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Forums - Gaming - If Sony makes a "Playstation Switch" could it succeed?

 

Could Sony make a successful Switch ?

Yes 25 14.37%
 
No 83 47.70%
 
Depends on many things 62 35.63%
 
see results 4 2.30%
 
Total:174
EricHiggin said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Yeah, combine that with $250 portable then it for sure will be more expensive than $300 if they want indie games too. Also, Sony can't compress game like Nintendo to have much smaller data size than from disk to SD card. In 2020, New Switch with new Tegra chip can come out with Pokemon so good luck to that. I still can't understand how ps5 will come out in 2020 with $400 price but PS4/5 portable is only $250 at the same time. Not even Apple or Nvidia can do that. AMD have never ever make the top mobile chip but in 2020 they can make ps5 portable chip cost $250 because you said so. WOW. And the word "probably, maybe" is a wishful thinking for now at best

The $250 is more so based on using mostly existing PS4 internal hardware. A PS5 Ryzen based unit would likely be more expensive, but not necessarily all that much more. A PS4 SS around 2019 should only cost $199 max, and the portable would only need a screen and battery on top of that, so $250 should easily be doable for the entire handheld and dock. $300 worst case scenario if they were to launch it with a more than reasonable amount of storage. There also would be nothing stopping PS from subsidizing the hybrid $50 to $100 at retail if they feel that's necessary to compete.

Switch also requires micro SD for expansion storage for extra games, and online isn't free, so it's clearly much more expensive than $300 as well. Apparently PS doesn't have the tech to compress as well as Nin does, but there's no saying someone else doesn't, that PS could pay to use. However, Vita game file sizes aren't that large though, like Killzone is 4.0GB and Uncharted is 3.5GB, while Zelda on Switch is 13.5GB. The majority of Vita games look to be around 1.0GB on average. Nin's games also don't tend to have the same level of assets that AAA games have, which allows Nin's games to have smaller file sizes in general.

PS5 costing $400 is a strong guess based on the massive success of the PS4 and much lesser sales of XB1, but we don't know what the cost of it is actually going to be. For all we know it ends up $500, assuming XB2 is $500 since XB seems to be stuck on that price. Maybe PS decides to have a $350-$400 PS5 hybrid and a standard dedicated 4k PS5 home console for $500. I said it "should" be possible based on AMD's newest tech, I never said it was guaranteed to happen, and you have the prices mixed up between different potential portable hardware. "Probably, maybe" seems to fit quite well since it's a post about "if" PS makes a Switch, and "if" it could succeed.

All esle is feasable, exept for one huge part: power consumption. The ps4 is a piwer guzzler compared to the switch. The original ps4 uses 89 watts. The slim uses 45 or so. But the switch uses a measily 5 watts if you don't factor its screen, while playing games. And the switch has a pretty big bettery if you are not going for stuff like apple's modular, form fitting batteries which cost a ton to make.

 

Storage space is also an issue but we all knew that. Switch can only fit 2? A ps4p with 128 gigs woyld barely be able to fit 1 if at all!



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EricHiggin said:
Conina said:

After the transfer you sell the game or give the disc back to your friend since the handheld can't check on the go if you still have access to the disc.

How would the copy protection work with this system? Account binding of retail games via entering a code / CD-key? That would piss off many people.

Regular checks via internet if the disc is still in the docking station? Then you can not switch between games on the go.

Well PS can make it so the disc binds to a max of 1 or 2 account's at the same time when it initially loads the game from the dock onto the handheld. If you have another friend who want's the game, you can delete/transfer the game from your account so they can load and add it to their's, but you of course cannot play anymore unless they delete/transfer it from their account. That way you can share without much hassle. This allows you to share with 1 friend at a time, but as many as you want over time, and also basically stops you from selling the game after the fact, unless it's to a retail outlet that can verify your used game has all account's open to it for the next purchaser. Maybe it also has a transfer button where you can simply input the buyers PSN ID and transfer the game account to them, otherwise people would not want to buy the game privately, not knowing if there were any account's available for it. If you could do this on the spot however, private sales could happen with some confidence, except for the possibility that the copy of the game your selling them isn't the same one that is tied to your account. That's an unlikely scenario, but possible. PS could potentially charge a small fee for this private transaction as well. I think by this time, many PS4 games will be cheap enough that people will still just buy the game directly from retail anyway. You will still get some game sharing regardless. PS5 games being new and more expensive would probably end up being shared more.

