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The attacks on Cenk Uygur and TYT is hilarious and sad. He already said the genocide happened, yet it's still thrown around. Why? Because it isn't about the Armenian genocide. It's about making that genocide a stick to beat TYT and Cenk with. They don't really give a damn about Armenians, they probably don't know anything about Armenia or the first world war and the caucasus theatre. It's used as ammo and it's disgusting. Now on the point of their financiers. They have been accused of so many dumb baseless backings of people and organisations. If it's not boogeyman Soros, then it's Saudi Arabia or Qatar. It's absolute toss and they have always been open about their funds. Also, they are openly progressive. They have always said that.

Now having said all that. I don't agree with all of their points. However, I do agree with Cenk. Russia is a dangerous dangerous country that is expansionist (Ukraine, Georgia, Moldavia etc), is a dictatorship, kills political opponents, does cyberattacks, does proxywars and propaganda campaigns against other countries, supports separatist movements all over the world, divides and turns people against each other through internet troll farms, cheats in olympic sports etc. The list is long and people defending them are either trolls or useful idiots. Russia must be isolated and stood against. Because they are attacking us, whether you know it or not.



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Hiku said:
TargaryenVers2 said:

The Young Turk is garbage that is funded by Republican investment firms (despite railing against Democrats for superPACS) lead by a genocide denier. I cannot take them seriously as a "legitimate" Democrat platform.

Republican investment firms? Did you mean to say Democratic?
And who is a genocide denier?

Aeolus451 said:
Only lefties who are desperate to be rid of Trump are going with the russia narrative.

That means pretty much every single Republican house and senate member desperately wants to get rid of Trump?
You won't find any Republican representative (aside from Trump) who has not accepted CIA, FBI and NSA's conclusion. Both Republicans and Democrats voted essentially unanimously (98-2 votes) to implement sanctions against Russia largely because of this.
And the two who voted no, one of whom was Bernie Sanders, don't deny the Russia narrative. They had other reasons for voting against it.

They also voted 97-2 to strip Trump of his ability to lift the Russia sanctions:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/trump-russia-sanctions.html

Even the Republicans appear to not trust Donald in regards to Russia.

No. Just no. The whole russia angle is about Trump supposedly working with Russia to win the election. If they can't prove that, they have jack shit. It is not about Russia trying to influence US elections. Russia has likely tried to influence US politics and elections since WWII. It's normal for countries to do that crap with eachother. The US had its hands in everyone's cookie jar so it doesn't have a leg to stand on with interfering in elections.

Dems do everything they can to incentivize illegal immigration while adamantly fighting any voter ID laws in any state. Gee.. I wonder why. So the only damn reason dems care about Russia or the rigging of elections now, it's politically convenient to use it to sway public opinion and trick normies into thinking he's not a legit president.



the-pi-guy said:

Sure, let's just ignore the past 6 years then.  

Americans as a whole, have been incredibly critical of Russia ever since they annexed Crimea in 2014.  

Americans, Republicans and Democrats were pretty positive about Russia during the 2000's.

 

It doesn't make any sense to pull up quotes from 2012, and act like it's hypocrisy.  Things change.  Russia has done things since those comments were made, and ignoring the past 6 years and acting like it makes Democrats hypocrites or something is ignorant.  Russia-US relations have been strained due to actions of Russia for the past 6 years.  

McDonaldsGuy said:

It should be noted there's no proof Russia even did it. The FBI never investigated the servers. It was "investigated" a third party that is pro-Democrat and anti-Russia.

I think Russia hacking the DNC is an even bigger lie than WMDs.

The CIA, and many other intelligence agencies confirmed that Russia had connections to the people that were responsible.  

 

Things brings up more questions:

1. Why didn't Obama see this coming? Remember, Obama not only disagreed with Romney, but outright MOCKED and HUMILIATED him in a debate being watched by 50 million+ people. So what did the former Governor of Massachusetts see in Russia that the Commander-in-Chief, the Vice President, and TWO Secretary of States could not see?

2. Why did Obama call them only a "regional power acting out of weakness" in 2014? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-dismisses-russia-as-regional-power-acting-out-of-weakness/2014/03/25/1e5a678e-b439-11e3-b899-20667de76985_story.html

How do you go from "regional power acting out of weakness" to in just 2 years able to pull off the greatest transatlantic cyber attack the USA has ever seen?

3. Why did Robert Mueller say Iraq had WMDs? Why should I believe them now when they lied to me about Iraq WMDs?



the-pi-guy said:
 

1/2.)  

The reason Obama didn't see it is because he was optimistic about Russia.   During the first few years of Obama's tenure, relations with Russia were greatly improving.  Up until 2012, when Putin was re-elected, Snowden in 2013.   Obama was optimistic about Iran.  

It isn't because Romney had some inside track of knowledge.  Unlike Obama, he was not optimistic.  Republicans don't tend to be optimistic about foreign policy.  They prefer to err on the side of caution.  This is why the Iran deal is so controversial.  Even though currently it seems that Obama was right to trust Iran, Republicans tend to be more cautious.  

 

3.) Technically RM doesn't say Iraq had WMD's.  He says Powell provided evidence that Iraq had WMD's.  

1. So he's an idiot? And so are Clinton, Kerry, and Biden and the Democratic party? They all got fooled by Russia?

He was our Commander-in-Chief! He should've did less Buzzfeed YouTube videos and more commandering then right?

But there's one problem with that: most of what people criticize Russia for - such as "killing political opponents" - happened pre-2012.

