By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Switch Graphics! Don’t give up on them just yet.

spemanig said:
bigtakilla said:

I know they could, my line of thinking leans more toward budget cuts than actual tech, as you said, the Wii and Wii U were able to pull it off.

It's just the eye shapes that's different from the original, though. The eyes and the cel-shading. That's not a cost cutting measure.

It does let people cut corners through the need of fewer animations, less time designing, no texturing, because all that looks normal in that style. I mean look at some character pictures of Xenoblade X and look at Xenoblade 2. One took a lot less time to create, and time is money. But if you feel making a Cel shaded character is just as easy and costly as making a more realistic styled character that's fine. It's only my guess after all.



Around the Network

would be nice to compare the games running in a GPU similar to undocked switch(a 150 like gflops gpu)?
Could undocked switch run the AAA games? in low detail, low texture, 480p resolution could be possible??(and 720 on docked?)



bigtakilla said:
Ck1x said:

Of course it wasn't cell shaded, but this new game looks like the next generation of where those graphics started. XCX and XC clearly share different art styles, so this new game isn't trying to go for a realistic design and instead is using more of a anime fantasy world. 

It's not the next generation of where anything started. Both XC and X share a similar art style. No they aren'tthe same, but very similar. XC2 is an entirely different direction that is frankly a cop out to a generic anime style.

To me, XC2 seems like kind of a mixed bag, art-style wise. Monolith Soft ALWAYS makes the world look good, and this doesn't seem to be any exception. It looks more colorful and fantasy-oriented like the original game though, rather than the darker, more realistic sci-fi style of X. It's the characters that are randomly highly-stylized anime with cel-shading. It actually reminds me a bit of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, or even the DBZ games where the characters are more anime but the environments are a little more realistic looking. Even Breath of the Wild has a little bit of that going on. I don't mind it, but I agree that the characters are lacking a bit. I HATE the main character's armor so far, haha. But the world looks good, and reminds me more of the original, in a good way, than X, though I did LOVE Mira. I'm just excited that it looks like it'll be more story and character-focused again, and that they've got some good musicians involved, including ACE from the original game. I liked Sawano's stuff for X, and it fit the sci-fi world, but he definitely has a set style that got a little predictable, with the slow build, the sudden stop, and then the big melody section for 20 seconds, rinse and repeat.

I just need to see more of XC2. I think as a teaser trailer it was a little lacking compared to the first one for X. But XC wasn't exactly graphically 'beautiful' and yet the art-style of the world made up for it, along with the music and story and memorable characters. And the faces in the original were a bit rough, and a bit creepy in X (those doll eyed girls *shudder*), so looks like this will possibly just continue the trend. But in a game that's hopefully another epic 100+ hour adventure, I don't think it'll matter that much. As long as it has the same type of battle system (and hopefully levelling to 99 again this time) a party and lots of big areas to explore, I'll be happy. That is another thing I'm wondering though...if the world will be segmented into specific areas like the original, where you encounter them progressively, rather than truly open-world. Kind of seems like it so far, but we'll see. I'll be happy either way. 

As for the OP, I think Nintendo really just needs to do a 180 with their marketing and label it as a handheld first that can connect to the TV. Still a hybrid, but highlight its portability more than its home console functionality. And sell it for $199 without the dock and extra accessories as one option, and then the current option for $299 as well, so people can choose whether they want the next Nintendo handheld, or a true hybrid console. For me personally, Nintendo's art styles look great for Splatoon, Mario Kart, Zelda, Mario, etc, so as long as they play well too, I'm not too picky. The graphics are adequate. Gameplay always comes first. Switch's power will mainly be an issue for third party support, but I'm not convinced third party support can EVER be that good on a Nintendo console anyway, because Nintendo's own games tend to steal the show. But I understand people's criticisms of the presentation, launch lineup, pricing, etc. And I think people would be more positive about it if it were the tablet and joycons for $199, their first HD handheld capable of Wii U-console level experiences, but also having the option to buy a dock (or get the current bundle for $299) to play the inevitable Pokemon and Monster Hunter and everything else on the TV. 