How would that work? Do Blu-rays have a writable area when the information can be stored how often the game is activated? Blu-rays aren't unique... each Blu-ray disc of a game of the same gold master is the same. If 10 other people install/transfer the game from the same disc, the other systems wouldn't know how often it has been installed/transfered before. An account binding with Blu-rays without entering an unique code ain't possible!



FattyDingDong said:

Sony has recently said that despite the fact that they have been selling extraordinary amount of consoles this holiday they cannot ignore Nintendo's switch.  Nintendo Switch is truly a very unique and intriguing concept,  if Sony were to challenge Nintendo and released their own version of the Switch would it fail just like the Vita did. Or perhaps they can learn from their mistakes and really try to push the PS Switch with strong 3rd party support.   What do you think is required of Sony to make a successful version of the Switch?   more powerful?  better online? cheaper price ? 

 

Why pick and choose? It could/should have all the same support as the PS4.

Just make it able to play any PS4 game, at say 1/2 resolution (when handheld).

Do what nintendo does, ship it with say 64gb internal memory, and tell people they ll need to go buy a microSD card, if they want more space.



it would not work unless you just make a ps4 portable capable of playing all the videogames in the ps4 catalogue. It does not make sense right now since it would not make them sell more games. And they still struggle to have exclusives and good games for the VR, so confusing developers and costumers with a totally different console makes no sense.
IT would be amazing to have a portable console that's able to run every single playstation game from ps1 to ps4. Many people would buy it I think, but that's not easy since ps3 had very particular architecture.



EricHiggin said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Yeah, combine that with $250 portable then it for sure will be more expensive than $300 if they want indie games too. Also, Sony can't compress game like Nintendo to have much smaller data size than from disk to SD card. In 2020, New Switch with new Tegra chip can come out with Pokemon so good luck to that. I still can't understand how ps5 will come out in 2020 with $400 price but PS4/5 portable is only $250 at the same time. Not even Apple or Nvidia can do that. AMD have never ever make the top mobile chip but in 2020 they can make ps5 portable chip cost $250 because you said so. WOW. And the word "probably, maybe" is a wishful thinking for now at best

The $250 is more so based on using mostly existing PS4 internal hardware. A PS5 Ryzen based unit would likely be more expensive, but not necessarily all that much more. A PS4 SS around 2019 should only cost $199 max, and the portable would only need a screen and battery on top of that, so $250 should easily be doable for the entire handheld and dock. $300 worst case scenario if they were to launch it with a more than reasonable amount of storage. There also would be nothing stopping PS from subsidizing the hybrid $50 to $100 at retail if they feel that's necessary to compete.

Switch also requires micro SD for expansion storage for extra games, and online isn't free, so it's clearly much more expensive than $300 as well. Apparently PS doesn't have the tech to compress as well as Nin does, but there's no saying someone else doesn't, that PS could pay to use. However, Vita game file sizes aren't that large though, like Killzone is 4.0GB and Uncharted is 3.5GB, while Zelda on Switch is 13.5GB. The majority of Vita games look to be around 1.0GB on average. Nin's games also don't tend to have the same level of assets that AAA games have, which allows Nin's games to have smaller file sizes in general.

PS5 costing $400 is a strong guess based on the massive success of the PS4 and much lesser sales of XB1, but we don't know what the cost of it is actually going to be. For all we know it ends up $500, assuming XB2 is $500 since XB seems to be stuck on that price. Maybe PS decides to have a $350-$400 PS5 hybrid and a standard dedicated 4k PS5 home console for $500. I said it "should" be possible based on AMD's newest tech, I never said it was guaranteed to happen, and you have the prices mixed up between different potential portable hardware. "Probably, maybe" seems to fit quite well since it's a post about "if" PS makes a Switch, and "if" it could succeed.

