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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Should I buy Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon?"

 

Are you buying ultra sun/moon?

Yes 7 53.85%
 
No 6 46.15%
 
Total:13
mZuzek said:
StarOcean said:

Key takeaway: You'll never get that dream game. Sucks but its true. Any sweeping changes to the forumla wont happen. Pokemon doesnt change, but you as a person do. Like I said, Pokemon isnt even the best in its genre. Try Yokai Watch, SMT, Devil Survivor, or Persona.

Huh, Persona is similar to Pokémon? That's cool. Persona 5 looks awesome, I was always interested in it and have been more and more interested with each day. I'm not sure when I'll get the chance to play it, but I definitely want to.

Monster catching wise, yes. Its parent series, SMT invented the monster catching formula in video games. So its not surprising they have a similar system. Persona 5 has the most Pokemon-like system in the series in regards to catching. However, in Persona instead of using a Pokeball you negotiate with demons. If you negotiate well, you get the demon, if not, you lose a turn and potentially get a game over (losing a turn in a SMT game can be deadly XD). It doesnt handhold at all. The beginning section is slow though. But the game is super stylistic, darker than Pokemon, and a better plot too. If you can handle the slow starts to Pokemon you can prob handle a slow start in Persona. Once a Persona game starts though, man it gets super addictive



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mZuzek said:
flashfire926 said:

In response to the last part: I'm actually happy where the franchise has ended up today. 

The one thing I don't get, is that Sun/Moon were easily the most daring games in the series (alolan forms, ultra beasts, z-moves, removal of gyms, sos battles, removal of hm's, and a general shake-up in the story formula. Don't know how it's getting more "unambitious"

that being said, sorry to see the newer games don't click with you. Hopefully gen 8 on switch brings you back in.

Yeah, I know you're happy with it, that's why I said I hope you're proud.

I don't think I said Sun/Moon were unambitious, though? If I did, well, fuck me. I even admitted to X & Y being rather unambitious despite my love of it. The problem here isn't ambition, but rather where that ambition is directed towards, and I think Sun & Moon took it in absolutely all the wrong directions. Even the stuff they did right (like removing HMs), were still done in a crappy way that leads much to be desired (replacing HMs with silly "ride" Pokémon instead of your own).

I want to believe whatever comes out on the Switch will bring me back in, but it's pretty hard, because well, this is Pokémon. It's not the kind of franchise where they'll just start each game with a blank slate. Pokémon is always continually adding more and more content and not "deleting" anything from its past, so even if the games turn out to be good and don't introduce any more new crappy stuff, I know Alola Forms, Z-moves, Ultra Beasts and Ash-Greninja will still be there. By then, pretty much any "purity" the game might have had is already lost.

StarOcean said:

He does this in every Pokemon thread. Causes him some weird mental meltdown. So next time, ignore him and disregard his "opinions" 

Hey there. Did you know we're both members of the same forum, and are currently participating on the same thread? That being the case, it's actually possible for us to interact with one another directly instead of referring to each other distantly like this. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true.

That said, it's true I might be taking the Pokémon hate too far recently, but if that's the case I'm doing it because I genuinely care (or used to, at least) about this franchise, and am fucking disgusted at where it's gone, and moreso, at how no one seems to care about the absurdly drastic change in direction it's had. In recent days, I've been constantly thinking about my dream Pokémon game, and have thought of several really cool ideas and things that could be done with it, so whenever I go back to real life and see people talking about Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon (god that's such a stupid name...), and remember not only it but also how disappointing I already expect the next games to be, well, that makes me pretty sad.

It's maybe particularly sad because of how things have been lately with Nintendo. Being a Nintendo fan this year has been quite amazing, with loads of franchises getting stellar games left right and center, so when you remember what used to be one of your favorites and see it in this awful state amidst such awesomeness, it's quite the depressing sight.

Umm....how else would you implement that mechanic? Ride a pokemon out of the PC? I dont get it. 

I seriously think gen 8 will be the start of new era. With Sun/Moon, the codename was project rainbow (7 colors for 7 gens), and they also had the tagline "it all comes together".

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that ultra beasts, alolan forms, and ash-greninja wont be there. This will be a start with a clean slate (with the exception of keeping some old pokemon in) due to the huge jump in hardware power. 



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

mZuzek said:
StarOcean said:

Monster catching wise, yes. Its parent series, SMT invented the monster catching formula in video games. So its not surprising they have a similar system. Persona 5 has the most Pokemon-like system in the series in regards to catching. However, in Persona instead of using a Pokeball you negotiate with demons. If you negotiate well, you get the demon, if not, you lose a turn and potentially get a game over (losing a turn in a SMT game can be deadly XD). It doesnt handhold at all. The beginning section is slow though. But the game is super stylistic, darker than Pokemon, and a better plot too. If you can handle the slow starts to Pokemon you can prob handle a slow start in Persona. Once a Persona game starts though, man it gets super addictive

Yeah, that sounds cool. I know nothing about Persona other than it looks cool and it looks like my kind of thing. Now I know a little more, and those points have only been reinforced.

I don't really mind slow starts in games usually. I think the only games I can think of that ever really bored because of overly drawn out intros and tutorials were Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and well, Sun/Moon. But as long as I care about the world-building that's going on and the characters that are being introduced, I'm gonna be having a good time.

That said, I'm going to sleep now. It was good talking to you instead of reading distant passive-aggressive comments.

