You need to define massive.

Does it involve proxy wars like the one that cut the Syrian population by half? Is the Iraq war, that was based on total lies that no one bothers to defend anymore, and the ongoing aftermath massive enough for you?

Final-Fan said: Rab said: True, it does work both ways, it's a kind of madness that can get us all killed  Lately it seems like Russia has been embracing its role as villain.  So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear, Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost. Evil, be thou my good.  Some would say, "So is Trump", but he's not President For Life.

I would say, "So is Trump, so were Obama & Bush". 

Elaborate on how Russia has been embracing its role as villain and how it's been doing it differently than GWB, for example.  

spurgeonryan said: Unlike North Korea they continuously act out actual events that are terrible. The leader seems more insane than Trump and the guy in North Korea,  and they are implied in many other destructive acts.  Or are they just worse at hiding their acts unlike America and China?

Or, maybe: Are you just bad at being sceptical about unproven claims?

In the recent case of the poisoning of Sergej Skripal, I find it almost shocking how many people seriously seem to be believe it was the russian government, not just because there is no evidence for that whatsover, but because these people seriously seem to believe that, of the billion possible ways to kill the guy, the russian government would actully pick a poison that instantly points towards Russia. It's just ridiculous - the whole case is so obviously screaming "false flag" that it hurts.

I strongly recommend everyone to read for example the article by former British ambassador Craig Murray:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/the-novichok-story-is-indeed-another-iraqi-wmd-scam/

In 2012, Democrats said Russia was our BFF:

"Romney, who calls Russia our "No. 1 geopolitical foe," doesn't seem to realize it's the 21st century. #RomneyNotReady" - The Democrats -

Romney, who calls Russia our "No. 1 geopolitical foe," doesn't seem to realize it's the 21st century. #RomneyNotReady http://t.co/xcvhOAFS

— The Democrats (@TheDemocrats) October 22, 2012

"After all, you don't call Russia our No. 1 enemy -- not Al-Qaida, Russia -- unless you're still stuck in a Cold War mind warp." - Barack Obama at the 2012 DNC - http://www.npr.org/2012/09/06/160713941/transcript-president-obamas-convention-speech

"You (Romney) said Russia (was our no. 1 enemy), in the 1980s, they're now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War's been over for 20 years. But Governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s." - Barack Obama during 2012 Presidential debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS2a44F5TgM)

"Mitt Romney talks like he's seen Russia by watching Rocky IV." The DNC even made a poster mocking Romney about watching Rocky IV to get his foreign policy: https://theintercept.com/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/09/romneykerry.jpg - John Kerry at the 2012 DNC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUyqLrgO7Q

"Its someone dated to be looking backwards." - Then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Romney's views on Russia http://www.redstate.com/erick/2014/03/04/hillary-clinton-mocked-romney-on-russia-then-goes-to-hitler-comparisons/

"Vice President Joe Biden assailed Mitt Romney as “fundamentally wrong” and “totally out of touch” on foreign policy in a campaign speech Thursday — contrasting that to a record of President Barack Obama’s tough but right choices. Drawing contrasts between President Barack Obama and comments Romney has made on the campaign trail in 2008 and this year, Biden attacked the former Massachusetts governor for being “one of a small group of Cold War holdovers,” for naming Russia as a major threat to the United States and at times referring to Soviets. I don’t know whether it’s a slip of the tongue or a mind-set … Everybody slips. I never do, but everyone does,” Biden said in a self-deprecating nod to his own gaffes." - Then VP Joe Biden http://www.politico.com/story/2012/04/biden-assails-mocks-romney-on-foreign-policy-075653

"VLADIVOSTOK, Russia — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia sauntered into American presidential politics on Thursday, praising President Obama as “a very honest man” and chastising the Republican nominee, Mitt Romney, for describing Russia as “without question our No. 1 geopolitical foe.”[/quite] - The New York Times September 2012 archive.is/IsUS9

"After the election I have more flexibility." - Obama to Russia/Putin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

"Trade With Russia Is a Win-Win. By making Moscow a normal trading partner, Congress would create American jobs and advance human rights." - Secretary of State Hillary Clinton https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303836404577475061208876588

Final-Fan said: VGPolyglot said: The OP asked if it was closer than North Korea or the United States, if I were to rank them it'd be this: 1. United States 2. Russia 3. North Korea At the power level of the USA, Russia, and some others, which one is "more powerful" has little to do with "likelihood of causing a massive war".  Did you really need me to tell you that?

Every year or so, there is a worldwide poll asking the people which country they believe to be the biggest threat to world peace.

The US always comes first, usually by a huuuuge margin. In 2017, "Pew Research Center" did a similar poll, but they only asked people from 30 countries, that were almost exclusively close US allies, and they reduced the possible answers to China, Russia and the US. And yet, the US still came first...

JRPGfan said: PwerlvlAmy said: Russia is just a leftwing boogeyman. I realize that's not a popular thing to say on here on this site. But that's the way I see it. I also concur with Final Fan, Russia wont start WW3 or a massive war, if anything it will be us, the united states, who instigates the start of it ^ this. Not sure why russia is always made out to be the bad guy / boogeyman. If the news was about americans being behinde a "hit" of some double agent, the comments in the forum would most likely be like "glad they got him" ect.

Because you're standing on the other side of the fence.

 

We live in a relatively peaceful era, but people seem to dismiss, we have the tools to wage war the world has never seen.

the-pi-guy said: McDonaldsGuy said: In 2012, Democrats said Russia was our BFF: Once again, pretending that nothing happened in the past 6 years.   https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/08/08/ten-reasons-the-u-s-and-russia-are-at-odds/?utm_term=.3c6ab515aca2

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/03/25/obama_regional_power_russia_is_no_threat_to_us.html
Obama: "Regional Power" Russia Is No Threat to U.S.

Obama said after the Ukraine invasion Russia is not a threat to the USA and was a "regional power." So why did he say that?

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/us-says-russia-tested-missile-despite-treaty.html?_r=0

Obama ignored Russia's violations of the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (while simultaneously negotiating New START).

Obama would not only say Russia wasn't a threat, but he would routinely mock anyone who suggested otherwise. "The traditional divisions between nations of the south and the north make no sense in an interconnected world nor do alignments of nations rooted in the cleavages of a long-gone Cold War." - Obama at U.N. General Assembly 2009

Listen, we're not starting another Iraq War got it? Too many people died there, and even more people will die if we go to war with Russia.

If we go to war with Russia will you at least sign up for service?

spurgeonryan said: Unlike North Korea they continuously act out actual events that are terrible. The leader seems more insane than Trump and the guy in North Korea,  and they are implied in many other destructive acts.  Or are they just worse at hiding their acts unlike America and China?   What should be done about this country that has been a loose cannon for a century?

Nothing.

 

North Korea is an independent state they ought not now to anyone. Same goes for russia. All of the destruction I've seen since my teenage years has come in the form of American interventions etc

ArnoldRimmer said: Final-Fan said: At the power level of the USA, Russia, and some others, which one is "more powerful" has little to do with "likelihood of causing a massive war".  Did you really need me to tell you that?  Every year or so, there is a worldwide poll asking the people which country they believe to be the biggest threat to world peace. The US always comes first, usually by a huuuuge margin. In 2017, "Pew Research Center" did a similar poll, but they only asked people from 30 countries, that were almost exclusively close US allies, and they reduced the possible answers to China, Russia and the US. And yet, the US still came first...

The US is the most aggressive country, and also causes the most strife and instability in developing nations. Look at how badly the US has failed at handling things in South East Asia and West Asia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afP71xwLI8Y