By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
Aeolus451 said:
vivster said:

Which is why he was banned for sexism.

Thinking like that will only lead to ruin. The worst massacres(all of them?) and generally most terrible things happened because people let unproven claims roam free without challenging them. You see, people have a habit on believing things and everything gets out of control once people start to act on those beliefs.

So for the benefit of everyone it's only prudent to instantly attack any untruths to stop people from believing them. Beliefs lead to actions based on those beliefs and if those beliefs are false, then everyone dies just because we let that one guy have "an opinion".

That's not a legit justification to censor people's opinions or attempt to control other's thoughts. 

Calling people out for lying is censoring them? Last time I checked, spreading false claims is not a human right. Why should it be fine to leave people ignorant? Isn't it in everyone's including their interest to be enlightened?

Might as well ban all school marks and imprison all teachers who dared to tell students what they are saying is wrong. What a dangerous path to embrace ignorance.

Estimates or theories do not fall under this if they are based on actual facts.

Last edited by vivster - on 24 January 2018

If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Around the Network
vivster said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's not a legit justification to censor people's opinions or attempt to control other's thoughts. 

Calling people out for lying is censoring them? Last time I checked, spreading false claims is not a human right. Why should it be fine to leave people ignorant? Isn't it in everyone's including their interest to be enlightened?

Might as well ban all school marks and imprison all teachers who dared to tell students what they are saying is wrong. What a dangerous path to embrace ignorance.

They're like the flat earthers. They believe what they want in spite of evidence. It could be argued than religious people are like that. You don't have any right to censor them. Ya can challenge their ideas but no censoring or locking them up. 



Aeolus451 said:
vivster said:

Calling people out for lying is censoring them? Last time I checked, spreading false claims is not a human right. Why should it be fine to leave people ignorant? Isn't it in everyone's including their interest to be enlightened?

Might as well ban all school marks and imprison all teachers who dared to tell students what they are saying is wrong. What a dangerous path to embrace ignorance.

They're like the flat earthers. They believe what they want in spite of evidence. It could be argued than religious people are like that. You don't have any right to censor them. Ya can challenge their ideas but no censoring or locking them up. 

Challenging falsehoods is no censorship. I never said anything about locking them up. All we need to do is making the voices that speak truth louder than the ones that spread lies. Which includes religions. Sadly Religion still has the louder voice across the world. To a point where we have the opposite of censorship, actively encouraging and protecting the spread of unfounded information.

Though it's a different matter if they try to compel people to act on false beliefs. Hate preachers who's sole attempt is to provoke harmful actions out of their followers should be stopped. You can call it censoring if you like, I call it protecting the well being of other people.

Protecting unfounded information is nothing but harmful within a society. Harmful things should be stopped.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Aeolus451 said:
RolStoppable said:

Huh? They want to prevent their children from receiving potentially life-saving vaccination and want to get it into other people's minds that vaccination is harmful.

That's no different the parents who get their kid to transition when it's 5. It's a matter of perspective. 

False. Non-vaccination is helping preserve illnesses that killed millions in the past, were nearly eradicated and now who knows how many more will kill, so the choice of parents who don't vaccinate their kids have an impact on the entire world. In your example only the kid will suffer the consequences of bad parenting.



Player2 said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's no different the parents who get their kid to transition when it's 5. It's a matter of perspective. 

False. Non-vaccination is helping preserve illnesses that killed millions in the past, were nearly eradicated and now who knows how many more will kill, so the choice of parents who don't vaccinate their kids have an impact on the entire world. In your example only the kid will suffer the consequences of bad parenting.

I think he has made it clear by now that the freedom to spout any nonsense is valued above the physical health of innocent people.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Around the Network
Player2 said:
Aeolus451 said:

That's no different the parents who get their kid to transition when it's 5. It's a matter of perspective. 

False. Non-vaccination is helping preserve illnesses that killed millions in the past, were nearly eradicated and now who knows how many more will kill, so the choice of parents who don't vaccinate their kids have an impact on the entire world. In your example only the kid will suffer the consequences of bad parenting.

Well, vaccinated people wouldn't be affected by it even if there's an outbreak.  That's the point of getting vaccinated. Unvaccinated people can be vaccinated when they change their mind or when the kids get older. In the U.S., it's not an issue because we're fairly clean and we have the medical resources to deal with any issues.

There's still plenty of places in the world where a lot of these diseases still exists so it's virtually impossible to eradicate them from the world. That's a bigger issue than a handful of people in the states being stubborn. 



