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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo Switch model is expensive for us and cheap for Nintendo. Hardware and Software.

Soundwave said:
Pemalite said:

Unless you have an understanding of how Flops relates to graphics, then presenting it in such a way is completely and utterly pointless.
Tegra can do more work flop for flop than Graphics Core Next in the next-gen twins.

You can take any game and run it at whatever resolution you want. The cost doesn't actually change.

The cost comes from needing to build higher quality assets, which is generally required regardless of the resolution you run at. (We aren't Photo-realistic at any resolution yet.)

 

So... Basically an Xbox One then? That was never going to happen. - Unfortunately people didn't realign their expectations when they discovered it was Tegra powered. (Like Ouya.)
Once it was confirmed it was Tegra powered it was sitting between the Wii U and Xbox One in terms of capability. - That fact doesn't change even with the downclocks.

If people had an understanding of what Tegra was capable of, then this backlash wouldn't have happened to the same degree.
Partly that was Nintendo's fault for letting rumours fly around about every single hardware possibility for months and months... And the fanbase for expecting it to be a competitor to the Playstation 4 Pro and Scorpio.

It was just never going to happen. Like Ever.

I don´t agree. Let say Nvidia architecture can make a 6 Tflop graphic card as capable of an AMD 8 Tflop card. That can make a 50% advantage for Nvidia, but Im saying that at the same time Sony launches a console with 4200 Gigaflops and Microsoft is preparing a 6000 Gigaflop machine, Nintendo is going for a 400 one while docked. 

On the cost issue, Object complexity, texture sharpness and lighting is far more time demanding in 1080p and 4k than it is at 480p or 720p. As more time is more paid hours, its far more costly. Also Nintendo confirmed that.

On the tegra issue, The fact that its Tegra doesnt tell you the hole picture.  They could made a Pascal tegra made at 16 nm instead of 20nm with more transistors and less power consumption. Also they can put more than 1 graphic core, they can have more shader processors, its a custom Tegra.  Its just they went cheap. Its cheaper to put old tech on the SOC. Look at Sonys CPU, they are using jaguar cores, not very different than Tegra in performance, but eight of them. And what did they do with the pro GPU. They modified the old one a bit, its Polaris now, and they doubled the graphic cores.  Nvidia could do that with tegra, after all, tegra uses PC graphic technology.



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CrazyGPU said:
haqqaton said:

I believe you should have waited until January 12th to make your decision. Maybe they'll show us something good.

Can I ask you a favour, though? If you ever buy a Switch, can you come here and tell us that you didn't keep your word and that this thread was just a temper tantrum?

I didn´t buy a Wii, I didn´t buy a Wii U. So its  very unlikely that I would buy a Switch. Anyway I´ll come  back  if I change my mind. All underpowered consoles without 3rd party support. I wish Nintendo went back to N64 days. I´ll probably buy some Nintendo stuff when my baby kids grow up, switch 2 or whatever. Nintendo has the best software for kids. 

So they didn't lost you with Switch; you were already lost and wanted to be found by them.

I still think that you should maintain your hope. Let's wait the official event to see what they have prepared.



Werix357 said:
squibbfire said:

Dude... i noticed it too...I thought that zelda looked like a Wii U game...I wonder if thats just because it may have been developed orginally for the Wii U..

Yeah I know you prob just taking the piss out of me. but I was looking for some simple improvements on Zelda for the Switch, in the very least I was expecting better anisotropic filtering but haven't noticed much difference. Of course all this from watching crappy videos so not much to go on.

Yeah I wanna see actual youtube reviews of some of the games before the switches release. If we see something that is barely above PS3 quality then I guess we will all know at that point.



mountaindewslave said:
Werix357 said:

Unfortunately the switch is about on par with the Wii U when it comes to performance, which I find dissapointing considering the Switch is being pushed by Nintendo as a home console. So in essence we're getting a new console four and half years after the release of Nintendo's last one but with very little in the way of technological advancements. Does this mean it won't succeed, no the Wii trod this path as well and came out a winner.

IMO I think Switch's price is going to determine it's success more than the games.

the rumored specs of the Switch (note that the system being docked is apparently not necessarily equating to a big boost in performance) are far beyond the Switch. Not sure the random comments stating otherwise.

