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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
Flilix said:
Errorist76 said:

 

My point is that the Old Testament is just as cruel and medieval. It’s the way you interpret it with a modern mind that matters, not the medieval minds that wrote it.

That said, it is true that Islam in some way would benefit from some sort of reformation and first movements in this direction are already happening worldwide.

Of course it's cruel and outdated, I never said it's not. Luckily, there are very few people here who still take these stories seriously.

You mean Seth didn't have to have sex with his sisters to propagate the human race?  Thank god my name can finally be cleared now.



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sethnintendo said:
Flilix said:

Of course it's cruel and outdated, I never said it's not. Luckily, there are very few people here who still take these stories seriously.

You mean Seth didn't have to have sex with his sisters to propagate the human race?  Thank god my name can finally be cleared now.

Hahaha



S.T.A.G.E. said:

Yes....there seems to be a disconnect in logic here. The inquisition was handled by the state which is why in our country we have a separation of church and state. You leave your people at the mercy of religious zealots if you let them have power. Thats why we handle things in a secular fashion. It allows us to welcome all religions and have people come here and worship freely without people taking sides.

Islamic believers and people who live in major islamic territories do not have to speak or apologize for radicals because they've been terrorizing them far more than they have with us. 

That is a matter of opinion, maybe they do, maybe they don't.

By the same logic, nazis that DID NOT take part in massacres or killings of anyone should not be considered as having any responsibility in the events of WW2.

In my opinion they DO have a responsibility. NOT the same level of responsibility as those having committed the crimes but they still have chosen to follow a political system that is responsible for committing heinous crimes.

Though in the public opinion NOBODY speaks of making a difference between nazis that committed crimes and those who did not. This is so much so that I sometimes hear people say "During WW2 The Germans did this and the Germans did that" which COULD be considered racist as not all Germans were nazis.

The point is nazism is nazism and while I believe a nazi that never killed anyone should not be held directly accountable for the crimes of the others, such nazi still chose to follow that political vision that led to the horrible crimes we all know about.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Yes....there seems to be a disconnect in logic here. The inquisition was handled by the state which is why in our country we have a separation of church and state. You leave your people at the mercy of religious zealots if you let them have power. Thats why we handle things in a secular fashion. It allows us to welcome all religions and have people come here and worship freely without people taking sides.

Islamic believers and people who live in major islamic territories do not have to speak or apologize for radicals because they've been terrorizing them far more than they have with us. 

That is a matter of opinion, maybe they do, maybe they don't.

By the same logic, nazis that DID NOT take part in massacres or killings of anyone should not be considered as having any responsibility in the events of WW2.

In my opinion they DO have a responsibility. NOT the same level of responsibility as those having committed the crimes but they still have chosen to follow a political system that is responsible for committing heinous crimes.

Though in the public opinion NOBODY speaks of making a difference between nazis that committed crimes and those who did not. This is so much so that I sometimes hear people say "During WW2 The Germans did this and the Germans did that" which COULD be considered racist as not all Germans were nazis.

The point is nazism is nazism and while I believe a nazi that never killed anyone should not be held directly accountable for the crimes of the others, such nazi still chose to follow that political vision that led to the horrible crimes we all know about.

That is not an opinion and I suggest you do research. You seem to not be able to tell the difference between a terrorist group which has operations in different places and a state government. Terrorist groups are organizations. If there were not people in islamic countries fighting against terrorist organizations. I think the issue you're having is not being able to tell the difference between a terrorist organization and a religious faith that is akin to christianity and judaism because they all follow the same god and the same prophet. They problem they all have is that they have some altered interpretations based on time of composition and they all have seen their main prophet or messiah of choice or are still waiting . So essentially, religiously, they are cousins under the family tree of abrahamic religions. Nazi's were a poltiical party who ran a whole nation, there is a difference. 

Last edited by S.T.A.G.E. - on 30 November 2017

Errorist76 said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Except I'm not hating, I'm criticizing. You interpret criticism as hate in order to justify your side of the argument.

And something is not racist just cause you decided to call it racism. Just saying.

Let me repeat it one last time to be clear: Islam (like christianity, buddhism or hinduism) are religions or religious philosophies in the case of buddhism and disagreeing with those or calling out their crimes or barbaric behaviors is NOT racism. I DO NOT have a problem with a person cause that person was born in America, the Middle East, Europe or anywhere else. I DO NOT have a problem with a person cause that person was born white, black, yellow or any other color.

I DO have a problem with a person that CHOOSES to follow a barbaric religion, politics or anything else that results in crimes against humanity. And anyone trying to defend or justify such crimes under the false argument of this being a race thing is either very ignorant or so stuck with PC that he or she does not even see right from wrong anymore.

Did you read Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler?! Are you saying him wasn’t racist as well?!

His ideas were mostly based on race, rather than religion. So yeah, it was certainly racist.



