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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What Nintendo learned from Sony

d21lewis on 02 May 2017
deskpro2k3 said:
Anfebious said:

Actually, they do. Sony's first party games don't move hardware in the same magnitude that third parties do.

Imagine a Sony console with only Sony's first party games... ewww.

 

They still move hardware, just look at PS3. It did not have a lot of third party support, and their momentum was slow but they still end up on top against their main competitor because of their first party.

 

Imagine a Nintendo console with only Nintendo first party games. = Wii U

Many people say that, aligned launches, Sony outsold Xbox 360 from the very beginning. It's just that M$ had a year long head start and Sony didn't overtake them as quickly as originally planned. Sony hasn't been the underdog since like 1996! They've always had great third party support. It's just that, early in the 7th gen, Xbox owners were buying tons of software (often outselling PS3 versions of the same games) so they supported Xbox, as well.

 

C'mon, man. You know this!

 



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Anfebious on 02 May 2017
Veknoid_Outcast said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

They still move hardware, just look at PS3. It did not have a lot of third party support, and their momentum was slow but they still end up on top against their main competitor because of their first party.

 

Imagine a Nintendo console with only Nintendo first party games. = Wii U

PS3 had a lot of AAA third-party support. Look at the top 10 best-selling games. Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, Call of Duty, Call of Duty, Gran Turismo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, FIFA, Battlefield. There's one first-party game in there. I think there are maybe 14 or 15 in the top 50. Microsoft has the same number -- 15 -- in its top 50 with X360. And it has 3 first-party games in its top 10, along with the usual suspects: GTA and Call of Duty.

People invest in the PlayStation ecosystem for games like GTA, CoD, FIFA, Madden, Battlefield/Battlefront, Far Cry, Fallout, etc. Sure, games like Uncharted and Nioh make it different from Xbox or PC, but they certainly don't keep the platform afloat.

As to your last comment, WiiU had Arkham City, Arkham Origins, Black Ops II, Ghosts, Mass Effect 3, Darksiders II, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, Assassin's Creed III, and Assassin's Creed IV. And still it failed. So maybe the failure of WiiU is more complex than just a lack of AAA third-party games? Especially when Nintendo's most successful systems of the last 15 years have sold well without them.

So true!

Nintendo DS: Top 10: No third party games. Top 50: 14 third party games.

Wii: Top 10: 1 third party game. Top 50: 25 third party games.

Gamecube: Top 10: 1 third party game. Top 50: 20 third party games.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Oneeee-Chan!!! on 02 May 2017
deskpro2k3 said:
Anfebious said:

Actually, they do. Sony's first party games don't move hardware in the same magnitude that third parties do.

Imagine a Sony console with only Sony's first party games... ewww.

 

They still move hardware, just look at PS3. It did not have a lot of third party support, and their momentum was slow but they still end up on top against their main competitor because of their first party.

 

Imagine a Nintendo console with only Nintendo first party games. = Wii U

WiiU + 3DS - 3rd = 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products



Turkish on 02 May 2017

They have a long way to go but at least they got the launch right. They have to prove themselves with games now. The online ecosystem lags a decade behind (logging into another Switch and play ur games there, issue with save transfers, friend codes etc) but they were quick enough to get the paywall part right.

Veknoid_Outcast said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

Look at how well that worked out for the WiiU, and by the way Sony don't rely on third party, they support them. They have a bunch of first party studios.

Look at how well it worked for GBA, DS, Wii, and 3DS. Look at GCN, a powerful system that supported plenty of AAA third-party content, and failed. 

Sony relies very much on third-party support. Look at the 50 best selling games on PS4. I believe 9 are published by Sony. The rest are from Ubisoft, Take-Two, EA, Activision, and Warner Bros. PlayStation as a brand would suffer greatly without AAA third-party support.

Because of the strength and selling potential of Nintendo's first-party games, the company is insulated from the capriciousness of third-parties, particularly AAA third-parties. Neither Sony nor Microsoft can claim that same self-sufficiency.