Write on my wall tomorrow and I can tell you about other Pokemon-like games you may be interested in



mZuzek said:
flashfire926 said:

Umm....how else would you implement that mechanic? Ride a pokemon out of the PC? I dont get it. 

I seriously think gen 8 will be the start of new era. With Sun/Moon, the codename was project rainbow (7 colors for 7 gens), and they also had the tagline "it all comes together".

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that ultra beasts, alolan forms, and ash-greninja wont be there. This will be a start with a clean slate (with the exception of keeping some old pokemon in) due to the huge jump in hardware power. 

Why, it's quite simple. You have a Pokémon that can swim (surf if you will), it can give you a ride in water. You have a Pokémon that would make a good mount, you can ride on it. You have a Pokémon that has claws, it can cut that stupid tree. You know, it is possible to have your own traversal possibilities determined by your team without having to rely on HMs, random ride Pokémon that are just given to you yet can't be used in battle or literally anything else aren't the only solution.

I hope you're right about it being a sort of reboot, because Pokémon is in dramatic need of one, but I really don't see that happening.

Well, that would be great, but modelling every pokemon that makes a good mount or surfer will take a shit ton of time. And honestly I would like to see my character surfing on an actual pokemon rather than just a blue pad :P (it was part of the effort to increase immersion in the new games, along with things like trainers being behind their pokemon in battle, and more detailed and varied battle backgrounds, as opposed to the select few in X/Y)

And unless you can physically see your pokemon cutting down the tree in the overworld (which it would wildly time consuming to model every mon that could has claws), I dont see how a machamp that shoves rocks around and carries you around at the same time isnt cooler  :P



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

Sun & Moon were a bit of a disappointment, especially after X&Y (which were the best games in a long time). So no, I'm not buying these again.



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Lonely_Dolphin said:
IkePoR said: 

The changes to formula in Sun/Moon weren't because GF gave a shit.  It was because Yo-Kai Watch blew up in Japan. Pokemon is a worldwide hit but GF and Nintendo still care most about the Japanese market.  They will be the most loyal the longest should Pokemon implode and die off elsewhere, or perhaps some other competition takes the world by storm with a monster friend RPG.

Is there proof the changes were because of Yo-kai? Seems like a stretch that they would make such changes just because a game with a similar concept sold really well.

Pokemon had very little changes from gen to gen and was coasting on new creatures and small new features to the series here and there.  Then, suddenly, with SuMo, there are sweeping, huge changes(these are well documented and obvious if you played it).  Most were quality of life changes, but for GF to go so far as to maximize the 3DS' capabilities by using higher quality models in the overworld - when the chibi style would have been just fine - is telling. 

All of these changes right after a few Yo-Kai Watch titles explode in Japan.  It was the first real competition Pokemon had in years.  Like StarOcean said in this thread - Pokemon changes slow -  as it's magic formula so strong that even GameFreak probably doesn't understand what makes it so potent.  They don't change much for years and years, then suddenly - no gyms, no HM's, much snappier UI's, etc.  Things they didn't even care about touching before are suddenly ditched.

So there's no causation, but there's certainly correlation.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

I was going to get the original Sun or Moon for the longest time and then the Switch happened and took the wind right out of my sails. I like Pokemon games but as cool as 3DS is and was, I just can't go back now.



I know my review isn't stellar, but I was sort of expecting the conversation to be about Ultra Sun/Moon and not about whether the series is a disappointment or not lmao



mZuzek said:
pleaserecycle said:

I agree with you, but unfortunately we're the minority.  

I'm not sure you and I are in the same minority here.

Most people stopped caring about Pokémon after the 1st or 2nd generations, and I've also seen some that never moved beyond the 5th. I think Pokémon hit its absolute top form in the early 2010's, followed by an instant self-destruction after X & Y, when Junichi Masuda stopped directing the games and passed that on to Shigeru Ohmori. (Curiously, the most prominent exodus of Pokémon fans, which was after the 2nd generation, also had a director change, with Masuda taking over from Satoshi Tajiri.)

Pokémon games continuously top sales charts and receive stellar reviews.  People like the new direction of Pokémon.

 

I enjoyed the look and feel of the islands and the trials in Sun and Moon, but not much else.  They're throwing too many gimmicks in the games.  Megs this ultra that.  Pet your Pokémon.  Feed your Pokémon.  I wish I could just ignore most of it, but they force it on the players.

 



IkePoR said: 

Pokemon had very little changes from gen to gen and was coasting on new creatures and small new features to the series here and there.  Then, suddenly, with SuMo, there are sweeping, huge changes(these are well documented and obvious if you played it).  Most were quality of life changes, but for GF to go so far as to maximize the 3DS' capabilities by using higher quality models in the overworld - when the chibi style would have been just fine - is telling. 

All of these changes right after a few Yo-Kai Watch titles explode in Japan.  It was the first real competition Pokemon had in years.  Like StarOcean said in this thread - Pokemon changes slow -  as it's magic formula so strong that even GameFreak probably doesn't understand what makes it so potent.  They don't change much for years and years, then suddenly - no gyms, no HM's, much snappier UI's, etc.  Things they didn't even care about touching before are suddenly ditched.

So there's no causation, but there's certainly correlation.

So no proof then. :L

I just think Sun & Moon were the natural progression that woulda happened regardless of Yo-Kai. Using the full models in the overworld is akin to what B&W did giving each Pokemon actual animations. Also I'm gonna wait until we see the next game before saying for sure that Gyms are done. Unless every region from now on is a group of islands then the Island Trial concept can't continue me thinks.