Clinton even wrote an entire OpEd about how trade with Russia will help and why we shouldn't pass the Magnistky Act: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303836404577475061208876588

She even admits there is a lot of political opposition to it because of human rights issues in Russia - but she brushes them off.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/05/15/the-magnitsky-flip-flop/

"The administration, starting with Hillary Clinton and then John Kerry, did everything they could do to stop the Magnitsky Act.”

In addition:

a) They announced a "reset" literally months after Russia invaded Georgia - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/07/AR2009020700756.html

b) Obama removed the missile defense systems in Poland and the Czech Republic in 2009

c) Obama ignored Russia's violations of the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty - https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/us-says-russia-tested-missile-despite-treaty.html?_r=0

Remember, Obama would not only disagree with others on Russia, but would publicly humilate and ridicule those who disagreed with him on Russia.

Obama went "far beyond" being optimistic when he outright insulted Romney on the debate stage:

3.) Technically RM doesn't say Iraq had WMD's.  He says Powell provided evidence that Iraq had WMD's.  "

Funny because I don't remembe Mueller or the FBI investigated the DNC's servers either. They're relying on a third party.

Crowdstrike cleaned the DNC servers, andthen  doesn't allow the FBI to access them. The FBI made "multiple requests at different levels" but the DNC refused. http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/313555-comey-fbi-did-request-access-to-hacked-dnc-servers

We've seen this movie back during the Iraq war and I want to avoid it again. I am tired of warmongers always wanting to fight wars based on lies.

You tried to tell us Iraq had WMDs. Now you're trying to tell me Russia hacked the election.



McDonaldsGuy said:

Things brings up more questions:

1. Why didn't Obama see this coming? Remember, Obama not only disagreed with Romney, but outright MOCKED and HUMILIATED him in a debate being watched by 50 million+ people. So what did the former Governor of Massachusetts see in Russia that the Commander-in-Chief, the Vice President, and TWO Secretary of States could not see?

2. Why did Obama call them only a "regional power acting out of weakness" in 2014? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-dismisses-russia-as-regional-power-acting-out-of-weakness/2014/03/25/1e5a678e-b439-11e3-b899-20667de76985_story.html

How do you go from "regional power acting out of weakness" to in just 2 years able to pull off the greatest transatlantic cyber attack the USA has ever seen?

3. Why did Robert Mueller say Iraq had WMDs? Why should I believe them now when they lied to me about Iraq WMDs?

1. Because Russia made their advances into Chrimea in 2014, not in 2012? Romney obviously made the correct judgement in 2012.

2. Because the annexation had only begun? Obama was naive when it came to Russia, and I think even he would agree to that.

3. Well, that is not what he says in the clip but if we assume that he had said it, why is it relevant to the Russia investigation? By your reasoning we sholuldn´t believe ANYTHING trump says based on his avalanche of lies during his presidency.



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the entire Russia farce was conjured by the Obama administration as excuse to illegally spy on a political opponent. When Trump won they kept it going because they had to. Their only way out was to get rid of Trump before they were exposed for their treason.

What we are seeing now is their failure to get rid of Trump before the evidence of their crimes is starting to emerge. There has been an insane amount of high level DOJ and FBI employees getting "resigned" in the past few weeks.

Swamp draining I guess.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

bigjon said:
the entire Russia farce was conjured by the Obama administration as excuse to illegally spy on a political opponent. When Trump won they kept it going because they had to. Their only way out was to get rid of Trump before they were exposed for their treason.

What we are seeing now is their failure to get rid of Trump before the evidence of their crimes is starting to emerge. There has been an insane amount of high level DOJ and FBI employees getting "resigned" in the past few weeks.

Swamp draining I guess.

And your explanation for Trump firing Comey because, according to Trump himself, of the Russia investigation and being extremely critical of Mueller is because.... he is innocent? =)



the-pi-guy said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

You tried to tell us Iraq had WMDs. Now you're trying to tell me Russia hacked the election.

This is the only thing I have time to respond to, right now.

Who is this "you", you're pointing to?

It was Bush's administration, Republicans, that said Iraq had WMDs.  They were the ones who lied.

Robert Mueller and the same people saying Iraq had WMDs are now saying Russia "hacked" the election. You're not giving me a good explanation on why I should believe you about Russia when the FBI didn't even investigate the servers themselves.

The Iraq War was bipartisan BTW. Bill Clinton was the one laying the foundation for the Iraq War.

"In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed."

- Bill Clinton, on Saddam Hussein's WMD threat in 1998

"Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made?"

- The Iraq Liberation Act signed by Bill Clinton also in 1998

“No one has done what Saddam Hussein has done, or is thinking of doing. He is producing weapons of mass destruction, and he is qualitatively and quantitatively different from other dictators.”

- Bill's Secretary of State Albright in 1998

Let me guess, George W. Bush was really Bill Clinton in disguise?

I bet you didn't even know the Clinton Administration was making the same exact claims Bush would 5 years later. Bill Clinton also bombed Baghdad many, many times. One because he thought Saddam tried to assassinate George Bush - but of course, the intelligence there was questionable.

BTW, if Clinton was so fooled by Russia why the hell would we vote for her? You're clearly saying the former SECRETARY OF STATE (she wasn't a Senator then) was fooled by Clinton. Same with Obama, Kerry, Biden, and the entire Democratic party. All fooled by Russia. So your solution is to elect those idiots? You don't award people for being wrong.

Last edited by McDonaldsGuy - on 12 February 2018

Trump cultists, again, trying to say Russia didn’t do anything and is the best country in the world



StarOcean said:
Trump cultists, again, trying to say Russia didn’t do anything and is the best country in the world

Obama was a million times more favorable to Russia during his term than Trump is now.

Obama and Putin were practically BFFs.