Somehow the 'democratic' side of things (at least the arguments in this thread) make more sense to me.

And yes, most non-americans i know view America as the laughing stock with their soon to be president.

Ahh, you conveniently deleted the part where I talked about evidence. As if nobody could just scroll up. What did I say about rhetoric and how people got caught up in that, but in terms of actual policy, Republicans coddle illegals? 

And yea, I do have you an issue with not giving enough credit. Like I said, you keep raising the bar to an unreachable standard that all these amazing achievements are "mediocre" to you. You say you want Trump to be "better" than Obama, but you've proven that you don't believe some of the best numbers in US history are good enough for you. It's gonna be real hard to be "better" than some of the best numbers in US history, which is why you'll lower that bar when Trump is inaugurated, and then you'll say he's good for doing actual mediocre things (again, like the Carrier deal).

Also, it's not evident that "much of the country wasn't impressed". A lot of people are just ignorant. Yes, I said it. You can say I'm being "elitist" or some other term to skirt the issue, but I already showed a clip earlier where a new scientific poll showed lots of Trump voters thought unemployment was up, the stock market was down, etc. That is factually incorrect. But we also know that the economy a major reason behind Trump voters' choices. So, they voted for Trump on the basis that unemployment was rampant and the economy was tanking. They were wrong. The economy is orders of magitude better now than it was when Obama took office. That false narrative was very effective. You've proven that. Time and again, I've presented facts that your position is wong, and you brush it aside because Obama was at the helm and you have it stuck in your head that Obama is horrible, despite the evidence saying the opposite.

This election, and now scientific data, show that there are many people like you. You guys aren't "impressed", but not because the numbers actually aren't good. You aren't "impressed" because Republicans that have blocked Obama at every turn have convinced you that "some of the best numbers in US history"......actually isn't that good.

We live in bizarro world, now

No, I just wanted to focus on the part where you call me a liar and I provided you with a link.

Republicans coddle illegals? Sanctuary cities tend to be left wing.

Amazing achievments? Subjective.

My position is "wong"? Okay, not sure on what. Seems you just lump me with some random group I may not share views with.

I love that you get worked up just because I look at Obama's record and think, "meh." I'm not really attacking the guy, I just think his 8 years was kinda mediocre. This really upsets you, its great. I've lost interest in this discussion but you're gonna keep being emotional, I may stick around.

Ahh, resulting to ad hominem. "You're just being emotional". Nah, I'm just being factual. You provided exactly what I mentioned. People caught up in rhetoric. You've done nothing to refute that Republican policies have increased illegal immigration. Speaking of Republican policies, you bring up "sanctuary cities", but those are very specific areas. Reagan amnesty, Bush guest worker program, etc are federal programs, meaning they are in effect everywhere. 

15 millions new jobs. Toughest president on immigration in US history. Lowest unemployment rate in decades. Highest stock market value in decades. This is "meh" to you. Of course you've "lost interest", when you've realized it's silly to support "best numbers = mediocre". 

Edit: and regarding your positions being wrong. I haven't ever "lumped you in with a random group". I've addressed you, directly, for your claims in this thread and other political threads with sourced facts. That you so quickly forget that is another testament to conservatives just pushing facts to the side to keep their narrative going

Confirmation bias at its finest. The conservatives are just as guilty of this. Not only do they think they are better than liberals, their most common response is attacking the other person and calling them "morons" and wherever there is no moderation the "r" word.

I find it fascinating how people only see what they want to see and ignore when their "side" does the same.

I don't think that anyone would try to argue that everyone is a turd, but the post was specifcally talking about VGC and this thread. Surely you'd agree that the majority of those who share their political opinion on VGC are more critical of Trump and right leaning politicians? It's just demographics.

Feel free to double check me, but I didn't find anyone calling anyone that. I believe you're the first to bring it up. 

Don't make the mistake of reading my post as statement of the world as a whole, but of the one-sided nature of the arguments (in this case, Mr. Puggsly vs varying degrees of arguments).

Wait, are you really saying that by "there is a very common attitude that left leaning people hold that they're better than those they disagree with. To the point of enclosing themselves only around those they agree with" you were referring to VGC people and not making a generalizations about liberals/the left?

I can where that specific comment was misunderstood. Sorry for not being clearer. I using the tone and posts as an example for that attitude. I know both sides view themselves as the smart one, but I do think that they go about it different ways. The point I was trying to make is that places online can be echo chambers where it one side just piles on. That's what I observe in this and most online discussions on more niche venues/platforms.

I have nothing to refute in regard to past presidents and immigration, I'm not happy with how presidents left or right have handled immigration as a whole. That's what helped Trump, his platform was he would tougher on immigration than any president now we have to wait and see if that's the case. Otherwise, he will just be another disappointment. Understand?

Unemployment at par with pre "financial crisis" years, U-6 numbers somehow worse than Bush years, and immigration back to Bush years pre 2007. I've lost interest because we're going in circles. All in all, I'm saying meh and reluctant to credit Obama for any job creation. I think cutting long term unemployment was a good move for getting people back to work though, but Obama didn't want it.

You lump me in with your views of republicans and you expect me to defend them. But I never really said I was crazy about any president. I'm intrigued by Trump because he's something different, could be good or a disaster. We'll see.