want the islands because they are already a rich country.

Yeah, I'm saying that there's a lot for them to risk by trying to get those islands back, including relations with Russia for islands that they aren't realistically going to get back in the first place.