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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Same Old Nintendo - KindaFunnyGames

Hynad said:
Alkibiádēs said:

It's called the Gamecube, it's Nintendo's second worst selling console. Sounds narrow-minded to me by the way. How do you know a game like Arms won't be fun unless you try it? How do you know the HD rumble doesn't add value to the overall gameplay? Immersion is an important element of playing games. 

The GameCube is their only failed attempt when they went after good specs. The Wii U is their first failed attempt at trying to be disruptive with a controller gimmick. If the Switch fails (personal opinion: I don't believe it will), will you agree that their record for going after specs is better and they should get back on that route?

If Switch fails there's basically no "next time". 

You'll get a new DS/Game Boy maybe, for console games they would likely go third party. 



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Alkibiádēs said:
Hynad said:

The GameCube is their only failed attempt when they went after good specs. The Wii U is their first failed attempt at trying to be disruptive with a controller gimmick. If the Switch fails (personal opinion: I don't believe it will), will you agree that their record for going after specs is better and they should get back on that route?

I personally thought the hybrid console was enough innovation and it didn't need the motion technology or the HD rumble tech, but I'm not going to criticize it before I've experienced it myself. $250 would have been the ideal price, I hope they can cut it soon. I'll buy it anyway as I don't really care about the extra $50, but a lot of consumers probably do, at least I think so. 

If I get a new Metroid Prime game that controls as well (or likely better) as Prime 3 you won't hear me complaining about the motion controls though. :) 

In fact, I'm glad the gyro controls return as I hate playing shooters with twin stick aiming. I love the hybrid control method that is provided with Splatoon. It should become an industry standard imo. 

Nothing about the Switch is innovative, all they did was take a handheld and give it a dock to plug into the TV. Not sure how that's innovative. The Wii was real innovation.



"There is only one race, the pathetic begging race"

Ali_16x said:
Alkibiádēs said:

I personally thought the hybrid console was enough innovation and it didn't need the motion technology or the HD rumble tech, but I'm not going to criticize it before I've experienced it myself. $250 would have been the ideal price, I hope they can cut it soon. I'll buy it anyway as I don't really care about the extra $50, but a lot of consumers probably do, at least I think so. 

If I get a new Metroid Prime game that controls as well (or likely better) as Prime 3 you won't hear me complaining about the motion controls though. :) 

In fact, I'm glad the gyro controls return as I hate playing shooters with twin stick aiming. I love the hybrid control method that is provided with Splatoon. It should become an industry standard imo. 

Nothing about the Switch is innovative, all they did was take a handheld and give it a dock to plug into the TV. Not sure how that's innovative. The Wii was real innovation.

And how many consoles do you know that can do that and provide a power boost when it's docked? How many of those have detachable controllers, motion control and HD rumble? Nintendo is the first mainstream console to do all of that. It's a pretty unique console and it definitely stands out compared to XBONE and PS4, for better or worse. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

Alkibiádēs said:
Hynad said:

The GameCube is their only failed attempt when they went after good specs. The Wii U is their first failed attempt at trying to be disruptive with a controller gimmick. If the Switch fails (personal opinion: I don't believe it will), will you agree that their record for going after specs is better and they should get back on that route?

I personally thought the hybrid console was enough innovation and it didn't need the motion technology or the HD rumble tech, but I'm not going to criticize it before I've experienced it myself. $250 would have been the ideal price, I hope they can cut it soon. I'll buy it anyway as I don't really care about the extra $50, but a lot of consumers probably do, at least I think so. 

If I get a new Metroid Prime game that controls as well (or likely better) as Prime 3 you won't hear me complaining about the motion controls though. :) 

In fact, I'm glad the gyro controls return as I hate playing shooters with twin stick aiming. I love the hybrid control method that is provided with Splatoon. It should become an industry standard imo. 

I actually have no problem with anything Nintendo came up with from a hardware point of view. I like that the Switch comes with pretty much everything they've thought of since the NES (expept for dual screen gameplay). It will allows game experiences to be more unique and different from each other. And it allows for a much wider number of experiences. Motion gaming, traditional gaming, on the fly multi-player gaming (those detachable Joy-Cons are a pretty good idea), etc...

Whatever kind of gameplay you enjoy from Nintendo, the Switch has the potential to deliver it for you. So in that sense, I think the Switch is the best console they came up with. 

