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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Kotaku: Switch Has Three Times As Many Games as Wii U Did At This Point - And They're Better

pikashoe said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and Pokemon all in the first year would normally make any fan of gaming say that is the best single year in Nintendo's history. Since it is Wii though, it is a lineup that does a great job of, "playing to Wii's strengths with games that use motion controls and are fun to play in groups"? Foh with that bullshit. It is close, sure, but Wii has the higher quality lineup. If Switch had Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon all in its first year, people would have absolutely no problem saying it was the best first year in Nintendo's history. However, Wii gets points taken away because it is Wii. Not gonna be able to do it.

I wasn't saying that as an insult I loved the Wii, and think that people hate on it to much. Some of my favourite games ever are on the Wii.

Looking at those two lists, mario party 8, Pokemon, Wii play, donkey Kong and big brain academy all got a pretty poor critical reception for the Wii. While only 1-2 switch and flip wars were poorly received on the switch. 

I am unsure what that means? I have already stated once that scores do not tell the whole story. Would Nintendo rather have all the indie titles on Switch or a game equivalent to Wii Sports? The impact of Wii Sports is astronomical and while it is only one game, it is a game that is more massive than almost every game on Switch's library in combined. It is unfair to say, "Switch has more games and they rate higher (people's opinion) so therefore, Switch is better" when nothing on Switch compares to one game on Wii. And then on top of that game, there was also Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. If Nintendo had that kind of massiveness today, people would call it, without a doubt, the greatest first year ever. It is very simple. Wii has a slight edge over Switch.

While Donkey Kong, Wii Play, Big Brain Academy, and Pokemon all reviewed poorly, how did they sell? See, different numbers can net you different set of facts.



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I don't think any prior Nintendo platform really matches the Switch in its first year library tbh.

BOTW
MK8
Splatoon 2
Xenoblade 2
M&R
Pokken
ARMS
Fire Emblem Warriors
Super Mario Odyssey
Doom
Skyrim SE
RE Revelations 1&2
LA Noire
I Am Setsuna
Minecraft
Celeste
Sonic Mania
Disgaea 5
Bayonetta 1&2
Dragon Quest Builders
DQ Heroes
DB Xenoverse

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 07 February 2018

GhaudePhaede010 said:
pikashoe said:

I wasn't saying that as an insult I loved the Wii, and think that people hate on it to much. Some of my favourite games ever are on the Wii.

Looking at those two lists, mario party 8, Pokemon, Wii play, donkey Kong and big brain academy all got a pretty poor critical reception for the Wii. While only 1-2 switch and flip wars were poorly received on the switch. 

I am unsure what that means? I have already stated once that scores do not tell the whole story. Would Nintendo rather have all the indie titles on Switch or a game equivalent to Wii Sports? The impact of Wii Sports is astronomical and while it is only one game, it is a game that is more massive than almost every game on Switch's library in combined. It is unfair to say, "Switch has more games and they rate higher (people's opinion) so therefore, Switch is better" when nothing on Switch compares to one game on Wii. And then on top of that game, there was also Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. If Nintendo had that kind of massiveness today, people would call it, without a doubt, the greatest first year ever. It is very simple. Wii has a slight edge over Switch.

While Donkey Kong, Wii Play, Big Brain Academy, and Pokemon all reviewed poorly, how did they sell? See, different numbers can net you different set of facts.

Look how the likes of Wii Sports and DK sold on Wii U though some of the games ended up being a flash in the pan as the people that bought them were content and didn't bother with much else, Switch in contrast has sold off a combination of its library and it being a very appealing product. I'm willing to bet that the games that are in the Switch's library on future platforms can repeat their success or come with in range of it.

We can't even say it's because the Wii U flopped that's why comparable games didn't sell as well because on 3DS Nintendogs didn't even come close to the sales of its predecessor while on Switch a platform doing well 1-2 Switch although has done well for what it is is nowhere near what games of its type sold on Wii, This highlights the were other factors in play that gave these games success during they period they came out.



