By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said: 

I don't need to strawman anything to make my case on should we moderate unsubstantiated opinions or not. This isn't a forum on mathematical theory where most things stated can be or should be proven. It's just a gaming forum. 

I'm against this on principal while some are arguing from the perspective that they would be in control of what is considered unsubstantiated. They would change their mind the moment that Kerotan or I were made a head mod with a team of likeminded mods with the ability to ban anyone with an opinion we consider unsubstantiated. 😹

I'm just debating about the vaccine because I think it's fun. I don't think we could justify forcing the vaccines on them or censoring them. We have a freedom of speech.

The problem is that you don't understand what a straw man argument is, so you cannot recognize it when one is being used. Attempts to explain it have not netted any positive results in the past.

But yes, in your suggested scenario of madness where Kerotan or you were made a head mod, nobody would have any faith in the judgment of the mod team anymore. You got at least that portion right.

I must have backed you into a corner. 😹

Could you cut that out and stick to arguing against my points, please? I'm talking about that first part in particular.

Your argument centers around moderating users for stating "unsubstantiated" opinions. What constitutes as unsubstantiated is subjective. Therein lies its major flaw which you've already acknowledged by not wanting me or kerotan in charge of determining what's unsubstantiated or not. It's only a good idea if you or someone like you are in charge of it, right?

Forcing everyone to substantiate their opinions on a gaming forum where its own users don't trust the site's estimates sounds really fucking ridiculous to me. You can't possibly justify taking those kind of measures. I sure as hell don't want an authoritarian minded ninty fan deciding on what's considered unsubstantiated or not and banning me over it. I don't want anyone with that ability here. It's just a gaming forum.



Around the Network
RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said:

I must have backed you into a corner. 😹

Could you cut that out and stick to arguing against my points, please? I'm talking about that first part in particular.

Your argument centers around moderating users for stating "unsubstantiated" opinions. What constitutes as unsubstantiated is subjective. Therein lies its major flaw which you've already acknowledged by not wanting me or kerotan in charge of determining what's unsubstantiated or not. It's only a good idea if you or someone like you are in charge of it, right?

Forcing everyone to substantiate their opinions on a gaming forum where its own users don't trust the site's estimates sounds really fucking ridiculous to me. You can't possibly justify taking those kind of measures. I sure as hell don't want an authoritarian minded ninty fan deciding on what's considered unsubstantiated or not and banning me over it. I don't want anyone with that ability here. It's just a gaming forum.

Your previous post offered nothing of substance. You didn't properly address my post and you merely reiterated things that you've said before, so you shouldn't expect anything in response when you made no effort to make progress yourself.

Subjective interpretation can only be a flaw if incompetent people are in charge; which would be the case with you or Kerotan in charge. Such incompetence includes the lack of understanding what a straw man argument is or being unable to tell the difference between an actual racist and a satirical post. There are more things that could be listed as reasons why neither you or Kerotan should be moderators, but the point should already be clear enough. Since most, if not all, of the current moderators probably don't fit the description of "someone like Rol", your assertion that someone like me would have to be in charge would necessitate that you believe that the current moderators are like me. After all, I would trust the current team's competence when it comes to dealing with what is discussed here.

People who attack this site's numbers are usually held accountable. Anyone who calls the numbers worthless has to justify themself because that's how site criticism is handled. Similar things hold true for accusations against the mod team. It would be great if users were being held accountable for a broader range of topics. Essentially, everything that falls into a category of fact-based discussions, so you can save yourself the time of bringing up religion again, or proposing similar topics such as "Does karma exist?" or "Is everything in this world predestinated?" where definitive answers don't exist.

I'm explaining my opinion in a different way for the sake of the news users who see this exchange  and the ones who've been watching. You have very little to do with the ones I'm talking to. You're just regurgitating the wrong side of the argument.

You talk of strawmans then use "racist and satirical posts"? Are you certain that I commented on that situation or took a side in that? Also, you don't care for the mod team. You're constantly nagging them like some old wife with what you think is the right way to moderate people. That is what started this whole debate. I mainly argue in this thread against bad ideas that are proposed. You want this so when you become a mod, you'll ban anyone who disagrees with your version of things.

Again, you're arguing for my side on this by saying its flaw is the possibility of "incompetent people". We both agree on that. It's funny that "incompetent people" is also subjective, that is main point in this.



CGI-Quality said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, I decided to remove my avatar for now, until I got the mod team to approve it. Am I allowed to use this?:

-pic

'fraid not.

- removed -

Would this be allowed as avy?

Last edited by OTBWY - on 25 January 2018

CGI-Quality said:
OTBWY said:

- removed -

Would this be allowed as avy?

No dice.

Dangit. I didn't get any response on my previous one. I take it no bare butt? What are the real guidelines. How much sexy is allowed??

Edit: read the rules again. It's clear. Also removed the image url.



