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Forums - Gaming - A good example of why Sony Consoles always succeed.

S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

They had to save blu ray or else the venture would've been a failure. Yes, I'll agree they came off like a bunch off snobs.later on I read up on it and understood their position because Sony has a track record of influencing playback formats  formats inside and outside the gaming industry. I went on the 360 and was apart of he Wii60 group. Remember that? (Lol)once uncharted 2 came out I jumped on the PS3 and fell in love with Sony all over again. This one their first party got stronger.

the Wii didn't scoop up the ps2 casual base though (or well even a substantial amount). That was a new market of casuals who don't traditionally game on consoles. If you look at the PS3 and 360s lifetime sales Microsoft capitalized on sonys mistakes by shaving off half of their previous market share. They both had over 160+ million consoles between them which was what the ps2 sold. The reason people noticed nintnendos market wasn't traditional was because hardcore third party games found it hard to make major profit off of a 100 million selling platform and Nintendos first party was selling brilliantly. I was happy for them.

I don't buy for a second that the 70 million PS2 buyers who never got a PS3 all went to Microsoft. Wii and PS2 were both the go-to mainstream of their generation, naturally there would be overlap.

Explain how Microsoft gained nearly 60 million 360 units the gen after the PS3 which allowed them to maintain strong software sales. Sony built that market up after they expanded the market to twice its size after they dethroned nintnedo. Nintnedo had bad third party software sales. For a console that sold 100 million consoles sold. Most websites credited Nintendo with finding a way to sell their product to casuals to who don't generally game at all. They circumvented Sony instead of competing with them. Since Microsoft was competing to woo gamers away from Sony nintnedo was surely not going to petition third parties for their games afterwards. Anyway, the software sales on the Wii does not equate to that of the ps2 which pushed far more software in quantity and quality from third party even though it was fewer for first party.



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Dante9 on 29 June 2017
Jumpin said:

Just to debunk this post. Games of the year based on general consensus (http://www.gamerankings.com/) and sales (http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2017/Global/):

Review scores:
2006 - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (94.58%)
2007 - Super Mario Galaxy (97.64%)
2008 - Grand Theft Auto IV (97.04%)
2009 - Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (96.43%)
2010 - Super Mario Galaxy 2 (97.35%)
2011 - Batman: Arkham City (95.94%)
2012 - Persona 4 Golden (94.16%)
2013 - Grand Theft Auto V (97.01%)
2014 - Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (92.39%)
2015 - Undertale (94.11%)
2016 - INSIDE (92.81%)
2017 - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (97.28%)

Sales:
2006 -New Super Mario Bros. (DS) - 8,001,240
2007 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 14,794,664 (#2 was Pokemon Diamond, highest ranked Sony game was Motorstorm, only ranked 17th)
2008 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 21,842,013 (#2 was Mario Kart Wii, GTA 4 ranked 7th place was the highest Sony game)
2009 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 18,788,738 (#2 was Wii Sports Resort, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 was Sony's highest at #8)
2010 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 15,218,276 (#2 was Wii Sports Resort again, Call of Duty again for Sony at #5)
2011 - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (X360) - 12,561,893
2012 - Call of Duty: Black Ops II (X360) - 10,425,836
2013 - Grand Theft Auto V (PS3) - 16,894,054
2014 - Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (3DS) - 7,527,047
2015 - Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 (PS4) - 10,556,687
2016 - Pokemon Sun/Moon (3DS) - 12,028,382
2017 - Horizon: Zero Dawn (PS4) - 2,875,704 (Zelda will be #1 on the next update or two, since Horizon is done selling, and Zelda, currently at 2,837,078, is catching up quickly as it continues to sell as Switch sells).