Upcoming Games To Get

Definite: Kirby Star Allies (Switch), Mario Tennis Aces (Switch), Fire Emblem (Switch), Yoshi (Switch), Pokemon (Switch), Kingdom Hearts 3 (PS4), Monster Hunter World (PS4)

Considering: Fe (Switch), Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze (Switch), The World Ends With You (Switch), Ys VIII (Switch), Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition (PS4), Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Remix (PS4), The Last Guardian (PS4), Shadow of the Colossus HD (PS4), Anthem (PS4), Shenmue 3 (PS4), WiLD (PS4)

TK14 said:
bigtakilla said:

It's not the next generation of where anything started. Both XC and X share a similar art style. No they aren'tthe same, but very similar. XC2 is an entirely different direction that is frankly a cop out to a generic anime style.

To me, XC2 seems like kind of a mixed bag, art-style wise. Monolith Soft ALWAYS makes the world look good, and this doesn't seem to be any exception. It looks more colorful and fantasy-oriented like the original game though, rather than the darker, more realistic sci-fi style of X. It's the characters that are randomly highly-stylized anime with cel-shading. It actually reminds me a bit of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, or even the DBZ games where the characters are more anime but the environments are a little more realistic looking. Even Breath of the Wild has a little bit of that going on. I don't mind it, but I agree that the characters are lacking a bit. I HATE the main character's armor so far, haha. But the world looks good, and reminds me more of the original, in a good way, than X, though I did LOVE Mira. I'm just excited that it looks like it'll be more story and character-focused again, and that they've got some good musicians involved, including ACE from the original game. I liked Sawano's stuff for X, and it fit the sci-fi world, but he definitely has a set style that got a little predictable, with the slow build, the sudden stop, and then the big melody section for 20 seconds, rinse and repeat.

I just need to see more of XC2. I think as a teaser trailer it was a little lacking compared to the first one for X. But XC wasn't exactly graphically 'beautiful' and yet the art-style of the world made up for it, along with the music and story and memorable characters. And the faces in the original were a bit rough, and a bit creepy in X (those doll eyed girls *shudder*), so looks like this will possibly just continue the trend. But in a game that's hopefully another epic 100+ hour adventure, I don't think it'll matter that much. As long as it has the same type of battle system (and hopefully levelling to 99 again this time) a party and lots of big areas to explore, I'll be happy. That is another thing I'm wondering though...if the world will be segmented into specific areas like the original, where you encounter them progressively, rather than truly open-world. Kind of seems like it so far, but we'll see. I'll be happy either way. 

As for the OP, I think Nintendo really just needs to do a 180 with their marketing and label it as a handheld first that can connect to the TV. Still a hybrid, but highlight its portability more than its home console functionality. And sell it for $199 without the dock and extra accessories as one option, and then the current option for $299 as well, so people can choose whether they want the next Nintendo handheld, or a true hybrid console. For me personally, Nintendo's art styles look great for Splatoon, Mario Kart, Zelda, Mario, etc, so as long as they play well too, I'm not too picky. The graphics are adequate. Gameplay always comes first. Switch's power will mainly be an issue for third party support, but I'm not convinced third party support can EVER be that good on a Nintendo console anyway, because Nintendo's own games tend to steal the show. But I understand people's criticisms of the presentation, launch lineup, pricing, etc. And I think people would be more positive about it if it were the tablet and joycons for $199, their first HD handheld capable of Wii U-console level experiences, but also having the option to buy a dock (or get the current bundle for $299) to play the inevitable Pokemon and Monster Hunter and everything else on the TV. 