The mods right now

 



Aeolus451 said:
Player2 said:

False. Non-vaccination is helping preserve illnesses that killed millions in the past, were nearly eradicated and now who knows how many more will kill, so the choice of parents who don't vaccinate their kids have an impact on the entire world. In your example only the kid will suffer the consequences of bad parenting.

Well, vaccinated people wouldn't be affected by it even if there's an outbreak.  That's the point of getting vaccinated. Unvaccinated people can be vaccinated when they change their mind or when the kids get older. In the U.S., it's not an issue because we're fairly clean and we have the medical resources to deal with any issues.

There's still plenty of places in the world where a lot of these diseases still exists so it's virtually impossible to eradicate them from the world. That's a bigger issue than a handful of people in the states being stubborn. 

That's not true, kids with health problems (HIV, for example) may not be as resistant. Some vaccines can't be taken until a certain age due to the immune system of children not being ready for them. What's your plan, have people keep their kids hidden in their houses (even without going to school) until then to make a bunch of lunatics happy?

Smallpox was eradicated so it's doable.



Unsubstantiated posts are fine. You have to be ignorant before you can be enlightened. The issue is when upon correction many people refute the evidence presented in order to maintain their unsubstantiated belief.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Player2 said:
Aeolus451 said:

Well, vaccinated people wouldn't be affected by it even if there's an outbreak.  That's the point of getting vaccinated. Unvaccinated people can be vaccinated when they change their mind or when the kids get older. In the U.S., it's not an issue because we're fairly clean and we have the medical resources to deal with any issues.

There's still plenty of places in the world where a lot of these diseases still exists so it's virtually impossible to eradicate them from the world. That's a bigger issue than a handful of people in the states being stubborn. 

That's not true, kids with health problems (HIV, for example) may not be as resistant. Some vaccines can't be taken until a certain age due to the immune system of children not being ready for them. What's your plan, have people keep their kids hidden in their houses (even without going to school) until then to make a bunch of lunatics happy?

Smallpox was eradicated so it's doable.

 

RolStoppable said:
Kerotan said: 

Great Post. Should we ban ioi or machina everytime they get a sales estimate badly wrong? Haha. 

It's a bad post because it uses a straw man argument. Where I and others argue for moderations is in cases of unsubstantiated opinions where the person who expresses such opinions shows no signs of acceptance for counter-arguments that are backed up with facts and strongly contradict the unsubstantiated opinion. An unsubstantiated opinion on its own would not be grounds for moderation, only the insistence that said unsubstantiated opinion should be allowed to stand. A good and recent example of this is quickrick's method of discourse where he ignored facts and subsequently got banned for trolling. This is how things should be moderated. If he were allowed to do as he pleases, it would set a bad example for discussions on these forums as a whole.

Someone who posts an unsubstantiated opinion and changes their point of view in light of presented facts would have nothing to fear, therefore people would remain free to express their opinions. The only change from consistent moderation is that everyone would be held accountable for what they post, but that's a positive thing as it allows members of the community to grow as persons which in turn would improve the overall level of discourse. Once it is clear that being knowledgeable is valued higher by the mod team and community than hogwash posting, knowledge becomes something that is worth striving for.

Similarly to Aeolus, you fail to provide a comparable situation to what is actually being discussed. The reason why no staff member who provides sales estimates is up for moderations is because none of them label the estimates as fact. It's a huge difference whether something is an estimate or passed off as fact, because the former makes no claim of being true and at the same time is open to adjustments as soon as better information surfaces.

Unsubstantiated opinions arrive at a fork in the road: Go down path 1 where nothing can change the opinion or go down path 2 where you are open-minded to new information. Paragraph 1 of my post describes path 1 and that should be dealt with. Paragraph 2 of my post describes path 2 and should be encouraged. Paragraph 3 is a practical example of path 2.

I don't need to strawman anything to make my case on should we moderate unsubstantiated opinions or not. This isn't a forum on mathematical theory where most things stated can be or should be proven. It's just a gaming forum. 

I'm against this on principal while some are arguing from the perspective that they would be in control of what is considered unsubstantiated. They would change their mind the moment that Kerotan or I were made a head mod with a team of likeminded mods with the ability to ban anyone with an opinion we consider unsubstantiated. 😹

I'm just debating about the vaccine because I think it's fun. I don't think we could justify forcing the vaccines on them or censoring them. We have a freedom of speech.