Remember the ps portable is 720p or even 1080p while vita is only 540p and in fact, how many games on vita that run on native resolution or majority is sub res ? Don't compared a SD portable to a HD, also, Sony game always take at least 30-40GB. To have best graphic on the system no way they compress it like Nintendo who doesn't care about cutting edge graphic or something like that. The ps portable you told me will exceed even Switch 2 power, because it is ps5 handheld, you think it will have small data size like Vita? Isn't you are one of those people who told me don't compare the new ps portable to vita? And why you compared vita size game to Switch? You know Switch came out this year and it is at least 10 times stronger than vita, right? If you compare data size, take a look at 3ds vs vita, none 3ds game go over 4GB while some games on vita is more than 4GB like Summon Night 6



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EricHiggin said:

The $250 is more so based on using mostly existing PS4 internal hardware. A PS5 Ryzen based unit would likely be more expensive, but not necessarily all that much more. A PS4 SS around 2019 should only cost $199 max, and the portable would only need a screen and battery on top of that, so $250 should easily be doable for the entire handheld and dock. $300 worst case scenario if they were to launch it with a more than reasonable amount of storage.

Getting the same performance in a much smaller formfactor costs a lot. Miniturization is expensive.

See laptop prices compared to desktop PCs with similar performance... or ultrabook prices compared to bigger and heavier laptops with similar performance. Or the GPD Win 2 compared to a notebook with similar performance.



TheBraveGallade said:

All esle is feasable, exept for one huge part: power consumption. The ps4 is a piwer guzzler compared to the switch. The original ps4 uses 89 watts. The slim uses 45 or so. But the switch uses a measily 5 watts if you don't factor its screen, while playing games. And the switch has a pretty big bettery if you are not going for stuff like apple's modular, form fitting batteries which cost a ton to make.

Storage space is also an issue but we all knew that. Switch can only fit 2? A ps4p with 128 gigs woyld barely be able to fit 1 if at all!

PS4 in console format with 16nm right now still uses too much power yes, that's why it would have to wait for 7nm around 2019. This gives PS 2-3 years over Switch to use a more advanced battery, and also take advantage of price drops. PS4 games like HZD are part of the reason the console uses so much power, but if you dial the games back, they will require less power and less space. 128GB would fit 2 large AAA games as they are right now based on the PS4 S, but it would probably end up 3-4 AAA with the games scaled back. Switch has some very large third party games that also would only allow 1-2 games on it's storage. Luckily Switch has carts, and also has space for micro SD like the PS Portable would have. Doesn't mean a PS Portable couldn't exist because of this.

Conina said:

How would that work? Do Blu-rays have a writable area when the information can be stored how often the game is activated? Blu-rays aren't unique... each Blu-ray disc of a game of the same gold master is the same. If 10 other people install/transfer the game from the same disc, the other systems wouldn't know how often it has been installed/transfered before. An account binding with Blu-rays without entering an unique code ain't possible!

I thought each BD had a unique code, if not, the UPC or another one of the codes on the game box could work potentially. I'm not sure if those codes are unique either. If not then possibly PS could produce specific portable versions of the game with some type of code attached, since remasters have done so well on PS4, or use carts in this case. They could also just make it digital only but this would limit it's sales to some degree. I guess PS could also do something like have a camera on the handheld and ask for verification where you hold up the game box UPC to the camera and scan it once a week. The day it asks you for the scan if gives you 24 hours from that point before it locks you out. That way you know every 7 days you will need to scan and can easily and quickly do it all at once if you want since it would only be a 2-6 titles most likely. This also stops you from sharing the game too much since those other people would need the box to scan as well. Unless you and all of your friends purposely installed the game on the same day so you could all get together and scan the game box at the same time. Since these physical only gamers like having their physical copies around, i don't see this being a huge headache, as long as it's not an everyday or every other day scan. PS could even charge like $2.00 to postpone the scan an extra week if your going away on vacation or business and don't want to bring the box.