Wyrdness said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

I am unsure what that means? I have already stated once that scores do not tell the whole story. Would Nintendo rather have all the indie titles on Switch or a game equivalent to Wii Sports? The impact of Wii Sports is astronomical and while it is only one game, it is a game that is more massive than almost every game on Switch's library in combined. It is unfair to say, "Switch has more games and they rate higher (people's opinion) so therefore, Switch is better" when nothing on Switch compares to one game on Wii. And then on top of that game, there was also Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. If Nintendo had that kind of massiveness today, people would call it, without a doubt, the greatest first year ever. It is very simple. Wii has a slight edge over Switch.

While Donkey Kong, Wii Play, Big Brain Academy, and Pokemon all reviewed poorly, how did they sell? See, different numbers can net you different set of facts.

Look how the likes of Wii Sports and DK sold on Wii U though some of the games ended up being a flash in the pan as the people that bought them were content and didn't bother with much else, Switch in contrast has sold off a combination of its library and it being a very appealing product. I'm willing to bet that the games that are in the Switch's library on future platforms can repeat their success or come with in range of it.

We can't even say it's because the Wii U flopped that's why comparable games didn't sell as well because on 3DS Nintendogs didn't even come close to the sales of its predecessor while on Switch a platform doing well 1-2 Switch although has done well for what it is is nowhere near what games of its type sold on Wii, This highlights the were other factors in play that gave these games success during they period they came out.

Your first sentence does not negate the impact of Wii Sports. Nor does the rest of your post negate that reviewer opinions would not tell the whole story. Unless you are going to say I am wrong somehow, it is pointless to argue against Wii Sports or the first year of Wii. You are simply trying to make an excuse to negate Wii Sports. Every indie developer out there would kill for a game that breaks through like Wii Sports did. Since the rest of your post is an attempt to justify that silly first sentence, I have nothing further to say. You have to bring me a point that actually negates mine or we are just creating pointless banter.



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pikashoe said:

I wasn't saying that as an insult I loved the Wii, and think that people hate on it to much. Some of my favourite games ever are on the Wii.

Looking at those two lists, mario party 8, Pokemon, Wii play, donkey Kong and big brain academy all got a pretty poor critical reception for the Wii. While only 1-2 switch and flip wars were poorly received on the switch. 

I swear to god i'm not just saying this because i'm the stereotypical "I don't like ports!" kind of guy. I mean, I am that kind of guy, but that's not why i'm saying this. I don't think it's fair to include ports in this discussion. If the Wii had ports from the Gamecube, it would have had a better lineup than the Switch. Bar none. I'm not talking about Zelda, as Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild cancel each other out and are more like cross-generational titles. I'm talking about Mario Kart 8 Deluxe or Pokken or Bayonetta 1 + 2. That's just bullshit. It's worth noting that the Gamecube, as time has passed on, has become one of the most beloved eras in Nintendo history when it comes to pure quality.

Wyrdness said:

I don't think any prior Nintendo platform really matches the Switch in its first year library tbh.

BOTW
MK8
Splatoon 2
Xenoblade 2
M&R
Pokken
ARMS
Fire Emblem Warriors
Super Mario Odyssey
Doom
Skyrim SE
RE Revelations 1&2
LA Noire
I Am Setsuna
Minecraft
Celeste
Sonic Mania
Disgaea 5
Bayonetta 1&2
Dragon Quest Builders
DQ Heroes
DB Xenoverse

Which isn't that surprising seeing as how the industry is constantly expanding. Interesting to note that a lot of the games you listed were revealed or known about as far back as the Switch's january presentation. Basically, they would have been there whether or not the Switch was successful. So it's not really because of Nintendo that most of those games ended up coming out in the system's first year, in other words it has more to do with an expansive industry  or good timing than some ultra impressive lineup. Not trying to disqualify the first year though, Nintendo's output was pretty impressive and you know Nintendo had to pull some strings to get DOOM on there.