3rd parties rely just as much on Sony, they became big thanks to the PS1 and PS2. 3rd parties didn't abandon the PS3 because they knew the brand had global reach. Sony and 3rd parties have a mutually beneficial relationship. This gen no one was gonna buy Microsoft's og vision for current gen, 500 euro Xbones, accept the DRM nonsense or the delayed launches for Tier 2 and 3 countries. Sony singlehandedly saved the industry, the PS4 came just at the right time, from 2011-2013 it seemed console were headed toward extinction with the mobile hype, PS360 on their last legs and Wii U bomba. Every article on tech sites pronounced the console dead. Many publishers were not convinced consoles would still be viable and that explains why there were so few games in the early years of gen 8.

"capriciousness of third-parties" What is that supposed to mean? Sony is in a strong position to not fall for publisher demands(if they had any) that's hurting them or us.



kopstudent89 on 02 May 2017

The one thing they've probably learned is to put more trust towards third party developers. The Switch is the first Nintendo system I can ever recall to make it easy to develop for which is why support has been huge.



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Nautilus on 02 May 2017
twintail said:
Nautilus said:

Well, yes.Maybe "largely" might be a bit exagerated, but the early PS4 succes(and by that, I mean the first 6 to 12 months, not 1 or 2 months.XOne was pretty much screwed up until they released the kinecktless XOne) was due to Nintendo overall horrible decisions with the Wii U, and the horrible presentation that the XOne had, with its always online and no used games policy, among other bad decisions.Im not trying to say that the PS4 didnt succeed on its own merit, but it wasnt because of its "superb" games it had the first 6 months, which there were barely any.

And the Switch lineup for the first year is miles better than the Wii U first year.The Wii U had what?Pikmin 3, Super Marios Bros U, Nintendo Land and Zombi U?With what, maybe one or other Im forgetting?Its much worse, not to mention that the release schedule was horrenduous too.

I dont think so.I wont deny that merging both together has its benefits, such as the one you just listed, but its more than just Nintendo fans that are buying the Switch.Week after week, we keep hearing news that the Switch broke some kind of new record, be it with its software, or its hardware, and being Nintendo own record, or selling better than any other console.Its been 2 months already, and the damn thing keeps selling out.I wont say that it will be a huge success, it the sense that it will sell 80 or 90 millions, but by now its kind of getting tiring the same argument that we cant know it will have some success because there are no third party and stuff.I mean, we already have examples, like the Wii, or even handheld consoles like the 3DS, that amanged to be successful with little to modest third party support.And seeing that the Switch will likely get good japanese third party support, I dont see this "lets wait 6 months to see if its still successful" argument being that reasonable.

It had games for the masses. Which is all it needed. But again, its but one part of a larger equation Lots of things contributed to the PS4 success early on.

A month after initially launching , the 3DS was at 3.6 million WW. 6 weeks after launch the WiiU was at 3 million. So  How do you know its more than just Nintendo fans buying the Switch, when it represents 2 seperate streams becoming one? 

The success of the Switch is irrelevant to me when I was talking about disagreeing with you on the software point you were making. you cant say right now that software quanity and variety is going to match the PS4. If anything, we have more proof that it wont with tons of high profile 3rd party titles seeminly skipping the Switch. 

And yeah that argument about waiting to see is pretty valid. After over 4 years that WiiU isnt even at 14 million sales. It got over a 5th of that in its first 6 weeks.. Sure the Switch has a lot more going for it but I dont think you cna dismiss ppl who are taking a more cautious approach to understanding Switch sales. 

It had cross gen titles, and those wernt the ones that made the PS4 break sales records.It was the promise of great titles comming, coupled with the screw ups of the other two that made the PS4 so successful the first year.(good launch price and good concept is also there, but that every console should have at launch)

Something like that I cant really prove, but the moment that the system is consistenly selling out for two months straight on most regions, coupled with comments on forums like VGC and youtube videos saying that they are interested in a Nintendo console after a while, it stands to reason that the ones buying the Switch is not only Nintendo fans.I mean, every console launch sales is made up more by the company fans than other consumers, but saying that the sales is being driven solely by them is wrong.It was most certainly true for the PS4, it will be no different for the Switch.

If you compare to the PS4, sure.The PS4 got its diversity and quantity solely on the third party games, and Nitendo dosent have that privelege.Having said that, the effort that is being made on the Switch is this rega5rd compared to last gen is simply much higher than it was.In terms of AAA first party games, its probably double(and here I am assuming we will hear about 1 or 2 Nintendo games still releasing this year in E3) the ammount the Wii U and 3DS got combined for the same period.Not only that, but every Nintendo Switch title seems to being made with care and a decent budget.In another words, quality titles.We already have 2 90+ title on it, and the system barely launched.And thats with minimal third party support.All things considered, Nitendo is doing pretty well.

As for the last part, the Wii U was already showing signs of failure by this point on time.It did ship 3 millions more or less for launch, but it took about 6 months to sell those numbers if Im not mistaken.The Switch is the exact opposite of that.I am not saying it will be a runaway success, but for anyone that is more knowledgable about the game industry knows that, apart from a massive mistake from Nintendo, the Switch wont fail as nearly as the Wii U did.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

SegataSanshiro on 02 May 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
SegataSanshiro said:

I hope they never do.

I guess I should hope they never make games with things you like then.... but that would be petty.

They already are making games I like. Also not an apt comparison. Developers changed game design last decade to be more arbitrary. A lot of pointless filler and collectables instead of good game design. Instead of making a game with more replay value,they just add 15-100 or whatever things to find but add nothing to the game for a trophy. That's not good game design. It's better they use a better method,something Nintendo still uses and that is something meaningful and contributes to the game reo replay it to collect something or just replay it for the fun factor.



Veknoid_Outcast on 02 May 2017
Turkish said:

They have a long way to go but at least they got the launch right. They have to prove themselves with games now. The online ecosystem lags a decade behind (logging into another Switch and play ur games there, issue with save transfers, friend codes etc) but they were quick enough to get the paywall part right.

Veknoid_Outcast said:

Look at how well it worked for GBA, DS, Wii, and 3DS. Look at GCN, a powerful system that supported plenty of AAA third-party content, and failed. 

Sony relies very much on third-party support. Look at the 50 best selling games on PS4. I believe 9 are published by Sony. The rest are from Ubisoft, Take-Two, EA, Activision, and Warner Bros. PlayStation as a brand would suffer greatly without AAA third-party support.

Because of the strength and selling potential of Nintendo's first-party games, the company is insulated from the capriciousness of third-parties, particularly AAA third-parties. Neither Sony nor Microsoft can claim that same self-sufficiency.

3rd parties rely just as much on Sony, they became big thanks to the PS1 and PS2. 3rd parties didn't abandon the PS3 because they knew the brand had global reach. Sony and 3rd parties have a mutually beneficial relationship. This gen no one was gonna buy Microsoft's og vision for current gen, 500 euro Xbones, accept the DRM nonsense or the delayed launches for Tier 2 and 3 countries. Sony singlehandedly saved the industry, the PS4 came just at the right time, from 2011-2013 it seemed console were headed toward extinction with the mobile hype, PS360 on their last legs and Wii U bomba. Every article on tech sites pronounced the console dead. Many publishers were not convinced consoles would still be viable and that explains why there were so few games in the early years of gen 8.

"capriciousness of third-parties" What is that supposed to mean? Sony is in a strong position to not fall for publisher demands(if they had any) that's hurting them or us.

Sure, it's a mutally beneficial relationship. I think that goes without saying. But Activision, EA, and Take-Two have other avenues for sales: Xbox and PC. What would Sony do without Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, FIFA, etc.?

I'm not sure where you're coming up with this idea that PS4 saved the industry. That's preposterous. Hardware and software sales are still down YOY, despite PS4, which succeeded in large part because of massive blunders on the part of Microsoft and Nintendo, not simply because Sony made a better mousetrap. PS4 hasn't stopped the exodus of console consumers to PC and smart devices; it's simply gobbling up those turned off by Xbox and WiiU. Do you think $400 PSVR and $400 PS Pro are items for the casual or lapsed gamer? No, they're for the consumer already on the hook.

Capriciousness of third-parties means exactly what it says: a lack of loyalty and predictability on the part of third-parties. Nintendo doesn't need to fund or subsidize third-parties and it doesn't need to make a machine tailored to their expectations. 



Naum on 02 May 2017

I hope not, I dont need another PS4/X1.



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

jonathanalis on 02 May 2017

that remasters are easier to develop and sells for those who didnt have the previous console.