HoangNhatAnh said:

Remember the ps portable is 720p or even 1080p while vita is only 540p and in fact, how many games on vita that run on native resolution or majority is sub res ? Don't compared a SD portable to a HD, also, Sony game always take at least 30-40GB. To have best graphic on the system no way they compress it like Nintendo who doesn't care about cutting edge graphic or something like that. The ps portable you told me will exceed even Switch 2 power, because it is ps5 handheld, you think it will have small data size like Vita? Isn't you are one of those people who told me don't compare the new ps portable to vita? And why you compared vita size game to Switch? You know Switch came out this year and it is at least 10 times stronger than vita, right? If you compare data size, take a look at 3ds vs vita, none 3ds game go over 4GB while some games on vita is more than 4GB like Summon Night 6

PS Portable being the best? I said it wouldn't even have to be as good as Switch 2, as long as it's close enough. I even mentioned PS4 and Pro in comparison to XB1X to prove this is true. It doesn't have to be the best hardware, just good enough. Your clearly confused about what was said and who said it. My point about Vita is you make it sound like PS4 games can't be any smaller than they are, when in reality they can be. I never said how small they would end up, but pretending like PS4 games are all locked at 60GB is extremely closed minded, considering the Pro 4k versions are not the same size.

Conina said:

Getting the same performance in a much smaller formfactor costs a lot. Miniturization is expensive.

See laptop prices compared to desktop PCs with similar performance... or ultrabook prices compared to bigger and heavier laptops with similar performance. Or the GPD Win 2 compared to a notebook with similar performance.

See PS4 S $300 vs PS4 $349 vs Pro $399 vs PC with RX 470/480 $499+. I also mentioned multiple times that the games would not be running at full spec.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

EricHiggin said:
TheBraveGallade said:

All esle is feasable, exept for one huge part: power consumption. The ps4 is a piwer guzzler compared to the switch. The original ps4 uses 89 watts. The slim uses 45 or so. But the switch uses a measily 5 watts if you don't factor its screen, while playing games. And the switch has a pretty big bettery if you are not going for stuff like apple's modular, form fitting batteries which cost a ton to make.

Storage space is also an issue but we all knew that. Switch can only fit 2? A ps4p with 128 gigs woyld barely be able to fit 1 if at all!

PS4 in console format with 16nm right now still uses too much power yes, that's why it would have to wait for 7nm around 2019. This gives PS 2-3 years over Switch to use a more advanced battery, and also take advantage of price drops. PS4 games like HZD are part of the reason the console uses so much power, but if you dial the games back, they will require less power and less space. 128GB would fit 2 large AAA games as they are right now based on the PS4 S, but it would probably end up 3-4 AAA with the games scaled back. Switch has some very large third party games that also would only allow 1-2 games on it's storage. Luckily Switch has carts, and also has space for micro SD like the PS Portable would have. Doesn't mean a PS Portable couldn't exist because of this.

Conina said:

How would that work? Do Blu-rays have a writable area when the information can be stored how often the game is activated? Blu-rays aren't unique... each Blu-ray disc of a game of the same gold master is the same. If 10 other people install/transfer the game from the same disc, the other systems wouldn't know how often it has been installed/transfered before. An account binding with Blu-rays without entering an unique code ain't possible!

I thought each BD had a unique code, if not, the UPC or another one of the codes on the game box could work potentially. I'm not sure if those codes are unique either. If not then possibly PS could produce specific portable versions of the game with some type of code attached, since remasters have done so well on PS4, or use carts in this case. They could also just make it digital only but this would limit it's sales to some degree. I guess PS could also do something like have a camera on the handheld and ask for verification where you hold up the game box UPC to the camera and scan it once a week. The day it asks you for the scan if gives you 24 hours from that point before it locks you out. That way you know every 7 days you will need to scan and can easily and quickly do it all at once if you want since it would only be a 2-6 titles most likely. This also stops you from sharing the game too much since those other people would need the box to scan as well. Unless you and all of your friends purposely installed the game on the same day so you could all get together and scan the game box at the same time. Since these physical only gamers like having their physical copies around, i don't see this being a huge headache, as long as it's not an everyday or every other day scan. PS could even charge like $2.00 to postpone the scan an extra week if your going away on vacation or business and don't want to bring the box.

