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Forums - Politics Discussion - Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, what's your solution? Force them all out, no matter what the cost? I hope that they'll fight as much as they can in order to defend themselves.

No. Not forcing immigrants out in general. What's done is done. But you can deport individuals who commit serious crime, which could and should be done on a much wider scale than is currently done in Sweden.

But close the gates from here on. That's what most important. Restrict immigration to a minimum.

What is considered a serious crime? And how long should we wait until deporting them? What if they are falsely convicted and need a re-trial?



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Slimebeast said:
monocle_layton said:

Perhaps it is because you are generalizing an entire group of people?

lol by definition you have to generalize.

Come back when you have even an elementary understanding of statistics and population study.

Funny how you simply insult a person's intelligence to elaborate on your point. 

 

Yes, you definitely do make generalizations whenever you are around any form of statistics and data sheets. However, isn't it a bit premature to conclude that the majority of Middle Easterners are violent and 'bad'?

 

I won't lie- I definitely do find many horrible flaws in the culture of many areas of the Middle East. They aren't exactly the best role model (far from it). At the same time, I chose to examine the article you put and chose to dig deeper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Antisemitism

 

So we now know that Muslims make up approximately 5% of the population, but were responsible for around 25% of 1.25 million offenses. While I will not remove responsibility off of Middle Easterners, it definitely brings a point that I think needs to be addressed- Is it the Middle easterners who are causing the majority of issues, or the immigrants who are of African origin? 

 

Sweden's population is approximately 9,600,000, meaning there are 960,000 Muslims. What I find interesting is the paragraph discussing the rape issues in Sweden:

"Immigrants discrimination by law enforcement, according to a 2006 government report which may be reflected in the differences between convictions and those simply suspected of crimes.[48] A 2008 Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention report claimed that there was "evidence of discrimination towards individuals of foreign descent in the Swedish judicial system."[49][50] In 2016, Canadian journalist, Doug Saunders, interviewed Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University. He described the claims of Sweden's rape crisis as "very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events." Sarnecki argued that "the claim that it's related to immigration is more or less not true at all."[51]"

So now we are in a pickle- we definitely know that not all of them are bad, but the ones who are rotten apples aren't a nonexistent amount anymore. Is there truly a way to solve this without banning an entire group of people? I honestly don't think so.

We have given too much attention to extremists and controversial topics. All of this is nothing but fuel for horrible people to rise up and gain power. This is a snowball effect that will not stop until we attack extremists, not try to get rid of them all or defend all of them. 

 

I don't agree with your opinion 100%. yes, Middle Easterners have brought trouble into Sweden and other countries. However, how severe is their damage compared to African immigrants? Also, do you have solution besides welcoming them by the millions or deporting them all? We have now realized neither one will be efficient. 

You aren't completely wrong on the situation. However, I think the poor management of the situation has made it quite difficult to truly solve this issue.



LadyJasmine said:
Its a isolated incident but I doubt such things used to happen in the past in Sweden.

Oh, you should check out what happened in Sweden during the 70's when the left was at its peak and everything was subject so protest, sometimes extremely violent.



Puppyroach said:
LadyJasmine said:
Its a isolated incident but I doubt such things used to happen in the past in Sweden.

Oh, you should check out what happened in Sweden during the 70's when the left was at its peak and everything was subject so protest, sometimes extremely violent.

Credit to wikipedia:

"Sweden was one of the first non-participants of World War II to join the United Nations (in 1946). Apart from this, the country tried to stay out of alliances and remained officially neutral during the entire Cold War; it never joined NATO.

The social democratic party held government for 44 years (1932–1976), they spent much of the 1950s and 1960s building Folkhemmet (The People's Home), the Swedish welfare state. Sweden's industry had not been damaged by the war and it was in a position to help re-build Northern Europe in the decades following 1945. This led to an economic upswing in the post-war era that made the welfare system feasible.[19]

By the 1970s the economies of the rest of Western Europe, particularly that of West Germany were prosperous and growing rapidly, while the Swedish economy stagnated. Many economists blamed its large tax funded public sector.[20]

In 1976, the social democrats lost their majority. The 1976 parliamentary elections brought a liberal/right-wing coalition to power. Over the next six years, four governments ruled and fell, composed by all or some of the parties that had won in 1976. The fourth liberal government in these years came under fire by Social Democrats and trade unions and the Moderate Party, culminating in the Social Democrats regaining power in 1982.