The Wii U can't play Dark Souls 3 or Skyrim Remastered (particularly well) and the footage so far of Zelda: Breath of the Wild appears to run much poorer on the Wii U (even when compared with the JImmy Fallon Switch handheld footage or whatever)

I'm most interested to see Dark Souls 3 and Skyrim running on Switch as it will give a much better idea of what it can do. 



CrazyGPU said:

Ok, I get it. As much as I want a real Desktop Console from Nintendo, all I will get is outdated hardware with bad specs and cheap software. The only thing that remains from Nintendo is their creativity.

Lets face it. Nintendo wasn´t like this every generation. Most people say that Nintendo always sells outdated hardware. Not when the Nintendo 64 was ahead of the competition hardware wise. 

They are going to sell a 0,4 Teraflops (desktop) or 0,15-0,2 Tf (handheld) at 200 USS. And they are going to give us Maxwell Nvidia Architecture, introduced in february 2014. A 3 years old architecture.  It will have the same power of a modern tablet or phone. Thats not a Console, Its a tablet designed and sold like a console. Some say its close to 1 Teraflop of power.  Thats 16 bits floating point. If you consider the commonly used 32 bits floating points it´ll give you the 400-500 Gigaflops number. PS4 pro has near 10 times that power, and they say that this thing is going to run 3rd party software? come on, how many games? and how are they going to run on the go with 150 Gigaflops?

Now lets talk games. Nintendo is always creative and great with games, But I remember that Wii U games were getting out very slow and Nintendo told the press that they made a mistake calculating HD games cost. So I guess 4k or nicely looking 1080p games might be very very expensive for them. What are they going to do? games at 720p. Cheaper games and cheaper work on lighting and textures. Of course they are going to sell them to you at full price. 

Now Nintendo fan boys will tell me that that doesnt matter, the only thing that matter is games and that they dont care about better graphics, Then why aren´t they playing NES (1985) games? Would ´t they like characters like in Cartoon movies? I think they would, the point is Nintendo is not going to pay for them. They will give you cheap hardware, cheap games and you will think that you are paying only 200 USS, a great price.

Come on Nintendo , sell it to me like a new 3DS, a new hanheld console with HDMI output, don´t try to sell it to me like a new generation desktop console system. Be honest!. 

Anyway, with all the smartphones and tablets arround, will this thing sell in any other place than Japan? Maybe it will, maybe not, we´ll see. But its not a competitor for PS4 pro and next year Scorpio. Its 10 times less powerfull and I dont know how its going to last 4 or 5 years. 

Before, I was thinking, if this thing run at desktop like a PS4, with 1080p in medium quality, i´ll might buy it, it will have the 3rd party games and great nintendo games. A win win situation. Now all I see is a hanheld with nintendo games. And yes, Nintendo has great games, but how many? and mostly the same franchises.

But what about Sony for example. The last of us, Uncharted, Bloodborne, Quantic Dreams games like Heavy Rain, Gran Turismo, VR and a lot more coming. Also all the 3rd parties great games, for 250 USS on PS4 and 400 on PS4 pro. XBOX gives you Forza, Gears and Halo. Also all 3d parties. And you get a 4K BR player. I don´t care about it, but hey, its a good option for 250 USS.

And Nintendo? Mostly cheap Nintendo games for a Hanheld that I can plug to the tv with cheap old hardware and graphics for 200 USS. Are the games so good that makes this the best option. Not for me. Maybe for some it is, I respect that, but for what I care,

Sorry Nintendo. You lost a Customer.

 

i can understand you. i share your opinion. the hardware is weak, we live in the year 2016 right now -.- i dont buy the next nintendo system.

maybe the stronger switch-hardware-upgrade with better accu someday (its coming end of 2018 - i'm 100% sure).



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RolStoppable said:
CrazyGPU said:

I didn´t buy a Wii, I didn´t buy a Wii U. So its  very unlikely that I would buy a Switch. Anyway I´ll come  back  if I change my mind. All underpowered consoles without 3rd party support. I wish Nintendo went back to N64 days. I´ll probably buy some Nintendo stuff when my baby kids grow up, switch 2 or whatever. Nintendo has the best software for kids. 

Thought so. Nintendo didn't lose a customer.

Yes it did, I would have bought the switch if it were more like current gen consoles. 