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Errorist76 said:

Did you read Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler?! Are you saying him wasn’t racist as well?!

What???

Could you please not obfuscate the issue? It's complex enough as it is without obfuscating.

OF COURSE Hitler was racist, where did you see me say Hitler was not?



Errorist76 said:

And now go f’ yourself!

(Sorry mods, I’m done with this topic...sorry for thread ripping, but I guess in some way it sadly correlates a lot with what this thread was about initially.)

What a nice fellow that you are. Do you lose it every time someone stands up to your PC spiel or are you making an exception for me?

No need to reply, my question was rhetorical.

We finally agree on something: To be done with each other.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
CosmicSex said:

There are about 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.  Targeting them all solely based on their religion is bigotry.  There are 2.2 billions Christians in the world.  I imagine that if we count up all of the crimes that were committed by Christians they would equal or exceed Muslim crimes.  But we aren't going to ban Christians because that is bigotry.  If the President sent out videos of Christians committing crimes to characterize the whole of Christianity, there would rightly so be outrage.  Only simple minded people can be controlled with macro level mindsets like 'something's wrong with the Muslims'.  You mindset is cancerous and dangerous and worst of all, its not even your own idea.   

I imagine in a few thousand years when both religions are dead, we will find something else as stupid to target each other about.  I would say the same thing to a Muslim who uses propaganda against Christians. 

Please remind me when was the last time a christian blew himself up screaming Jesus is the greatest and in the process killing a whole bunch of innocent people in ANY city of the world, whether in the west or in the middle east?

And FYI I don't defend crimes made by Christians or any other group. For example I don't defend nazis under the excuse that all nazis did not kill or that most neo-nazis weren't even born when WW2 war crimes happened. So why would I defend islam's crimes? Cause it's a religion it has the right to a special treatment? Not on my watch.

You logical fallacies don't work on me.  1.8 billion people are not defined by the actions of a few who claim ownership of an IDEA that is NOT theirs.  You know, the religion itself.  Secondly, NO ONE asked you to defend anyone's crimes.  Your problem is conflating crimes of people who claim to follow Islam as 'Islam's crimes'.  You are so utterly lost. I remember think like you.  When the guy in Texas burst into the church and killed all of those people, we say that that man is the criminal, not white me, or Christian men.  His actions don't define the belief system of 2.2 billion Christians or all white men.  NOW: take that simple idea and apply it to this.  Wake up.  Extremists don't form religions, they find already established ones and use those to 'justify' their actions. 



SpokenTruth said:

Try reading the Bible sometime.  It's pretty damn vicious and ruthless at points.  Stoning, beatings, rapes, killings, sacrifices, all sanctioned, approved and recommended.

Most Christians have never actually read the full Bible.  They only hear the very selective passages that get read to them on Sundays.  Pslam 137 suggests you bash an infant against rocks if their parents slight or betray you.

More specifically, an analysis of the Quran and Old Testament shows the latter is more than twice as violent than the former.  It even notes the New Testament is slightly more violent than the Quran.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

AGAIN in what universe did you hear me defend the Bible? And what gave you the idea that I'm christian?

I'm an atheist and a freethinker.

And yes the bible is vicious and ruthless in some parts and it contradicts itself too. For example: God loves us all but if we don't blindly follow his commands like good little brainwashed drones, we will burn in hell for ever... but he LOVES US (as George Carlin said in such a smart way) or better yet, Genesis: Adam and Eve were punished and banished from Eden because they ate an apple they were forbidden to eat. What kind of stupid God does not want people to eat a specific apple and can't think of anything better than to put that tree in front of their noses? And when I read that a long time ago and found out that the apple represented knowledge and not eating it represented what they call "innocence" which I call by its real name: IGNORANCE, I was like: why does a so called loving God want his children to be ignorant? Makes no sense to me... Long story short I am not one to fall for all that nonsense, don't worry.

To me Jesus was a political agitator of his time, a guy that started some kind of socio-political movement and he made the mistake of brushing against the powers of the time and he ended up condemned to death because of that. It's the church who some 300 years later decided among all the people in the past that that guy called Jesus should be their mascot, the son of God. It suited the church and the political context of their time to name Jesus as their savior.



SpokenTruth said:
Seems again you cannot separate the religion from the actions of crazed individuals. Terrorism is not sponsored by Islam nor is it condoned by Mulsims. So why are you equating them?

Your Nazi equivalence fails because they DID support what Hitler was doing. They supported it. Muslims do not support terrorist attacks. Why is that difference so difficult for you to grasp?

The major difference between Nazi Germany and the current Islam is that the Islam doesn't have a big unified state with a government that supports the execution of their ideology. If ISIS wasn't opposed so strongly by everyone else, they could easily have established a state where most people support them (and the few who don't, get oppressed, just like in Nazi Germany).

By the way, they do have a fair amount of supporters: