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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Jim Sterling’s site under attack after Zelda: BotW review

Mnementh said:
golfgt170 said:

already answered: 

All games on metacritic get a 0% as soon as the game opens for rating. Ofc games that have a history of 20 years arent comparable on the same degree as new IPs. Haters gonna hate that's for sure. But then again haters aren't only in zelda territory. See CoD etc...

So you agree the Metacritic user score can always just be dismissed as it is useless.

But there is a catch. A small difference if i may add: Previous zelda game were scoring high again AND users were also scoring it high. BotW doesnt' follow this trend. That is my point. I hope you get it this time. Can't explain it any better.



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golfgt170 said:
Mnementh said:

So you agree the Metacritic user score can always just be dismissed as it is useless.

But there is a catch. A small difference if i may add: Previous zelda game were scoring high again AND users were also scoring it high. BotW doesnt' follow this trend. That is my point. I hope you get it this time. Can't explain it any better.

Stop it with the metacritic user score stuff again. It was already explained why the user score of previous Zelda games (the last of which releasesd five years ago) weren't trolled. 1. There were fewer troll reviews of Nintendo games overall until BOTW and 2. There were fewer troll reviews of games in general until this generation. 



sc94597 said:
golfgt170 said:

But there is a catch. A small difference if i may add: Previous zelda game were scoring high again AND users were also scoring it high. BotW doesnt' follow this trend. That is my point. I hope you get it this time. Can't explain it any better.

Stop it with the metacritic user score stuff again. It was already explained why the user score of previous Zelda games (the last of which releasesd five years ago) weren't trolled. 1. There were fewer troll reviews of Nintendo games overall until BOTW and 2. There were fewer troll reviews of games in general until this generation. 

And not to mention BotW score. The higher a game scores the more it attracts trolls.

We do not see games score 98's. Thus it garnered eveyrones attention.



golfgt170 said:
Mnementh said:

So you agree the Metacritic user score can always just be dismissed as it is useless.

But there is a catch. A small difference if i may add: Previous zelda game were scoring high again AND users were also scoring it high. BotW doesnt' follow this trend. That is my point. I hope you get it this time. Can't explain it any better.

And again: BotW got more coverage and enraged people by getting so good critic reviews. That has a magnetic feel for trolls. That wouldn't be a problem with a median though, but an average is easily manipulated by trolls. Therefore: too random to use. If you disagree, you agree with Nintendo as they made this pic:

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/252563/nintendo-wii-u-and-3ds-has-more-great-games-than-playstation-4-and-xbox-one/



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Mnementh said:
potato_hamster said:

Maybe not the best example to use:

http://www.gamesradar.com/rise-tomb-raider-biggest-problem-may-never-be-fixed/
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/15405-Rise-of-the-Tomb-Raider-s-Story-Keeps-Interrupting-the-Game

And still I'm not talking about "good reviews', I'm talking about "near perfect reviews". That's what I mean by a free pass, that is, all of the negatives are basically overlooked because they're not really considered negatives if Nintendo is doing it, it's just "Nintendo being Nintendo" as others have put it. Tomb Raider, is treated like the great game that it is but not a perfect one.

Now to be fair, there's other series that seem to also get similar treatment - the Metal Gear Solid series, and the Grand Theft Auto series to name a couple. But that doesn't make it any more acceptable.

Well, your articles have nearly nothing to do with what I said, look here instead: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/10266-Lara-s-Damsel-in-Distress

But to explain further: the near perfect reviews come because for most (not all people) all the things in BotW click together and make a good experience. Single points don't detract of it, except for some. That's why you see the phenomenom, that people watching Youtube-videos of it dislike it, while people playing it mostly like it. Reviewers have to play it to give a vote.

I don't think the crackpot-theories of a Nintendo-conspiration among the reviewers is true. They sometime catch a good feeling with their games. If they fail, they usually get hell from the reviewers for it. But more: if there was a Zelda-nostalgic that influences reviewers it would have impacted the score of BotW negatively. Because it breaks with a lot of Zelda conventions. So, please, no conspiracy theories, the reviewers are not more likely to support Nintendo than Sony (and the conspiracy theory that reviewers are in league with Sony are also existant). To further my point, just compare this Meta of WiiU and PS4:

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/wii-u/filtered?sort=desc

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/ps4/filtered?sort=desc

Doesn't look like reviewers are generally boosting scores for nintendo games.

No, the thing is just, that many reviewers just liked BotW. Just because it is fun and makes them forget about story, tropes, framerates and stuff like that. Not everyone again, although I think Jim Sterling gave a pretty positive note with 7/10. Maybe some people here have to accept that this Metascore from reviewers is not a result of something sinister but a result of reviewers just liking the game. Even if some people disliked it.

Tl;DR: it's time to accept that reviewers have opinions, and that they maybe really have a good impression about BotW.

You're right. I should have posted reviews of tomb raider. Here it is on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/tomb-raider
Don't you find it strange that only one reviewer gave it a perfect score? As opposed to dozens for Breath of the Wild? It's like the negatives in Tomb Raider are affecting the review score more than they're affecting the review score in Breath of the Wild. Wait.... I think that was my point. Not quite sure how your article really applies when it's not giving Tomb Raider a near perfect rating despite the use of that trope. I'm also not sure why you're comparing things with PS4.

You think I haven't accepted that reviewers have opinions? That's strange considering you say "That's why you see the phenomenom, that people watching Youtube-videos of it dislike it, while people playing it mostly like it. " It seems to me you're having a hard time accepting that many people who think that these negatives detract from the overall experience might have actually played the game. Jim Sterling is one one them. You know, the guy who got attacked for giving his opinion of Zelda to a point where people question whether he actually played it because they can't possibly believe those negatives detracted from his experience as much as he said it did?

Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?

I don't accept that this is a 10/10 game to the vast majority of video game reviewers if they're holding Nintendo to the same standards as they do every other game any more than I accepted it for Metal Gear Solid V or Grand Theft Auto V. I feel certain series get special treatment and its not right. Nothing you've said has invalidated that premise.



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potato_hamster said:

Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?

I don't accept that this is a 10/10 game to the vast majority of video game reviewers if they're holding Nintendo to the same standards as they do every other game any more than I accepted it for Metal Gear Solid V or Grand Theft Auto V. I feel certain series get special treatment and its not right. Nothing you've said has invalidated that premise.

As you can see from the answers i'm getting about metacritic user score, we only have a problem about the 0%s and not the 100%s. I didnt hear ANYONE say smthn about all those 100%s on day one! maybe they played it 24h marathon, finished it and saw it was worth it.

go figure..........



potato_hamster said:

You're right. I should have posted reviews of tomb raider. Here it is on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/tomb-raider
Don't you find it strange that only one reviewer gave it a perfect score? As opposed to dozens for Breath of the Wild? It's like the negatives in Tomb Raider are affecting the review score more than they're affecting the review score in Breath of the Wild. Wait.... I think that was my point. Not quite sure how your article really applies when it's not giving Tomb Raider a near perfect rating despite the use of that trope. I'm also not sure why you're comparing things with PS4.

You think I haven't accepted that reviewers have opinions? That's strange considering you say "That's why you see the phenomenom, that people watching Youtube-videos of it dislike it, while people playing it mostly like it. " It seems to me you're having a hard time accepting that many people who think that these negatives detract from the overall experience might have actually played the game. Jim Sterling is one one them. You know, the guy who got attacked for giving his opinion of Zelda to a point where people question whether he actually played it because they can't possibly believe those negatives detracted from his experience as much as he said it did?

Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?

I don't accept that this is a 10/10 game to the vast majority of video game reviewers if they're holding Nintendo to the same standards as they do every other game any more than I accepted it for Metal Gear Solid V or Grand Theft Auto V. I feel certain series get special treatment and its not right. Nothing you've said has invalidated that premise.

So you say breath of the Wild and Tomb Raider are of the same quality? Oh look, Family Party got NO positive review, surely it is treated unfairly because it isn't from Nintendo. It should get the same score as BotW.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii-u/family-party-30-great-games-obstacle-arcade

You seem to have a hard time to accept that the reviewers really mostly felt that the game was THAT good, instead seeing a sinister Nintendo-conspiracy.

"Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?"

Because many of the zero scores in Metacritic actually wrote: I haven't played the game, but ...

But yes, let's instead believe in the big Nintendo-conspiracy.

Why does PS4 has more well scored games than WiiU metacritic then? Ah, well ...



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golfgt170 said:
potato_hamster said:

Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?

I don't accept that this is a 10/10 game to the vast majority of video game reviewers if they're holding Nintendo to the same standards as they do every other game any more than I accepted it for Metal Gear Solid V or Grand Theft Auto V. I feel certain series get special treatment and its not right. Nothing you've said has invalidated that premise.

As you can see from the answers i'm getting about metacritic user score, we only have a problem about the 0%s and not the 100%s. I didnt hear ANYONE say smthn about all those 100%s on day one! maybe they played it 24h marathon, finished it and saw it was worth it.

go figure..........

I did complain about those as well. It's just a bad way of comparing a product, since people don't actually need to have the product to be able to express themselves. Better: Amazon reviews! Links provided in my last post.



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golfgt170 said:
potato_hamster said:

Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?

I don't accept that this is a 10/10 game to the vast majority of video game reviewers if they're holding Nintendo to the same standards as they do every other game any more than I accepted it for Metal Gear Solid V or Grand Theft Auto V. I feel certain series get special treatment and its not right. Nothing you've said has invalidated that premise.

As you can see from the answers i'm getting about metacritic user score, we only have a problem about the 0%s and not the 100%s. I didnt hear ANYONE say smthn about all those 100%s on day one! maybe they played it 24h marathon, finished it and saw it was worth it.

go figure..........

Actually I do have a problem. A median would sort out the trolling 10s as much as the trolling zeros. I say don't trust the user scores in general, the good ones as much as the bad ones.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

golfgt170 said:
potato_hamster said:

Don't you think it's a bit disingenious to tell others that they should just accept all of those "near perfect" review scores when you're having a hard time accepting that the people that are criticizing this game have played the game as well? How do you actually know that the people who gave these near perfect scores even played the game as much as the people who are criticizing it?

I don't accept that this is a 10/10 game to the vast majority of video game reviewers if they're holding Nintendo to the same standards as they do every other game any more than I accepted it for Metal Gear Solid V or Grand Theft Auto V. I feel certain series get special treatment and its not right. Nothing you've said has invalidated that premise.

As you can see from the answers i'm getting about metacritic user score, we only have a problem about the 0%s and not the 100%s. I didnt hear ANYONE say smthn about all those 100%s on day one! maybe they played it 24h marathon, finished it and saw it was worth it.

go figure..........

User scores are a shit metric in general. They require no evidence for whether or not somebody played a game. 

 

Your logic "it happens to every game" is crappy and not statisistically sound. The moment there is a skew by people who have intentions other than a fair review, it fails to represent people's actual and honest opinions. Whether that is a 0 or a 10. No amount of handwaving is going to change that or make your sophistry anything but that.