During the Cold War Sweden maintained a dual approach, publicly the strict neutrality policy was forcefully maintained, but unofficially strong ties were kept with the U.S., Norway, Denmark, West Germany and other NATO countries. Swedes hoped that the U.S. would use conventional and nuclear weapons in case of a Soviet attack on Sweden. A strong ability to defend against an amphibious invasion was maintained, complete with Swedish-built warplanes, but there was no long-range bombing capability.[21]

In the early 1960s U.S. nuclear submarines armed with mid-range nuclear missiles of type Polaris A-1 were deployed not far from the Swedish west coast. Range and safety considerations made this a good area from which to launch a retaliatory nuclear strike on Moscow. The U.S. secretly provided Sweden with a military security guarantee, promising to provide military force in aid of Sweden in case of Soviet aggression. As part of the military cooperation the U.S. provided much help in the development of the Saab 37 Viggen, as a strong Swedish air force was seen as necessary to keep Soviet anti-submarine aircraft from operating in the missile launch area. In return Swedish scientists at the Royal Institute of Technology made considerable contributions to enhancing the targeting performance of the Polaris missiles.[22]

On February 28, 1986, the Social Democratic leader and Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme was murdered; shocked Swedes worried whether the nation had "lost its innocence".

In the early 1990s there occurred once again an economic crisis with high unemployment and many banks and companies going bankrupt. A few years after the end of the Cold War Sweden became a member of the European Union in 1995, and the old term "policy of neutrality" fell out of use.[23][24]

In a referendum held in 2003, voters decided not to adopt the Euro as the country's official currency."

 

I know about Sweden's ancient history, but I never thought their recent history would be so ugly. So many problems and changes in political power. I wonder if we will see another shift from left-wing to ring-wing politicians holding power.



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In France the situation is much worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn5lX8eT7XU



Normchacho said:
Slimebeast said:

You are wrong, which I've already demonstrated in this thread.

Where? Where have you shown that immigrant populations commit more crime than native born people ceteris paribus?

In Sweden, Thai, Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants commit about 50 up to a 100 times less violent crime than people who are from some Northern African countries like Morocco and Middle Eastern countries like Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Economic circumstances are important, but culture also is a huge factor.



irstupid said:
VGPolyglot said:

We've also had Puppyroach comment here, opposin

g what Slimebeast said, and he's from Sweden. So, how can two opposing people both be right?

I grabbed what he said in this topic. And you can read it below. To sum what he is saying. This was a cmmon riot in Sweeden. 

Watch some of the videos of this riot and tell me how things like this happening 20 times a year is not something worth talking about. Sweeden is not the United States. It is vastly smaller. 20 riots like this would make me worries, imo. 

Puppyroach said:
Let's calm down now. It's not rioting in Sweden, it was an incident in Rinkeby, a suburb to Stockholm where around 30 people got angry because of a protest and some of them (far from all) got violent. One idiot lit a fire and the police were forced to shoot one shot. Thos happens around 20 times each year and fatalities because of police shooting happens around two times a year. So I think some perspective is needed here :).

I think you misunderstood what I was saying (English isn't really my first language). I wasn't saying there are 20 riots per year in Sweden (I actually don't have statistics on it) but there is an average of 20 times per year in total that police is forced to shoot at an individual but only on average 1 person per year gets killed by a police. This can happen in any number of incidents, but very rarely at any riot. We hardly ever have riots as far as I know, this was the first one for a long time that even comes close and even the police are hesitant to call it a riot since only a few of those 30 people became violent.



Ok, we are going on about people's impressions. I see NOTHING on that footage. At best some vandalism. But this is in no way connected to immigration or muslims from what i see. 

 

If people think theres outdoors riots and things are completely out of hand in europe, no, it isn't the case. This is just a regular event from nights in big cities. Has nothing to do with emigration more than it has to do with lack of education and juveniles.



And to contrast with the US: In Sweden, on average 1 person per year is killed by police compared to about 1000 persons per year killed by police in the US. We would need to have a population of only 300000 to have the same ratio as the US. We just passed 10000000....