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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Will the Scorpio own the PS4Pro in EVERY hardware category?

SWORDF1SH on 05 January 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
SWORDF1SH said:

Again! So?

PS Now brings PS3 games to PS4.

We do know where this is going. You're losing the argument so you try to play down the one library by finding a difference. But truth is that difference doesn't change the fact that PS Now expands the PS4 library. 

There is a big difference between X1 BC and PS Now.

Those differences are why nobody talks about PS Now.

I think this debate has ran it's course. PS Now expands the PS4 library. XB1 expands it's library with BC. Not much else to say.



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Mr Puggsly on 05 January 2017
SWORDF1SH said:
Mr Puggsly said:

There is a big difference between X1 BC and PS Now.

Those differences are why nobody talks about PS Now.

I think this debate has ran it's course. PS Now expands the PS4 library. XB1 expands it's library with BC. Not much else to say.

True.

But I like the one that lets me play games I own free, without degraded image quality and lag.



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Miyamotoo on 05 January 2017

Of Course, point of Scorpio is to be stronger than anything Sony can offer.



DonFerrari on 05 January 2017
walsufnir said:
DonFerrari said:

Funnier is seeing someone dissing PSNow as a good alternative to play PS3 or prior games but believing Cloud would make X1 7x more powerfull.

Stop putting words in my mouth, DonFerrari. Not everyone who likes Xbox believes everything they say.

But please tell us your opinion about the quality and difference of playing a game native or via streaming.

Sure I'll, I wouldn't stream when having the option to play nativelly.

And about putting words in your mouth, I'm certainly you aren't the only one thinking the streaming is bad but would believe the power of the cloud. And I'm also certain that if we gone to the cloud threads you would be there saying it was all lies.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

walsufnir on 05 January 2017
DonFerrari said:
walsufnir said:

Stop putting words in my mouth, DonFerrari. Not everyone who likes Xbox believes everything they say.

But please tell us your opinion about the quality and difference of playing a game native or via streaming.

Sure I'll, I wouldn't stream when having the option to play nativelly.

And about putting words in your mouth, I'm certainly you aren't the only one thinking the streaming is bad but would believe the power of the cloud. And I'm also certain that if we gone to the cloud threads you would be there saying it was all lies.

I don't care in the slightest what you are sure about, to be honest. I have enough technical knowledge to not believe in the power of the cloud as it was advertised and you are again putting words in my mouth, assuming I do. Why? Really, don't assume from people what you think they think just because your brain works in simple categories for people you get in contact with.



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DonFerrari on 05 January 2017
walsufnir said:
SWORDF1SH said:

I see your point. Do you think Sony would have to invest much to get PS4 games working on PS5? Or will using similar architecture for PS5 make PS4 games work on it with minimal fuss.

Usually I would have said no. But: Sony is allowing devs to code to the hardware to a point where it seems to be a problem with exact timings when the system is not exactly behaving like it should. That is why the Pro goes *completely* in PS4 mode - it is behaving *exactly* like it has to. According to Cerny because of compatibility reasons.

This doesn't seem to be the case with Xbox - MS has also a low-level API but still is able to abstract from this level to get games to run on different hardware, like we can see on the 360 emulator and Scorpio is already said to be not only compatible with Xbo games but will also be able to run the games better (how this turns out, we will of course see when the console arrives).

So MS seems to have a software side solution while Sony seemed to "solve" the problem with changing the hardware setup on demand which actually works for the Pro BUT PS5 will not use Jaguar processors, it will be a new CPU architecture with different timings, caches and internal behavior. You can't mimic an old processor with a new processor.

With PC people actually think this happens but it doesn't - the software does the trick for you. I don't say Sony cannot solve that problem also with software in the end but the Pro and the way it behaves is a sign that this isn't easy for Sony to do and they didn't solve it for the Pro.

I'm quite sure we have discussed the abstraction level before and you were certain that Sony and MS were at the same level of close to the metal programing.

Mr Puggsly said:
SWORDF1SH said:

Again! So?

PS Now brings PS3 games to PS4.

We do know where this is going. You're losing the argument so you try to play down the one library by finding a difference. But truth is that difference doesn't change the fact that PS Now expands the PS4 library. 

There is a big difference between X1 BC and PS Now.

Those differences are why nobody talks about PS Now.

I would have say that Xbox crew talk about BC because it would be a point that PS doesn't have even if they don't use, while PS crew doesn't really care about neither. But sure, it must be because of the reasons you think.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Jranation on 05 January 2017

Its going to be the most powerful console.



Pocky Lover Boy! 

DonFerrari on 05 January 2017
walsufnir said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure I'll, I wouldn't stream when having the option to play nativelly.

And about putting words in your mouth, I'm certainly you aren't the only one thinking the streaming is bad but would believe the power of the cloud. And I'm also certain that if we gone to the cloud threads you would be there saying it was all lies.

I don't care in the slightest what you are sure about, to be honest. I have enough technical knowledge to not believe in the power of the cloud as it was advertised and you are again putting words in my mouth, assuming I do. Why? Really, don't assume from people what you think they think just because your brain works in simple categories for people you get in contact with.

So I'm putting words in your mouth when I assume you believed in the power of the cloud and also when I say you weren't believing and have said so? Strange thing



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

walsufnir on 05 January 2017
DonFerrari said:
walsufnir said:

Usually I would have said no. But: Sony is allowing devs to code to the hardware to a point where it seems to be a problem with exact timings when the system is not exactly behaving like it should. That is why the Pro goes *completely* in PS4 mode - it is behaving *exactly* like it has to. According to Cerny because of compatibility reasons.

This doesn't seem to be the case with Xbox - MS has also a low-level API but still is able to abstract from this level to get games to run on different hardware, like we can see on the 360 emulator and Scorpio is already said to be not only compatible with Xbo games but will also be able to run the games better (how this turns out, we will of course see when the console arrives).

So MS seems to have a software side solution while Sony seemed to "solve" the problem with changing the hardware setup on demand which actually works for the Pro BUT PS5 will not use Jaguar processors, it will be a new CPU architecture with different timings, caches and internal behavior. You can't mimic an old processor with a new processor.

With PC people actually think this happens but it doesn't - the software does the trick for you. I don't say Sony cannot solve that problem also with software in the end but the Pro and the way it behaves is a sign that this isn't easy for Sony to do and they didn't solve it for the Pro.

I'm quite sure we have discussed the abstraction level before and you were certain that Sony and MS were at the same level of close to the metal programing.

 

And recent things made me believe that is not the case. Thing is, we never know because we don't have access to the SDKs and the devkits. To me it seems like a valid explanation of the recent happenings - if you have a different or better explanation, please provide us with your thoughts.



walsufnir on 05 January 2017
DonFerrari said:
walsufnir said:

I don't care in the slightest what you are sure about, to be honest. I have enough technical knowledge to not believe in the power of the cloud as it was advertised and you are again putting words in my mouth, assuming I do. Why? Really, don't assume from people what you think they think just because your brain works in simple categories for people you get in contact with.

So I'm putting words in your mouth when I assume you believed in the power of the cloud and also when I say you weren't believing and have said so? Strange thing

STOP IT. No, I did not believe in the power of the cloud like advertised. I was discussing the technical feasability instead of people just calling it bullshit. I know this topic and many other go over the head for many people and most just parrot what they read on forums but that's how it is.

What is strange is still that you are assuming it and have absolutely no proof of that, yet you insist because of whatever makes you think I did/do.