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GhaudePhaede010 said:

Your first sentence does not negate the impact of Wii Sports. Nor does the rest of your post negate that reviewer opinions would not tell the whole story. Unless you are going to say I am wrong somehow, it is pointless to argue against Wii Sports or the first year of Wii. You are simply trying to make an excuse to negate Wii Sports. Every indie developer out there would kill for a game that breaks through like Wii Sports did. Since the rest of your post is an attempt to justify that silly first sentence, I have nothing further to say. You have to bring me a point that actually negates mine or we are just creating pointless banter.

I brought you a point you just ducked it, your argument hinges on impact determining what platform has a better library which in itself is flawed as for one Wii Sports was a packed which you're comparing to games that aren't packed in meaning even if someone bought the Wii for another game WS would get a sale just from the Wii unit being sold another case is Wii Play which came with a free Wiimote for like 20 quid which was cheaper then buying a Wiimote by it self. What you're perceiving as impact had many different factors to it behind those numbers this is why similar games or sequels to them didn't even come close to their predecessors because the actual impact wasn't really the game per say it was a combination of the Wii being appealing, different, the blue ocean and super cheap during a recession to the point it cost less than some prior gen platforms.

When on a platform that had none of what the Wii had all of these titles struggled to take off yet the comparable titles on the Switch still sold well and had a semblance of an impact this highlights as impact goes which library is the better of the two as consistency brings more context to the numbers. The irony is your point on numbers painting a different story is also misleading because the numbers the Switch is doing also highlights the impact of its library.



Wyrdness said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

Your first sentence does not negate the impact of Wii Sports. Nor does the rest of your post negate that reviewer opinions would not tell the whole story. Unless you are going to say I am wrong somehow, it is pointless to argue against Wii Sports or the first year of Wii. You are simply trying to make an excuse to negate Wii Sports. Every indie developer out there would kill for a game that breaks through like Wii Sports did. Since the rest of your post is an attempt to justify that silly first sentence, I have nothing further to say. You have to bring me a point that actually negates mine or we are just creating pointless banter.

I brought you a point you just ducked it, your argument hinges on impact determining what platform has a better library which in itself is flawed as for one Wii Sports was a packed which you're comparing to games that aren't packed in meaning even if someone bought the Wii for another game WS would get a sale just from the Wii unit being sold another case is Wii Play which came with a free Wiimote for like 20 quid which was cheaper then buying a Wiimote by it self. What you're perceiving as impact had many different factors to it behind those numbers this is why similar games or sequels to them didn't even come close to their predecessors because the actual impact wasn't really the game per say it was a combination of the Wii being appealing, different, the blue ocean and super cheap during a recession to the point it cost less than some prior gen platforms.

When on a platform that had none of what the Wii had all of these titles struggled to take off yet the comparable titles on the Switch still sold well and had a semblance of an impact this highlights as impact goes which library is the better of the two as consistency brings more context to the numbers. The irony is your point on numbers painting a different story is also misleading because the numbers the Switch is doing also highlights the impact of its library.

You avoided the impact of the game by not admitting it was massive and only saying it was not sustained for another generation through a completely different business model and altered heavily game play. Nothing you have said disputed Wii Sports impact on gaming. You just tried to change the topic. I am not even touching the rest of your post because, as I did in my previous post, I do not indulge bullshit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I said my opinion on why Wii has a better library but I also said in another post that it is close because it is. No Metroid Prime (or any Metroid for that matter) in the first year of Switch keeps it just off the board. If we count ports for Switch, then count backwards compatibility for Wii and how much cheaper it is than ports and we are done here.



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GhaudePhaede010 said:

You avoided the impact of the game by not admitting it was massive and only saying it was not sustained for another generation through a completely different business model and altered heavily game play. Nothing you have said disputed Wii Sports impact on gaming. You just tried to change the topic. I am not even touching the rest of your post because, as I did in my previous post, I do not indulge bullshit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I said my opinion on why Wii has a better library but I also said in another post that it is close because it is. No Metroid Prime (or any Metroid for that matter) in the first year of Switch keeps it just off the board. If we count ports for Switch, then count backwards compatibility for Wii and how much cheaper it is than ports and we are done here.