That being said, I have concerns about what the rest of the console experience. Tying online interactions to a mobile device could prove to be cumbersome for a lot of people. Especially for kids. I'm waiting for them to come forward with the details, but so far, I don,t like the idea that it's the only way to achieve those functions. 

Then there's the pricing of the accessories. In my book, they're simply being greedy and makes them look bad. They shouldn't be like that, considering their current position in the home console market. They're catering to families and kids first and foremost. Yet their pricing doesn't suggest that. I hope they'll succeed anyway, but those prices might prove to be their biggest problem.



Soundwave said:
Hynad said:

The GameCube is their only failed attempt when they went after good specs. The Wii U is their first failed attempt at trying to be disruptive with a controller gimmick. If the Switch fails (personal opinion: I don't believe it will), will you agree that their record for going after specs is better and they should get back on that route?

If Switch fails there's basically no "next time". 

You'll get a new DS/Game Boy maybe, for console games they would likely go third party. 

I never take your words for anything. You're way too "doom and gloom" for me.



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Alkibiádēs said:
Hynad said:

Like you do with him, I'm gauging you based on your bahaviour around the forums as a whole. Not just this here thread. 

And let's not act like the comment I quoted from you was talking about the 3DS. And if we were, I would point out the hypcorisy. After all, you say the 3DS is crap, like Norm complains about the Switch. But do you know what it takes to make a game console? Why don't you go and make one?

I already said what I would change about the 3DS. Drop the 3D effect to cut down on the price and make it more powerful at the same time. I don't know how that 3D gimmick made it out of their R & D phase, it's simply not impressive at all, they should have realized that before they released the 3DS. It's also impossible to market as its something you need to see with your own eyes. You can market motion control and touch screen controls, but good luck making a decent TV ad about the 3D effect. Nintendo pretty much gave up on the 3D effect themselves eventually. Sun & Moon don't even use it. 

Norm says it should have been an easy home run, as if developing a new console is easy. He doesn't even say what they should have done differently. Just a post with no substance. If the Gamecube showed anything, it's that making a powerful traditional console is not the answer for Nintendo for making a succesful console. It's not that simple. What works for Playstation doesn't necessarily work for Nintendo. 

Whether the Switch will be succesful I don't know. If it's too expensive Nintendo can always cut the price. I don't know if they will make good use of the motion controls this time, or the HD rumble effect. If they do, then they didn't make the same mistakes as they did with the 3DS. I doubt the HD rumble tech is all that expensive anyway. Motion controls won't be expensive anymore either. The joy cons cost $80, which is around $15 more expensive as the PS4 controller when it came out. But since the joy cons can function as two controllers it has a better value proposition anyway. 

Their new IP, Arms, is at least a good indication on what they want to do with the motion controls this time around. Seems like a solid new IP. I hope more games like that are coming out. 

The only major mistake (we currently know of) is imo not having a pack-in game. I can't see 1-2 Switch selling well at full retail price. It simply doesn't look like a full-priced game and it would have been an ideal pack-in game to show of the new tech. I can't see many people buying this party game. 

I will gladly go through what I think Nintendo needed to do to make the Switch a success and none of them are just making another Playstation.

1. Have some sort of achievement system. Not everyone cares about them, but there are a lot of people who do and implementing such a system would have been an easy way to make them happy and would have been a good indicator to everyone else that Nintendo understood the current conosle ecosystem.

2. Integrated voice chat! This is such a no brainer feature that there are a lot of people flat out refuse to believe it's not actually there. It's 2017 and to sell a system that doesn't offer it is quite frankly silly. Including it would hugely improve the experience playing online for people who want to talk to the people they're playing with and would once again show the world that they aren't living in the past.

3. An at least compitent games incentive for it's online service. One NES or SNES game to rent a month is woefully inadequite compared to what the competion offers and is actually probably worse than not offering anything from a PR perspective. Nintendo has a huge catalog of great games and giving it's subscribers at least one or two free N64 or Gamecube games a month should be well inside the realm of posibility considering what Xbox and PlayStation offer.

4. Have as many of the major streaming and entertainment apps available at launch as possible. When even the 3DS has access to Netflix, and the PS TV, a $99 mini console, was shredded for excluding streaming apps, there's really no excuse for a $300 portable device to be missing them. It sevearly limits in functionality and usefulness outside of gaming and just looks bad.

5. Allow access to all VC games bought on the Wii and Wii U. Mostly this would just be a good feature for loyal Nintendo fans who have spent a lot of money over the years buying games of the VC who may be pretty unhappy to learn that they might have to buy them all over again.