CGI-Quality said:
OTBWY said:

Dangit. I didn't get any response on my previous one. I take it no bare butt? What are the real guidelines. How much sexy is allowed?

Not too much nudity and try to avoid things being so sexually suggestive.

I removed the url. On to figuring out the next I suppose.



Around the Network
OTBWY said:
CGI-Quality said:

Not too much nudity and try to avoid things being so sexually suggestive.

I removed the url. On to figuring out the next I suppose.

I guess you'll just have to make a thread in the NSFW channel instead to share pics like that (Though be careful as there are still rules and limits on what are allowed there!)



RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said:

I'm explaining my opinion in a different way for the sake of the news users who see this exchange  and the ones who've been watching. You have very little to do with the ones I'm talking to. You're just regurgitating the wrong side of the argument.

You talk of strawmans then use "racist and satirical posts"? Are you certain that I commented on that situation or took a side in that? Also, you don't care for the mod team. You're constantly nagging them like some old wife with what you think is the right way to moderate people. That is what started this whole debate. I mainly argue in this thread against bad ideas that are proposed. You want this so when you become a mod, you'll ban anyone who disagrees with your version of things.

Again, you're arguing for my side on this by saying its flaw is the possibility of "incompetent people". We both agree on that. It's funny that "incompetent people" is also subjective, that is main point in this.

The example of "being unable to tell the difference between actual racists and satirical posts" was a reason why Kerotan shouldn't be a mod. I didn't use the word 'respectively' in my previous post, but you've been constantly present in this thread, so you should be familiar with the incident and correctly assign it to Kerotan on your own.

I care a lot about the mod team and my intention with the topics I bring up here is never to beat the team down, but to make suggestions how things could be improved or how tricky situations could have been handled better. I also remind them of basics like trying to look at things from the perspective of the involved people or that mistakes are only human, and the only real mistake is the refusal or inaction to correct a mistake.

The reason why I want more accountability is because it will benefit every user who values facts and truth. That's a pretty important ingredient on a website that is built on sales data, and said data stretches beyond VGC's own estimates. Whether or not I become a mod is completely irrelevant.

Incompetence is far from being completely subjective as you try to assert. Incompetence is determined by the results that were produced. For example, if a football [soccer] coach is in charge of a top 5 club in terms of budget, but is on track to finish outside the top 12 in a league of 18 teams, he will be deemed incompetent and fired. Related to this example is the search for a new coach where the club manager will go through the resumes of candidates and pick the one with the highest level of competence. Competence or incompetence are determined with the analysis of objective values, like winning percentage, getting the most out of a team, or having the ability and knowledge to lead a team out of the lower regions of the standings.

The above line of thinking is applied to candidates for the moderator position on VGC everytime there is an open position. Since things such as posting history and moderation history are taken into account, it rarely happens that the hired mods turn out to be complete letdowns. This in turn means that the core of the mod team on VGC must consist of competent people, unless you want to write off all those years as dumb luck. Since I don't see an Aeolus or Kerotan on the current mod team, I have no concerns that a higher level of accountability would increase the unjustified number of moderations.

So in summary, the main point of contention at this stage is whether or not you deem the current mod team competent or incompetent. I consider them competent enough to pull off the proposed new direction.

You included me into that bit about satirical posts as an example of incompetence. 

The main point of contention is whether its okay or not to moderate people for having unsubstantiated opinions in posts. I oppose this regardless of how good the mod team is because I disagree with this on principal especially considering the nature of this forum. Your contention with that proposal is based on what you think of the mod team at the time.

This was never about objective facts but rather about opinions on things that are subjective. This started over a few opinions that can't be proven one way or another. Numbers were never a part of this. Its why I keep bringing up subjectivity. You don't seem to understand the concept.

 



RolStoppable said:
Aeolus451 said:

You included me into that bit about satirical posts as an example of incompetence. 

The main point of contention is whether its okay or not to moderate people for having unsubstantiated opinions in posts. I oppose this regardless of how good the mod team is because I disagree with this on principal especially considering the nature of this forum. Your contention with that proposal is based on what you think of the mod team at the time.

This was never about objective facts but rather about opinions on things that are subjective. This started over a few opinions that can't be proven one way or another. Numbers were never a part of this. Its why I keep bringing up subjectivity. You don't seem to understand the concept.

This started with an unsubstantiated opinion about which games Nintendo releases. Nintendo's softography is factual, so any opinions on it can be proven right or wrong.

The counter to his opinion was also an opinion. 



I would expand moderation of untruths to people who claim things but refuse to post credible sources. I'm sick of people who post wild claims and then answer with "I read it somewhere, go look it up yourself". Might as well be a false claim then. It stops dead all discussion.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

The only forum that I've seen with a rule against posting unsubstantiated opinions/claims is one that was only about mathematical theories. For a gaming forum to adopt such a practice is beyond silly. 😽