HoangNhatAnh said:

Remember the ps portable is 720p or even 1080p while vita is only 540p and in fact, how many games on vita that run on native resolution or majority is sub res ? Don't compared a SD portable to a HD, also, Sony game always take at least 30-40GB. To have best graphic on the system no way they compress it like Nintendo who doesn't care about cutting edge graphic or something like that. The ps portable you told me will exceed even Switch 2 power, because it is ps5 handheld, you think it will have small data size like Vita? Isn't you are one of those people who told me don't compare the new ps portable to vita? And why you compared vita size game to Switch? You know Switch came out this year and it is at least 10 times stronger than vita, right? If you compare data size, take a look at 3ds vs vita, none 3ds game go over 4GB while some games on vita is more than 4GB like Summon Night 6

PS Portable being the best? I said it wouldn't even have to be as good as Switch 2, as long as it's close enough. I even mentioned PS4 and Pro in comparison to XB1X to prove this is true. It doesn't have to be the best hardware, just good enough. Your clearly confused about what was said and who said it. My point about Vita is you make it sound like PS4 games can't be any smaller than they are, when in reality they can be. I never said how small they would end up, but pretending like PS4 games are all locked at 60GB is extremely closed minded, considering the Pro 4k versions are not the same size.

Conina said:

Getting the same performance in a much smaller formfactor costs a lot. Miniturization is expensive.

See laptop prices compared to desktop PCs with similar performance... or ultrabook prices compared to bigger and heavier laptops with similar performance. Or the GPD Win 2 compared to a notebook with similar performance.

See PS4 S $300 vs PS4 $349 vs Pro $399 vs PC with RX 470/480 $499+. I also mentioned multiple times that the games would not be running at full spec.

Many games are not on Vita because they are too big. You know almost all Western AAA games that are not on Vita, only Japan third parties are, and it still miss a lot AAA JP games, even AA too. How to the next ps portable get these game physically if not for very big cart? 



I just wanted to chime in on the storage format.

Digital is closing in of 50% market share on PS4 right now. If PS4 Portable comes out in 2019, digital would likely be close to 60% of all new game purchases. I believe that the any portablized PS4 or other furture PlayStation Mobile/Portable/Switch should be a digital only device.

The purpose of the device to me would be to get people using the PlayStation Store more, by driving up the time people are present in the ecosystem, and increasing the value of the content by offering it across more form factors.

Obviously there would be people that would absolutely refuse a product without physical formats, but if the majority has moved to digital, that is the direction things should take. I could even see Sony picking up sales by people selling off their physical games and replacing them with digital titles. I did this myself on PS3 for certain titles I wanted in my collection, and I know others that have done the same during this gen. Having the added value of being able to play the digital copy at home and on the go would drive this even more.

Solid State Storage is going to be seeing major increases in capacity, and major drops in price. You can pick up a 500GB M.2 SATAIII drive right now for $149.99. By the end of 2019, that price will be dramatically cheaper at the consumer level, and would be even less for Sony. Sony could move the PS4 Super Slim to 500GB of M.2 or Embbed Flash on the board, making it much smaller and cheaper to produce. With all PS4's supporting external storage, this is even more logical than the 12GB PS3 Super Slims. This would make the PS4 Super Slim and PS4 Switch even more related, and again drive down R&D cost. It would also speed up every aspect of the system, which is great for a portable unit.

As I am typing this, I am starting to wonder if the PS4 Super Slim itself won't just end up being the PlayStation Switch. Or at least come in two form factors. One with a Blu-ray drive, and one with a dock and no Blu-ray drive.

Having a Switch like Super Slim, docking, and swapping out games to the internal memory from an extrenal drive would be super easy. If you had an external SSD, the transfers would be extreamly fast.

That sounds pretty damn plausible to me. At the very least it is definitly an option.



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HoangNhatAnh said:

Many games are not on Vita because they are too big. You know almost all Western AAA games that are not on Vita, only Japan third parties are, and it still miss a lot AAA JP games, even AA too. How to the next ps portable get these game physically if not for very big cart? 