6. Put more effort into securing 3rd party content. I understand that the Switch likely won't get much in the way of big AAA games. But if at their big unveiling they have to show off Rayman Legends as an example of 3rd party support...they aren't doing a good enough job. AA games, NEWER indies, Madden, Just something they showed a little bit more commitment.

7. Be more open about what's going on. In  recent interview with Kotaku Nintendo responded to 5 of the 11 questions they were asked with "We have nothing to announce at this time". With less than a month and a half to go before launch that's not really good enough. They either need to have answers, or they needed to wait until they did to put this thing out there.

 

Even if it's not exactly what I personally wanted, I can see the appeal of the hybrid system. But Honestly, I think they're rushing the system out to launch with Zelda. From what we've seen I'm not sure Nintendo is really ready to go here.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Hynad said:
Normchacho said:

"It makes total sense for Nintendo. But if you're like me, as in someone who just wants to sit in front of his tv with a normal controller and play Nintendo games, you'd be paying for a lot of stuff you're never going to use by buying the Switch."

I've had some time to let the Switch Presentation sink in. And although I still think they should have included the Joy-Con charge grip with the system, instead of that shell they packed in, I think what comes packed in is enough to enjoy the Switch on your TV without having to buy anything else.

The Joy-Cons have a 20 hours battery life. So you play all day, and when you go to bed, you simply put them back on the docked Switch. If you like to play with a normal controller configuration, you have the grip, and if that's not enough, for whatever reason, there's always the option for the Pro Controller. Which I still think costs too much (like all the optional peripherals).

You don't need to buy anything else.  You get those if you're not happy with what's already packed-in. But before you decide that you're not happy with it all, can you wait until you've actually tried the actual setup?

My issue with the Switch isn't that I feel like I'm going to have to buy other things, it's that with it being portable, I'm paying for a screen, and a battery, and the miniturization that had to take place to make that all possible. When realistically it wouldn't leave it's dock more than a few times over the entire time I own it.

As I say in that post, I fully understand the reasoning behind it. It just doesn't work out great for me personally.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Normchacho said:

I will gladly go through what I think Nintendo needed to do to make the Switch a success and none of them are just making another Playstation.

1. Have some sort of achievement system. Not everyone cares about them, but there are a lot of people who do and implementing such a system would have been an easy way to make them happy and would have been a good indicator to everyone else that Nintendo understood the current conosle ecosystem.

2. Integrated voice chat! This is such a no brainer feature that there are a lot of people flat out refuse to believe it's not actually there. It's 2017 and to sell a system that doesn't offer it is quite frankly silly. Including it would hugely improve the experience playing online for people who want to talk to the people they're playing with and would once again show the world that they aren't living in the past.

3. An at least compitent games incentive for it's online service. One NES or SNES game to rent a month is woefully inadequite compared to what the competion offers and is actually probably worse than not offering anything from a PR perspective. Nintendo has a huge catalog of great games and giving it's subscribers at least one or two free N64 or Gamecube games a month should be well inside the realm of posibility considering what Xbox and PlayStation offer.

4. Have as many of the major streaming and entertainment apps available at launch as possible. When even the 3DS has access to Netflix, and the PS TV, a $99 mini console, was shredded for excluding streaming apps, there's really no excuse for a $300 portable device to be missing them. It sevearly limits in functionality and usefulness outside of gaming and just looks bad.

5. Allow access to all VC games bought on the Wii and Wii U. Mostly this would just be a good feature for loyal Nintendo fans who have spent a lot of money over the years buying games of the VC who may be pretty unhappy to learn that they might have to buy them all over again.

6. Put more effort into securing 3rd party content. I understand that the Switch likely won't get much in the way of big AAA games. But if at their big unveiling they have to show off Rayman Legends as an example of 3rd party support...they aren't doing a good enough job. AA games, NEWER indies, Madden, Just something they showed a little bit more commitment.

7. Be more open about what's going on. In  recent interview with Kotaku Nintendo responded to 5 of the 11 questions they were asked with "We have nothing to announce at this time". With less than a month and a half to go before launch that's not really good enough. They either need to have answers, or they needed to wait until they did to put this thing out there.

 

Even if it's not exactly what I personally wanted, I can see the appeal of the hybrid system. But Honestly, I think they're rushing the system out to launch with Zelda. From what we've seen I'm not sure Nintendo is really ready to go here.