I would agree with everything you said, except for Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't good graphically. On the Wii it looked absolutely amazing, especially for an open world game. It seemed to only be held back by the consoles limitations. Same with X, not so much Xenoblade 2.

edit: Also, is it just me or is the draw distance strangely reduced.... like a lot.



jonathanalis said:
would be nice to compare the games running in a GPU similar to undocked switch(a 150 like gflops gpu)?
Could undocked switch run the AAA games? in low detail, low texture, 480p resolution could be possible??(and 720 on docked?)

830m is the weakest Maxwell yet(flopswise). As far as I know. The closest one I can find to that gigaflop figure that has a DS3 test would be the geforce 520/520m/610 wich is a much older DX 11 card:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dark+Souls+3+geforce+520

According to the video description:

Using a 520m (142.08 gigaflops)

Resolution-800×600

Settings-Low/Off with Medium Textures AA-On (Too bad he didn't showed it)

FPS when not recording: 25-30

At times it drops to 20s but still it's playable.

All freezes are caused due to recording.



“Simple minds have always confused great honesty with great rudeness.” - Sherlock Holmes, Elementary (2013).

"Did you guys expected some actual rational fact-based reasoning? ...you should already know I'm all about BS and fraudulence." - FunFan, VGchartz (2016)

Around the Network
bigtakilla said:
TK14 said:

 

I would agree with everything you said, except for Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't good graphically. On the Wii it looked absolutely amazing, especially for an open world game. It seemed to only be held back by the consoles limitations. Same with X, not so much Xenoblade 2.

edit: Also, is it just me or is the draw distance strangely reduced.... like a lot.

I think the original XC is beautiful. And I think it looked great. But graphically it wasn't as clear/sharp as some other Wii games like Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword, though those have different art-styles and much smaller areas too. I agree it was mainly held back by the Wii's power, but my point was that the art-style made it beautiful anyway. And so far with XC2, I'm not sure that will really happen. Whereas with XCX, I thought the graphics were quite good. It's like one of the few games on Wii U where I could show non-Nintendo friends and they'd actually be impressed by how it looked and the size of the world and stuff. I really think we just need to see more of XC2 though. I'm hoping it's got tons of big, diverse, unique areas to explore. Sure, it might look a little more like other JRPGs now, but as a Nintendo fan who just got a PS4 (last Sony console was PS2), I actually haven't played many of those anyway, haha, so it doesn't really bother me. As for the draw distance, I don't know. I think maybe just the angles/locations they chose to show in the first trailer make it seem that way? Because it's clearly a world surrounded by sky, or we're on the back of a giant being/beast again. I'm just gonna cross my fingers and trust that Monolith Soft isn't going to let me down. They're 2 for 2 for me so far. 



Upcoming Games To Get

Definite: Kirby Star Allies (Switch), Mario Tennis Aces (Switch), Fire Emblem (Switch), Yoshi (Switch), Pokemon (Switch), Kingdom Hearts 3 (PS4), Monster Hunter World (PS4)

Considering: Fe (Switch), Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze (Switch), The World Ends With You (Switch), Ys VIII (Switch), Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition (PS4), Kingdom Hearts 2.8 Remix (PS4), The Last Guardian (PS4), Shadow of the Colossus HD (PS4), Anthem (PS4), Shenmue 3 (PS4), WiLD (PS4)

FunFan said:

After the Switch reveal a few days ago, many people had already assumed the tech on the new system is around the same level as the WiiU or sightly more powerful. Understandably most of the games have an art style that isn’t really meant to flex any GPU muscles. And it still seemed to struggle a bit. Even Zelda is only running at 900P 30fps. The skepticism is understandable. 

One exception to the more cartoony visuals, however, was the Skyrim trailer, as that game boasts a more realistic art style. The trailer didn’t made it clear if it was a port of the special edition and many may have assumed and claimed it looked like the 360 version. Yet...

An article on a website called Gearnuke did a nice job of comparing and proving the footage shown in the Switch event looks a lot like the Special Edition.

