When a movie it's good, it stands by its own.
First, people needed to lie about past entries in the franchise to defend it.

But it seems the plan failed. Now they have moved to even mention other movies/franchises.

Do we need more proof now? I don't think so.


tlj is officially a bad movie and a failure for the SW universe.

I disagree with that. I enjoyed TLJ a lot.

It's not a simple as that, you are trying to use one website as the end of all user reviews across the web when I clearly showed you it wasn't the case. The fact that this website, IMDB, is also trying to beef up the score by manipulating the average.

Rotten tomatoes, which is a bigger website where more people are actually writing their critics has the rating at 3.1/5, which mean 6.2/10, the lowest of any Star wars movie. The outside US and metacritic opinions are also very low, the lowest for a SW movie.

The truth is that people had high expectations before seeing this movie and most fans are leaving very disappointed. It's all over the place.  People happy about the movie are mostly people with low expectations or very young people who would like any action movie. But among the Star Wars fans, it is by far the worst SW movie. That's how it is judged.

Soon, under 50% approval at Rotten tomatoes?

Final numbers for the 4 day weekend are in. Jumanji actually beat TLJ by $1.93M on Monday. However, TLJ was able to eke out a victory and was just $540K ahead.

Interestingly, TLJ seems to be performing slightly above Rogue One, outside of opening weekend. Without opening weekend, TLJ has made $311.5M. RO did $285.8M. Putting TLJ 9% above it. From now, until close, RO made $91.3M. If that 9% holds, TLJ will make $100.3M, putting its total at $631.8M. And if Foreign box office continues to represent 50% of it revenue, that would put its final total ~$1.26B.

Of course, that difference may actually fall in future days. This past four day weekend saw TLJ only outperforming RO by just 2%, a difference of $1.3M. And RO's Monday actually outperformed TLJ's by 1.6M.

I actually tend to trust user reviews over professional "critics" because regular consumers don't tend to have agendas, at least not in large numbers. They are actually the ones who spent money on the product and are reacting accordingly, based on raw reactions. Critics, while they may know a bit more of what they're talking about, have superior writing skills, and can pick up on more nuances of these products, tend to be a lot more biased and are thus harder to trust/take seriously. I'm a reviewer for a smaller gaming site, and even I've had experiences of getting free game copies and being wined and dined to where I haven't been directly bribed but at least indirectly coaxed into looking at a game more favorably rather than just buying the game like a typical customer.

To me the crazy disparity between the "critics" and user scores when it comes to TLJ, especially on Rotten Tomatoes has made this critic bias as transparent as a freaking window, and for my money has pretty much evaporated the last shred of credibility of most of these guys.

The biggest problem I have with critics is their lack of criteria. For a few movies they would decrease the score mentioning poor writing, lack of good acting, plot holes, etc. Then for others they would totally ignore all this an mention something like "its very fun" and "not afraid to change" and ignore all the rest to give it a good grade.

The same happens with game reviews.

And if you erase the 10s it will drop lower than 7, your point being?

Funny is you only wanting to remove the lower end, but assuming all the upper end are good.

Sorry to burst your bubble but if there are a lot of sub 4 scores because of hate of a movie they liked, or because it goes to progressive agenda there are certainly a lot of 9 and 10 that are there just to defend the movie because of the SJW agenda, simple as that.

Go and look for a lot of movies and comics were SJW demand changes and have it fulfilled... the sales go lower, there will be a lot of pissed customers, but some strong defense even from people that didn't buy the product before and some that won't even buy it this time (reflects on the sales that got lower).

Again, why are you so defensive of this movie?