No dude stop the the side stepping bs as my post did dispute WS' impact by highlighting it was more the Wii's doing and market circumstance then the game due to the factors I highlighted, your post to someone else brought impact of games into the equation of the topic of which is the better library and mentioned numbers my post addressed that which is well with in the topic.

Ports are far different from BC and ironically Wii's launch title is a port itself as are the likes of Okami and RE4 and such so that argument goes against the Wii even more so that's a weak reach.



Wyrdness said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

You avoided the impact of the game by not admitting it was massive and only saying it was not sustained for another generation through a completely different business model and altered heavily game play. Nothing you have said disputed Wii Sports impact on gaming. You just tried to change the topic. I am not even touching the rest of your post because, as I did in my previous post, I do not indulge bullshit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I said my opinion on why Wii has a better library but I also said in another post that it is close because it is. No Metroid Prime (or any Metroid for that matter) in the first year of Switch keeps it just off the board. If we count ports for Switch, then count backwards compatibility for Wii and how much cheaper it is than ports and we are done here.

No dude stop the the side stepping bs as my post did dispute WS' impact by highlighting it was more the Wii's doing and market circumstance then the game due to the factors I highlighted, your post to someone else brought impact of games into the equation of the topic of which is the better library and mentioned numbers my post addressed that which is well with in the topic.

Ports are far different from BC and ironically Wii's launch title is a port itself as are the likes of Okami and RE4 and such so that argument goes against the Wii even more so that's a weak reach.

You didn't dispute its impact. You just said it didn't last over multiple generations. Which is not to say its impact was not massive while it did last. You just changed the narrative. I am not a fool, you know.

You are correct, ports are way different. They get counted as a new game for a console with no backwards compatibility but the one with backwards compability gets absolutely no credit for having it. Makes sense to me. Oh and I fail to see the irony since Switch's Zelda is also a port. Ports count but backwards compatibility does not even though it may have been just as much a selling point as ports are today; maybe even more. Sweet.



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GhaudePhaede010 said:
Wyrdness said:

No dude stop the the side stepping bs as my post did dispute WS' impact by highlighting it was more the Wii's doing and market circumstance then the game due to the factors I highlighted, your post to someone else brought impact of games into the equation of the topic of which is the better library and mentioned numbers my post addressed that which is well with in the topic.

Ports are far different from BC and ironically Wii's launch title is a port itself as are the likes of Okami and RE4 and such so that argument goes against the Wii even more so that's a weak reach.

You didn't dispute its impact. You just said it didn't last over multiple generations. Which is not to say its impact was not massive while it did last. You just changed the narrative. I am not a fool, you know.

You are correct, ports are way different. They get counted as a new game for a console with no backwards compatibility but the one with backwards compability gets absolutely no credit for having it. Makes sense to me. Oh and I fail to see the irony since Switch's Zelda is also a port. Ports count but backwards compatibility does not even though it may have been just as much a selling point as ports are today; maybe even more. Sweet.

I did dispute the impact from the very beginning that's the whole point of highlighting the numbers across gens to highlight it wasn't the result of the software's own impact but more so the platform's own impact and market approach.

One of the reasons BC isn't really credited is that the games are not new releases even though a port is a version of another game its still a new release for the new platform while BC isn't BC is a feature albeit a convenient one but just that a feature like having media capabilities, BC is essentially you just having your old console as a feature otherwise it would be like saying the upcoming VC for Switch and all its games count when it launches it's an argument that reaches because if GC is on the NS VC then all of a sudden under the same mode of logic it would be argued the GC library are now Switch games. When debating a platform's own library BC games aren't considered because they're the library of a prior platform via a feature.

A port however is a new release for a platform, MK8D was a new release with additions, Pokken was a new release with additions as both these games were a new version of another on the case of BOTW and TP under the market they aren't even ports they're multiplatform release which is a different scenario altogether.

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 07 February 2018