A lot of that can be added in the future through system updates.

1 - I don't care much about trophies/achievements, and I don't really understand their appeal. I prefer when the game itself has unique objectives that unlock in-game rewards when I succeed, than trophies that serve no purpose other than to boast among fellow gamers... But hey, that's just me. This kind of "feature" can be added later on.

2 - I'm with you about the voice chat. In fact, I think it's stupid to leave online interaction behind a mobile app. The mobile app isn't a bad idea in itself, but it should be optional, not mandatory.

3- The details about their subscription service aren't yet known. We only have bits of info about it. So lets wait until theyr reveal it all, with pricing, before passing a definite judgment on it.

4- Having Netflix on a portable console can be cool. But I wonder if that many users actually use their portable consoles for that... Either way, Netflix is included in pretty much electronic device including toaster and coffee machine. So that's not really a big issues. That being said, Netflix may not be on the Switch at launch, but nothing says it will never become available. The same applies for any other streaming app.

5- Reggies mentioned in a few interviews that they heard the complaints about VC games. He said they're looking into it and will announce how that will work in the coming weeks.

6- The way I see it, third party support could potentially be as good as on the 3DS. Depending on Switch's success, I expect Nintendo to slowly move away from the 3DS and concentrate all its effort on the Switch. I expect it to replace both the Wii U and 3DS in the not so long term. Which means that the developers that make all that content for the 3DS will move to the Switch. I don't expect a lot of ports of AAA PS4/XBO game to come to the Switch. Because the power gap is simply too big. But if the Switch does well, I expect it to receive a lot of unique content from third parties. As long as it's not shovelware, I'll be cool. Keep in mind that it's only the launch of the console, and that Nintendo may have taken a while before sending developers dev kits, to make sure their concept remained under wrap. We'll see if short term support will be any good after e3 has passed.

7- People like you are just impatient. I see this comment being brought up mostly by people who aren't even buying the Switch on launch. The console being sold-out already. So it's not like Nintendo doesn't still have time to get their info out before you get to buy one.



I like Colin when he's being reasonable, but when he gets to ranting he can get a bit grating. 

 

I'm still optimistic on the Switch's prospects, but I'm wavering a bit. I think the general public is going to react more favorably than the hardcore gaming fans. Colin does bring up some good points, though, especially the worrying 3rd party support, which, no matter how much people try to downplay it, is crucial, I think, to a sustained lifespan for the system. 



potato_hamster said:
RolStoppable said:

The article was posted in October 2011. At that point in time it was already known that the Vita wouldn't get Monster Hunter. Launch lineup was known. Price was known. The competition (Nintendo) was known.

At that point anyone who wasn't a complete Sony fanboy could tell that the Vita would not outsell the 3DS.

It's ridiculous that you even try to defend him as someone who is credible. Your first post started by saying that he is a Nintendo fan when the evidence we have points towards a PS fanboy. He's not just biased, he's incredibly biased. Hence why his Vita prediction was so off.

Has games journalism ever been that unbiased? He worked for IGN's Playstation division. The playstation-centric spin should be obvious. The same goes when you read from their Xbox or Nintendo divisions. They all have their own teams, they all write console centric articles. It's what IGN is known for, where fanboys go to be appeased in their echochambers.

But furthermore, should I go out then and find all those articles from Joystiq or Polygon from all of those other credible journalists that raved about how great the Wii U was going to do, and just ignore everything they say until the end of time? The fact remains that you're shredding him over one article he posted about the potential of the vita before it was released as if that means anything. Great. He bought into the Vita hype and got it very wrong once. It doesn't mean he's wrong about everything forever.

....I think you should go back to some of the predictions and "credible" posts that some of the people in this thread said about Wii U back before launch. It's so easy to shit on a person in the public eye and not see your own wrongs. 

Colin can be agressive and pretentious but people should know he isa very big "retro" Nintendo fan. I know alot of people think just because he's not a fan of the newer Nintendo means he can't be a fan at all. However that not the case! It's a well known fact he's bias towards Sony but if you watch there other podcasts, he shits on them alot for some of there bad practices! 

I'm not as dramatic as Colin about Swtich but i do see alot of issues with it and some from what he mentioned. I'm excited for Zelda and maybe Mario but not there buisness model which i think will effect me personally in the long run if i choose to invest to early. 

So the Nintendo defence force seriously needs to chill, be excited but not blind and a bit wary of the Switch and Nintendo's future.