Review scores for Nintendo games only tell us that Nintendo fans like Nintendo games, duh. The point is that the majority of gamers won't buy the Nintendo system to rate those games in the first place, because the games are not appealing enough to justify buying the system. Most gamers tend to gravitate towards Playstation more or less every generation, one of the reasons being that they know they will get the most extensive library of games, both first and third party. Sure, the Wii was an exception but it was a mostly a gimmick based fad. Had it been up to the Nintendo faithfuls only, we would have seen something closer to the Wii U numbers.



curl-6 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:

I don't buy for a second that the 70 million PS2 buyers who never got a PS3 all went to Microsoft. Wii and PS2 were both the go-to mainstream of their generation, naturally there would be overlap.

Explain how Microsoft gained nearly 60 million 360 units the gen after the PS3 which allowed them to maintain strong software sales. Sony built that market up after they expanded the market to twice its size after they dethroned nintnedo. Nintnedo had bad third party software sales. For a console that sold 100 million consoles sold. Most websites credited Nintendo with finding a way to sell their product to casuals to who don't generally game at all. They circumvented Sony instead of competing with them. Since Microsoft was competing to woo gamers away from Sony nintnedo was surely not going to petition third parties for their games afterwards. Anyway, the software sales on the Wii does not equate to that of the ps2 which pushed far more software in quantity and quality from third party even though it was fewer for first party.

MS did gain a lot of players from PS2, but you can't seriously tell me that no Wii owners also owned a PS2. I know many who did. The Wii was not insulated from the rest of the console market with no overlap; it was still a video games console competing with other video games consoles for mindshare and money. Sure, it drew in a lot of new gamers, but these do not constitute its entire audience; many people who gamed prior to the Wii owned one.



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
foxtail said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Sony succeeds because their approach to gaming always worked the second they landed in the industry. There was no successful multimedia focused console on sonys level before their entrance. They expanded the market to tech enthusiasts and exposed console gaming to PC where with sega and Nintendo most people in the 90s didn't even consider consoles an option. 

When I think of PC gaming in the 90s I think of FPS games foremost.  And when I think of FPS games on consoles I think of GoldenEye 007 on the N64 which sold 8 Million copies.

Very true. Before Halo there was 007. That was the heavyweight until Medal of Honor and Halo dropped.



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Explain how Microsoft gained nearly 60 million 360 units the gen after the PS3 which allowed them to maintain strong software sales. Sony built that market up after they expanded the market to twice its size after they dethroned nintnedo. Nintnedo had bad third party software sales. For a console that sold 100 million consoles sold. Most websites credited Nintendo with finding a way to sell their product to casuals to who don't generally game at all. They circumvented Sony instead of competing with them. Since Microsoft was competing to woo gamers away from Sony nintnedo was surely not going to petition third parties for their games afterwards. Anyway, the software sales on the Wii does not equate to that of the ps2 which pushed far more software in quantity and quality from third party even though it was fewer for first party.

MS did gain a lot of players from PS2, but you can't seriously tell me that no Wii owners also owned a PS2. I know many who did. The Wii was not insulated from the rest of the console market with no overlap; it was still a video games console competing with other video games consoles for mindshare and money. Sure, it drew in a lot of new gamers, but these do not constitute its entire audience; many people who gamed prior to the Wii owned one.

Im not saying no owners owned the PS2, but for me to discuss the PS2 audience with the Wii, we would have to take into account the software sales. The only element we could use to attribute one group to the other is how well software sold and the overall size of the market.Microsoft didnt increase the market (nor did they count on Sony putting a highly valuable new format into their console, prompting them to sign a deal with HD-DVD and create an addon which flopped), they just maintained it by mirroring the product Sony was delivering and thus when Sony dropped the ball scooped up the gamers with consistent third party and increased Halo sales to record numbers. The large amount of gamers Microsoft took away from the PS2 Shot their software sales into the Statusphere, which the Wii did not for third party unless you were playing Just Dance. The PS2 was known for its high third party sales, even so much so...that third parties to stay exclusive to the PS2 and not have to look elsewhere for profit. The Wii sold to more than just gamers, but the grandparents, moms and dads who dont even game. Where I live, I saw moms by the truckload buying Wii fit. Moms who dont even game at all. Nintendo literally succeeded at circumventing Sonys dominance with the traditional market and creating their own and the sales of software tells the story as to who is buying what.