Maybe PS only requires the disc be in the drive when the handheld is docked? It wouldn't be as simple as Switch docking, and it would allow for extra game sharing for those who only ever played their games in handheld mode I guess. If the PS Store version of the games were cheap enough, it would really inhibit physical sales, which would be a good thing for PS and the pubs overall. PS could even have a system set up where you trade your physical version of the game at certain retailers for a digital copy. What kind of extra currency transaction may occur with that I'm not sure, but as long as it was low enough and reasonable it would work well. PS did make it clear at E3 2013 that they were all for sharing as well remember, so.

By the looks of it, same likely applies to Switch, since it's carts aren't large enough, it's not getting certain games. Also 'Switch tax'.

KBG29 said:
I just wanted to chime in on the storage format.

Digital is closing in of 50% market share on PS4 right now. If PS4 Portable comes out in 2019, digital would likely be close to 60% of all new game purchases. I believe that the any portablized PS4 or other furture PlayStation Mobile/Portable/Switch should be a digital only device.

The purpose of the device to me would be to get people using the PlayStation Store more, by driving up the time people are present in the ecosystem, and increasing the value of the content by offering it across more form factors.

Obviously there would be people that would absolutely refuse a product without physical formats, but if the majority has moved to digital, that is the direction things should take. I could even see Sony picking up sales by people selling off their physical games and replacing them with digital titles. I did this myself on PS3 for certain titles I wanted in my collection, and I know others that have done the same during this gen. Having the added value of being able to play the digital copy at home and on the go would drive this even more.

Solid State Storage is going to be seeing major increases in capacity, and major drops in price. You can pick up a 500GB M.2 SATAIII drive right now for $149.99. By the end of 2019, that price will be dramatically cheaper at the consumer level, and would be even less for Sony. Sony could move the PS4 Super Slim to 500GB of M.2 or Embbed Flash on the board, making it much smaller and cheaper to produce. With all PS4's supporting external storage, this is even more logical than the 12GB PS3 Super Slims. This would make the PS4 Super Slim and PS4 Switch even more related, and again drive down R&D cost. It would also speed up every aspect of the system, which is great for a portable unit.

As I am typing this, I am starting to wonder if the PS4 Super Slim itself won't just end up being the PlayStation Switch. Or at least come in two form factors. One with a Blu-ray drive, and one with a dock and no Blu-ray drive.

Having a Switch like Super Slim, docking, and swapping out games to the internal memory from an extrenal drive would be super easy. If you had an external SSD, the transfers would be extreamly fast.

That sounds pretty damn plausible to me. At the very least it is definitly an option.

I could see PS potentially 'dropping' PS4 SS and just having the hybrid if it can really be the whole package by then. Even if it ends up at $250 instead of $199, they could always see how it sells at that price as a hybrid, or just sub it $50 and stay at the desired $199. Especially if the handheld works as a standard PS4 while docked, which may require extra cooling in the dock, but that should be a very small cost. On board storage shouldn't be all that much of a problem either, like you said, prices are falling quickly. Switch wanted to get out the door quickly not only because of the Wii U but also to be the first on the market, which has it's upsides in terms of mind share, but downsides in terms of hardware capability and cost.

Digital definitely is doable, but like you said, some will refuse that entirely. PS could offer a handheld only version, with a generic dock very much like Switch, and a premium version with a dock that includes a BD drive and 1TB hdd/500GB ssd. $199 for the generic version, $250 - $299 for the premium. For those that are willing, the basic version costs them $199 and they can spend $50 and get a 500GB ssd/2TB hdd external to plug in. The unwilling, simply pay more for the convenience of the entire package, which also helps subsidize the cost for the physical only crowd. You would also probably have the option of a $299 Pro in 2019 if all you wanted was a dedicated home console, for slightly more if not the same price as the premium PS4 hybrid. I have a hard time seeing a Pro Premium for $400 since it probably wouldn't be all that more capable than XB1X, and having a $299 Pro, and a $499 Pro Premium seems unlikely, unless it has all the bells and whistles like 4k BD, etc. Even then PS may not cross that $399 line no matter what.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 30 December 2017

PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.