For fuck sake, what a ton of bullshit in one single message, all this excuses just cause you are unable to recognize the true reason why the movie is well rated, the movie is considered good by the vast majority, period, accept it already, if you don't like it fine, critics like it, people like it, don't come at me with all that SJW nonsense to justify why its well rated cause it makes no sense at all and you have ZERO proof of that. And you still don't understand how statistics work, no there is nothing strange about a 10 when the most popular score is an 8, nothing at all, however those 1s are out of place, there is a big jump compared to the people that give the movie a 2 or a 3, that's a sign of something going wrong, do you imagine a movie where the most popular score is a 3 and then almost no one gives it an 8 or an 9 but suddlenly there is a lot of people giving it a 10? Then in that case those 10 would be highly suspicious and would need to be weightened down in order to get a more representative score, but in this case the 1s are the suspicious ones, really even a child could understand this and so do you, this is just complete desperation to give some sense to your completely made out narrative, never ceases to amaze me how ridiculously out of reality some people in this kind of forums can be.

User was moderated for this post

-Super_Boom

86 on metacritic and 91% on rottentomatoes

7.6 on imdb among 255.000 votes

1 bilion $ in just 17 days without being released on China where is gonna be a hit

Do we need more proof? You are oficially the person with worst arguments of this whole forum

Btw, did you saw the movie already or you just keep shitting about without watching it as you did shamelessly for more than a week? Talking about a failure

As I recall, the last two weren't big in China at all.

That aside though, it seems to me that where you're struggling is seeing the difference between big numbers, and strong numbers. They are not one and the same. Lets take Batman vs Superman for instance, it had very big box office numbers, but they were by no means strong box office numbers, considering what such a movie featuring such beloved, iconic characters should be able to produce. WB ignored the very heavy backlash from fans, because while not ideal, the numbers were still very big, and they figured they could just keep going right along with very minimal changes. Que Justice League, suddenly they got their legs cut out from under them, and now they're forced to look at a major shakeup. Now, Star Wars and DC aren't operating on quite the same scale, but the situation is fairly similar nevertheless. 

Star Wars is posting very big numbers, and there isn't many a movie franchise that could hope to match them, but that's really a moot point. Star Wars is Star Wars, and we know - as does Disney - that it is capable of significantly more. Moreover, they are very much banking on growing, and expanding the brand, rather than just seeing stagnant, or shrinking returns year after year. Already, we can see that they are not happy with the current situation, because we can see Rian Johnson sweating (tweeting about how the third weekend is the best time to go see a movie, and everyone should go out and see it now), and being trotted out there to backtrack his statement about Rey's parents (now proclaiming that the next guy coming in can do whatever he wants to retcon his decision), etc. Disney is worried about how this movie is being received by a good portion of it's fanbase, as well they should be. Keep in mind, that this movie is really still in the honeymoon phase as well. For the first year or so after a new movie in a huge franchise like this comes out, everyone is usually still riding high, proclaiming it's the best one yet. It's not until things die down, when people usually start to see all the cracks. When your movie faces this much backlash this early, it's not really a good sign.

And listen....I respect that you like this movie. That's totally fine. A lot of people like it, and there's some perfectly valid reasons to like it. The cinematography is miles better than TFA, as is the set design, editing, sound design (which JJ Abrams doesn't seem to understand, cus his movies are just loud all the way throughout, to the point that the loudness has no dramatic effect anymore), etc. If you're  the type of person who just wants their Star Wars movie, or blockbuster in general, to be visually spectacular, and show you some things you've never seen before, where you just go "wow!" This movie definitely delivers that in spades. It is downright masterful in that regard, and if that's why you go to the movies, to see stuff like that - for which I can't blame anyone - then it is a must see. That doesn't change the fact that is also a display in objectively bad storytelling. Not ok, not mediocre....BAD storytelling. And while that may not matter to you personally, because that's not what you look for in a Star Wars movie (or blockbuster in general), it matters to a good deal of other people, and they are completely justified in hating this movie, if that's what they came to see. The original trilogy is such a big hit, because it used that distinct, exciting, visual spectacle as a vehicle for a simple, but effective story, where the characters were the drivers. This new Star Wars doesn't do that. They just go from one exciting visual scene to the next, with complete disregard for how they end up there, or if it makes sense for the characters to be in those situations. 

I think this will be my last post in this thread. There's far too much vitriol, and circle jerking.