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Jesus people. Why is every other thread on this site either proselytizing people to buy one piece of plastic or cajoling others to refuse to buy a different piece of plastic? Options are good, right? How can Sony fans who time after time celebrate diversity, pooh-pooh the Switch for going it's own way? How can console fans who argue for the supremacy of game design over PC graphics and mods criticize Switch for being underpowered? Finally how can everyone act as if all console manufacturers are altruistic but Nintendo, a company that under Iwata was frequently accused of focusing on game creation at the expense of revenue, is in it only for the profit margins?

The cognitive dissonance on this forum is overwhelming.

Considering the cost of production versus price to customer they weren't in any way, shape or form going overboard on game creation at the expense of revenue. Not when you consider what all other big studios were making and how much they poor on each project.

ironmanDX said:
DonFerrari said:

If Switch cost almost the same as a X1/Ps4 how would it be the cheap console alternative? Nope it would be the handheld (which already existed a market), or the nintendo exclusive machine, but in nowhere it's a cheaper alternative to the other 2 as the other 2 are cheaper alternative to some gaming rigs (that could also use alternatives on PC themselves)

How isn't it? Almost the same, as you say is in fact still cheaper. It also doubles as a portable. I'm not sure how you're confused.                    

Try doubling the Ps4 or xbox one as a portable. That'll be $299 thanks. https://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Personal-Environment-XBOX-ONE-S/dp/B00H0R9DSG 

When PS4/X1 cost 250 versus a 500 PC it is a cheaper alternative. When Switch release for 199+ it won't be a cheaper alternative, not in the same margin.

Sony do have PSVita if you want, and that is still less than 199 and can play PS4 games through stream, and I basically know all the negatives you'll make

mountaindewslave said:

no offense OP but you're honestly not really the type of customer Nintendo is after anyway (i.e. it sounds unlikely you were genuinely someone interested in the Wii, DS, 3DS).

Now I haven't really dug Nintendo's last few home consoles, but you're overreacting a little bit. If Nintendo wasn't offering great specs and hardware power AND had no bonus feature then you'd be totally on point.

But a system that is well designed that can comfortably and quickly go from being a handheld to docked and used on your TV without a real change in performance? that's pretty great and hasn't really been done in a dedicated video game format before.

also the reality is that the Switch will be by a HUGE amount the highest graphical handheld video gaming device yet. And don't start bringing up poorly optimized tablets that supposedly have gaming as a feature (they never run well or are comfortable and NO one uses them). SImilarly, there are some powerful phones out there but the gaming on them is a joke, whether we're talking about performance and caliber of game OR the control scheme

 

There is extreme value in a combined handheld/home device and the transition to playing the games in your hands to docking it and playing on the TV in seconds is potentially pretty exciting.

Again, there have been things CONCEPTUALLY similar but nothing particularly streamlined, successful, or exclusively game dedicated

Nintendo didn't plan well for the Wii U in terms of release schedule, it's true, but I also think its fairly obvious that as the Wii U was beginning to clearly fail (mid life cycle) Nintendo likely decided to shift a number of the projects for the system to the Switch instead. I also will point out that Nintendo actually did a fairly good job at supporting the 3DS

when you combine all of their focus into one device I think its obvious they're going to have a much more frequent release date window for games in the calendar year.

In the end the OP's post is extremely negative. Nintendo was somewhat competitive graphically for a few gens, yes, (SNES / N64 / Gamecube) but in the end its their innovation in terms of unique gameplay and their game LIBRARY that people come to them for

and the Switch specs haven't been released yet. Even so, the rumored specs are insanely good for a handheld primary device, at least when compared with everything up to this point

Considering the info we got from DF today, 40% drop on Handheld isn't a small lose in performance.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

mountaindewslave said:
Zkuq said:
Even in portable mode, it's still roughly as powerful as Wii U, so it's not like it's terrible and can't produce some nice visuals. Yes, it could be better, and it probably should be better, but it's not terrible. And more importantly, it's probably still going to be used mostly as a home console anyway, so it being a portable hardware-wise doesn't really matter too much. If they released it as purely a home console with no portability, with the same hardware, no one would be complaining about it being a tablet. At most, there would be complaints about it being underpowered but there wouldn't be ridiculous tablet comparisons.

pretty sure rumors have been suggesting that the Switch does not necessarily perform that much better in docked mode, also that it overall spec wise is far beyond the Wii U

The latest rumors I've seen have suggested Switch to be capable of like 160 GFLOPS when portable, and a bit less than 400 GFLOPS when docked. That roughly 2.5 times more powerful when docked, and I'd say that's a pretty considerable difference (and much more than I initially expected).