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Vinther1991 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Explain how Microsoft gained nearly 60 million 360 units the gen after the PS3 which allowed them to maintain strong software sales. Sony built that market up after they expanded the market to twice its size after they dethroned nintnedo. Nintnedo had bad third party software sales. For a console that sold 100 million consoles sold. Most websites credited Nintendo with finding a way to sell their product to casuals to who don't generally game at all. They circumvented Sony instead of competing with them. Since Microsoft was competing to woo gamers away from Sony nintnedo was surely not going to petition third parties for their games afterwards. Anyway, the software sales on the Wii does not equate to that of the ps2 which pushed far more software in quantity and quality from third party even though it was fewer for first party.

In the 6th gen, the PS2 was the go to platform for casual/party gamers, with games like Sing Star, Guitar Hero, dance games and sports games. That audience largely migrated to the Wii in the 7th gen.



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
Vinther1991 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Explain how Microsoft gained nearly 60 million 360 units the gen after the PS3 which allowed them to maintain strong software sales. Sony built that market up after they expanded the market to twice its size after they dethroned nintnedo. Nintnedo had bad third party software sales. For a console that sold 100 million consoles sold. Most websites credited Nintendo with finding a way to sell their product to casuals to who don't generally game at all. They circumvented Sony instead of competing with them. Since Microsoft was competing to woo gamers away from Sony nintnedo was surely not going to petition third parties for their games afterwards. Anyway, the software sales on the Wii does not equate to that of the ps2 which pushed far more software in quantity and quality from third party even though it was fewer for first party.

In the 6th gen, the PS2 was the go to platform for casual/party gamers, with games like Sing Star, Guitar Hero, dance games and sports games. That audience largely migrated to the Wii in the 7th gen.

No. The Eyetoy and party games did not sell as well as you think. They were profitable and thus Sony kept making more iterations. If Singstar was on the Wii, it would've sold far more than it did on the PS2. Sony makes a ton of games in various different places but one thing i've always hated about them is that they dont try to overly influence gamers to buy them. This is why Microsoft purchased natal which was a more powerful eyetoy rode the casual wave the Nintendo created. Sony fails to boast about every secondary product they have outside of the main console. The Eyetoy was profitable and thus they made another iteration of it. They never oversold their casual motion products. Microsoft showed them what to do with their own idea.

The PS2's largest casual draw was that they hard the largest comprehensive list of exclusive titles from 1st, second and third. The level of quality of their third party dominance overshadowed everything. The Wii....was not pandering to the same crowd. In fact, most devs would not port their games. They would make new IP's. Ubisoft was one of the few third parties to truly positively profit off of the Wii. The correlation of software sales is weak.



curl-6 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:

MS did gain a lot of players from PS2, but you can't seriously tell me that no Wii owners also owned a PS2. I know many who did. The Wii was not insulated from the rest of the console market with no overlap; it was still a video games console competing with other video games consoles for mindshare and money. Sure, it drew in a lot of new gamers, but these do not constitute its entire audience; many people who gamed prior to the Wii owned one.

Im not saying no owners owned the PS2, but for me to discuss the PS2 audience with the Wii, we would have to take into account the software sales. The only element we could use to attribute one group to the other is how well software sold and the overall size of the market.Microsoft didnt increase the market (nor did they count on Sony putting a highly valuable new format into their console, prompting them to sign a deal with HD-DVD and create an addon which flopped), they just maintained it by mirroring the product Sony was delivering and thus when Sony dropped the ball scooped up the gamers with consistent third party and increased Halo sales to record numbers. The large amount of gamers Microsoft took away from the PS2 Shot their software sales into the Statusphere, which the Wii did not for third party unless you were playing Just Dance. The PS2 was known for its high third party sales, even so much so...that third parties to stay exclusive to the PS2 and not have to look elsewhere for profit. The Wii sold to more than just gamers, but the grandparents, moms and dads who dont even game. Where I live, I saw moms by the truckload buying Wii fit. Moms who dont even game at all. Nintendo literally succeeded at circumventing Sonys dominance with the traditional market and creating their own and the sales of software tells the story as to who is buying what.