Heres the comparison:

Old ugly vanilla PC version:

New Shiny Special Edition PC version:

Nintendo Switch supposedly 360 quality version:

Neogaf agreed. Link to the article(Note that all this is assuming the footage they showed was even from the Switch version).

 

I’m not claiming the Switch is on par with the XB1 or PS4, but it doesn’t need to be. It just need to get close enough. But can it?

We all remember when Digital Foundry tested the Tegra X1, which is rumored to be the chip inside the Switch dev kits. It concluded it could run last gen games with slightly better performance. Of course it still left many questions in the air, like how would it perform in a console environment. It also only tested games available on android, most of them last gen ports. So how would it do against a more modern game. At this point there is no way to know, but that shouldn’t stop us from doing some highly educated conjecture

Enter the GeForce 830m. What so special about it? Two things: 

1- It’s based on the Maxwell architecture. That is one of the rumored architectures the Switch custom GPU is based on. The other possible GPU architecture being the much improved Pascal.

2- Its rated at 526 gigaflops. The Tegra X-1 (also Maxwell) is rated at 512 gigaflops.

 

Anyway, here is how the GeForce 830m performs on Dark Souls 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJhBD6e21VU

 

and The Witcher 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Nl--5F1GA

 

What does this means? Is this acceptable? Unplayable? Can we directly compare the performance of a PC to a console? Is it imposible for the Switch to run these games? Did Nintendo underclocked the GPU so much is not able to perform any flops at all?

You tell me. I have no idea. But I still think we should wait and see if more third party ports of “serious” games find their way to the Switch.

 

Dat DS3 video showing high temperatures and a choppy framerate with a system that most likely is outpowering the switch in all aspects...

Seriously, if you care for high end graphics, don't buy Nintendo.

Good day, Sir.



Comparing to pc is probably not going to give an accurate comparison. It's likely much higher pc cpu performance, dedicated video memory, higher memory bandwidth and even if you allow for better optimisation of the Switch version there are just too many variables.

I think Switch portable performance is fine but docked performance so far looks lower than my expectations of what the hardware should be capable of. We don't know the full spec perhaps docked performance has been compromised some how by a design choice/cost cutting.

I was hoping that 720p 30 fps games would be 1080p anti-aliased 30 fps games docked but it doesn't even look close to achieving that despite the huge increase in flops in docked mode. As someone who would mainly use the Switch in docked mode its quite negative but really lack of software and pricing are the huge issues for me.

It really does look like the Switch is going to struggle to go much past wii u performance. However that said there is at least a 2x boost in cpu performance which puts it up in 360/ps3 territory for cpu performance where as in this area the wii u was seriously lacking.



All these hundreds of pages of discussions for absolutely nothing. I know hardcore gamers feel entitled enough to think every console on the market should exclusively cater to their needs but this console was not made for you guys! This is a console for people like me who love to play games with others locally. You know, the 100 million people who bought a Wii for its multiplayer games like Wii Sports (Resort), Wii Play, Mario Kart, etc. We are still here and we are very much interested in another Wii-like console.

Believe it or not the "casuals" (which includes me and my friends I guess even though they play DOTA and I worked for a gaming website in the past) do not see a smartphone as a replacement for the Wii. A smartphone is not a big screen you play on with a bunch of people. Mobile gaming is not social and does not bring people together. A Wii-like console does.

Again: This console was not made for you guys. So stop looking at it from a hardcore gamer perspective.



I hope that when they get a 10nm version of the Tegra X1, which should bring down power consumption hugely they add two new models to the Switch family

1. Switch Pro - Same form factor as current Switch, but runs at full 384 GFLOPS in undocked mode with a 1080p screen. Screen is made larger by losing the black bezels. Home mode is over 700 GFLOPS, developers don't have to support this but they can.

2.) Switch Pocket - Is a foldable version of the OG switch, the bottom has Joycons that can even slide out, but even a analog slider instead of stick. Top is a 6 inch LCD screen.