DonFerrari said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
Jesus people. Why is every other thread on this site either proselytizing people to buy one piece of plastic or cajoling others to refuse to buy a different piece of plastic? Options are good, right? How can Sony fans who time after time celebrate diversity, pooh-pooh the Switch for going it's own way? How can console fans who argue for the supremacy of game design over PC graphics and mods criticize Switch for being underpowered? Finally how can everyone act as if all console manufacturers are altruistic but Nintendo, a company that under Iwata was frequently accused of focusing on game creation at the expense of revenue, is in it only for the profit margins?

The cognitive dissonance on this forum is overwhelming.

Considering the cost of production versus price to customer they weren't in any way, shape or form going overboard on game creation at the expense of revenue. Not when you consider what all other big studios were making and how much they poor on each project.

ironmanDX said:

How isn't it? Almost the same, as you say is in fact still cheaper. It also doubles as a portable. I'm not sure how you're confused.                    

Try doubling the Ps4 or xbox one as a portable. That'll be $299 thanks. https://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Personal-Environment-XBOX-ONE-S/dp/B00H0R9DSG 

When PS4/X1 cost 250 versus a 500 PC it is a cheaper alternative. When Switch release for 199+ it won't be a cheaper alternative, not in the same margin.

Sony do have PSVita if you want, and that is still less than 199 and can play PS4 games through stream, and I basically know all the negatives you'll make

mountaindewslave said:

no offense OP but you're honestly not really the type of customer Nintendo is after anyway (i.e. it sounds unlikely you were genuinely someone interested in the Wii, DS, 3DS).

Now I haven't really dug Nintendo's last few home consoles, but you're overreacting a little bit. If Nintendo wasn't offering great specs and hardware power AND had no bonus feature then you'd be totally on point.

But a system that is well designed that can comfortably and quickly go from being a handheld to docked and used on your TV without a real change in performance? that's pretty great and hasn't really been done in a dedicated video game format before.

also the reality is that the Switch will be by a HUGE amount the highest graphical handheld video gaming device yet. And don't start bringing up poorly optimized tablets that supposedly have gaming as a feature (they never run well or are comfortable and NO one uses them). SImilarly, there are some powerful phones out there but the gaming on them is a joke, whether we're talking about performance and caliber of game OR the control scheme

 

There is extreme value in a combined handheld/home device and the transition to playing the games in your hands to docking it and playing on the TV in seconds is potentially pretty exciting.

Again, there have been things CONCEPTUALLY similar but nothing particularly streamlined, successful, or exclusively game dedicated

Nintendo didn't plan well for the Wii U in terms of release schedule, it's true, but I also think its fairly obvious that as the Wii U was beginning to clearly fail (mid life cycle) Nintendo likely decided to shift a number of the projects for the system to the Switch instead. I also will point out that Nintendo actually did a fairly good job at supporting the 3DS

when you combine all of their focus into one device I think its obvious they're going to have a much more frequent release date window for games in the calendar year.

In the end the OP's post is extremely negative. Nintendo was somewhat competitive graphically for a few gens, yes, (SNES / N64 / Gamecube) but in the end its their innovation in terms of unique gameplay and their game LIBRARY that people come to them for

and the Switch specs haven't been released yet. Even so, the rumored specs are insanely good for a handheld primary device, at least when compared with everything up to this point

Considering the info we got from DF today, 40% drop on Handheld isn't a small lose in performance.

Don't confuse Nintendo refusing to throw money into the pit that is expensive voice acting, motion-capture, and bleeding-edge tech for miserliness.



Zkuq said:
mountaindewslave said:

pretty sure rumors have been suggesting that the Switch does not necessarily perform that much better in docked mode, also that it overall spec wise is far beyond the Wii U

The latest rumors I've seen have suggested Switch to be capable of like 160 GFLOPS when portable, and a bit less than 400 GFLOPS when docked. That roughly 2.5 times more powerful when docked, and I'd say that's a pretty considerable difference (and much more than I initially expected).

!!!!WHAT!?!! OMG I HOPE THATS NOT TRUE... i thought ps3 and xbox are around 250 to 350ish....