The mainstream consumers, the guys playing Madden and Guitar Hero on their PS2, plenty of them got a Wii. Both were the go-to console for those who weren't super into gaming like we are. Throughout last gen in college dorms like mine and in family homes like most of my friends' and cousins' houses, it was a very common sight to see both a PS2 and a Wii connected to the TV. 

A big chunk of PS2's base was casual, and a lot of those people skipped the PS3 and got a Wii instead.



Vinther1991 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:

No. The Eyetoy and party games did not sell as well as you think. They were profitable and thus Sony kept making more iterations. If Singstar was on the Wii, it would've sold far more than it did on the PS2. Sony makes a ton of games in various different places but one thing i've always hated about them is that they dont try to overly influence gamers to buy them. This is why Microsoft purchased natal which was a more powerful eyetoy rode the casual wave the Nintendo created. Sony fails to boast about every secondary product they have outside of the main console. The Eyetoy was profitable and thus they made another iteration of it. They never oversold their casual motion products. Microsoft showed them what to do with their own idea.

They were multi-million sellers nonetheless and especially stuff like Guitar Hero was very successful on PS2. I don't claim that PS2 had a casual audience nearly as big as the Wii. But it definitely was substantial, and it did myteriously disappear from PS once a certain Nintendo console launched.



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Im not saying no owners owned the PS2, but for me to discuss the PS2 audience with the Wii, we would have to take into account the software sales. The only element we could use to attribute one group to the other is how well software sold and the overall size of the market.Microsoft didnt increase the market (nor did they count on Sony putting a highly valuable new format into their console, prompting them to sign a deal with HD-DVD and create an addon which flopped), they just maintained it by mirroring the product Sony was delivering and thus when Sony dropped the ball scooped up the gamers with consistent third party and increased Halo sales to record numbers. The large amount of gamers Microsoft took away from the PS2 Shot their software sales into the Statusphere, which the Wii did not for third party unless you were playing Just Dance. The PS2 was known for its high third party sales, even so much so...that third parties to stay exclusive to the PS2 and not have to look elsewhere for profit. The Wii sold to more than just gamers, but the grandparents, moms and dads who dont even game. Where I live, I saw moms by the truckload buying Wii fit. Moms who dont even game at all. Nintendo literally succeeded at circumventing Sonys dominance with the traditional market and creating their own and the sales of software tells the story as to who is buying what.

The mainstream consumers, the guys playing Madden and Guitar Hero and GTA on their PS2, plenty of them got a Wii. Both were the go-to console for those who weren't super into gaming like we are. Throughout last gen in college dorms like mine and in family homes like mos of my friends' and cousins' houses, it was a very common sight to see both a PS2 and a Wii connected to the TV. 

A big chunk of PS2's base was casual, and a lot of those people skipped the PS3 and got a Wii instead.

I will admit that a large chunk of the PS2 base was casual, but we're not talking non-gamer casuals. There are casuals who buy one or two games a year and are fine with that. Im sure some people who had PS2's bought the Wii, but the PS2 in numbers was split right down the middle between the 360 and PS3. The Software sales between the PS2 and 360 and PS3 correlate strongly as well. This is why I keep saying that Nintendo was credited for expanding the market to a larger size than it was the gen previously. The market was never that large. 

Go to the games database on VGChartz and look up the totals of the specific consoles. Rhythm and motion gimmick games were huge on the Wii. They were big on the PS3 and 360 too, but the fact still remains that the consistent market when it cames to yearly purchases and genres were on the PS3 and 360 were stronger for a broader range of games.