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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Trump supporters stand by debunked claim

aLkaLiNE said:
Now let's just generalize the rest of his supporters as that exact kind of person please.

Like how Trump supporters lump all Muslims together as terrorists?



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StarDoor said:

Unfortunately for you, even the Pew Research Center concedes that Republicans are more informed than Democrats.

http://www.people-press.org/2011/11/07/what-the-public-knows-in-words-and-pictures/#partisan-differences-in-knowledge

Of course, trying to smear conservatives as "uneducated" is especially hypocritical when the least educated demographic, high-school dropouts, vote Democratic by wide margins. Way to insult your own base.

"Informed" and "educated" are two different things. 

http://www.people-press.org/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/

I was correct in my "smear" about being uneducated. 

And I like how the metric you use for being "informed" is arbitrary quiz from 2011. I'm sure if I asked the right questions, I could get inverse results. Like how many Republican voters like the Affordable Care Act, but don't like Obamacare. Even though they're the same thing. They only care about the name because they aren't "informed" about anything other than "Obama is forcing you to pay money"

I'd rather go with a study on the aggregate on who's most likely to be educated. From 2016. 



bowserthedog said:

Can you please post a link to where the claim that many non-citizens voted is debunked?  I would find something that proved that to be worth a read.

The people in this video were likely brought on because they were foolish.  They were brought on to make specific claims that they wouldn't be able to do a great job of backing up so that the CNN host could be dumbfounded while also not being in a position to have to provide any real evidence of her own.

 

Well, for starters there is no evidence that proves millions of people voted illegally. Last Saturday there was a recount in Wisconsin, and nothing was amiss.



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deskpro2k3 said:

Trump supporters' claim stuns CNN anchor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APetG6zuous

 

This is an amazing clip, you can see the certainty on that Trump support's face. And their source of information is Facebook.

Here is how voting works folks, for those that don't know.
You have to be registered in order to vote, and in order to register you must be a citizen.

I find it more amazing that you are using a news report from a company that fed Clinton debate questions and try to legitimize anything they say as serious



Soonerman said:
 

I find it more amazing that you are using a news report from a company that fed Clinton debate questions and try to legitimize anything they say as serious

 

conspiracy, speculations and such are things I cannot comment on, I mean seriously how do you expect me to reply to something like that without derailing.



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I don't see 3 million anywhere I do want to stress this, but I don't see how it is debunked. I've talked to many people who live in California who say that illegals can easily get licenses and they have seen people they knew were illegal vote before. That is anecodotal evidence so I won't say it equals any number reaching 3 million. Obviously by rules they are not suppose to vote, but I can easily believe the numbers can and were inflated in california due to illegal immigration. Wasn't there a video where ICE officials told Trump that illegals were not being deported because of democrats wanting them to vote? 

The burden of proof for 3 million relies on the Trump supporters. However, the reasoning for why there was no voter fraud doesn't convince me at all. So it wasn't debunked. It was never proven in the first place to me so I definately need more evidence regardless. So it's something I hope Trump supporters look into more, but I don't have an opinion beyond that, and I would never say 3 million without evidence.

I voted for Trump. I have very conservative relgious relatives that did not even vote at all. My oldest brother is a militant atheist and this is only the second time he voted for a Republican, he has voted for Nader in the past and a couple Democrats. I believe Trump got less Republican evangelicals that McCain or Romney and less Mormons. Someone also told me southerns overall, but I haven't seen any proof, but I did see him get more % of hispanics and african americans and lower % of evangelicals and mormons...so overall Trump won without the entire Republican Party. Hillary didn't get 50% of the popular vote so even though she got more she was still a minority candidate so over 50% did not want her. Also, almost all racists in my life have been democrats. I live in bucks county, PA and I am mixed racial in a very white liberal area. 



We all have confirmation bias (the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories), I dare anyone to seriously say they don't. Sometimes the more educated you are the more you believe your own views, as education is its own confirmation



Shadow1980 said:

While not all conservatives believe outlandish nonsense, I cannot help but notice how American conservatism in general has become more and more open to rejecting objective reality. Bircher-style paranoia is becoming ever more mainstream. We are, after all, talking about a political movement where the majority of its members think that not only is the scientific consensus on global warming is wrong, but that the science is part of some vast left-wing hoax designed to destroy America's economy or something else equally nefarious. We have dozens of Congressmen and now also a president-elect who parrot this nonsense. AGW denialism has become increasingly ingrained into the very notion of what it means to be a conservative. More and more it's becoming part of their identity. Fewer than one in four Republicans accept the scientific consensus that global warming is real and predominantly due to human activities.

If you can be convinced to reject physical reality itself, you can be convinced of a host of other outlandish claims supported by zero evidence. Even in 2016, less than 30% of Republicans agree with the statement "Barack Obama was born in the United States." And most relevant to this discussion, at least 60% of Republicans believe voter fraud is common. Again, we have conservative people in positions of political power who either refuse to fight against these obviously false ideas, or they believe in them themselves. This is not healthy.

They say that all stereotypes have an element of truth to them. While support for science denialism or Birtherism or voter fraud conspiracies are not unanimous, they are present in an overwhelmingly majority of the conservative populace.

To be fair, there are plenty of liberals who believe ridiculous things, but in every case I can find, support for such notions is far, far from mainstream, and in many cases it has no significant ideological component (liberals and conservatives are both just as likely to be anti-vax or anti-GMO, for example, and such views are a relatively small minority). The "paranoid style" is largely a conservative phenomenon in today's America.

There are deniers of global warming because there is NO consesus among scientists.  Nor has there ever been.  The same tired report that is always quoted is taken out of context.  There was a lot more questions than is global warming real and caused by humans or is it not real.  Scientists included in that 98% include people who said it MAY be real, but don't believe it is man caused.  People who think it MAY be real, and man MAY contribute to it.  People who think it MAY be real, and man contributes to it, BUT not in any significant way.  People who believe it is real, BUT man doesn't contribute to it.  People who believe it is real, and man MAY contribute to it.  And people who believe it is real, and man contributes to it, BUT not in any significant way.  If I remember correctly, it was much less than half who actually believed it was definitely a thing and definitely was caused by man to a significant degree.  So, you may want to actually research that before just blindly spouting it. 

You may also want to ask yourself that when multiple scientists who believed it was real and man significantly affects it gave their projections for warming in the future, why ALL of them were off by great margins.  Even the ones who "lowballed" how hot it was supposed to get.  We've even had a "warming pause," as they like to put it, for more than a decade.  Why they said we would be under water by now, yet we aren't.  Why they said we would have far more hurricanes, yet we have had fewer.  Why it was originally called glaobal cooling, and they even wanted the government to dump coal in the artic to warm the planet back up.  Then, when they were wrong and the climate slightly warmed, they switched to global warming.  Then when the data didn't support it and they couldn't get what they wanted done, they changed it to climate change.  How convenient.  Now, they can point to anything that seems slightly out of order, and scream, "Climate Change, got to do something."

But, here's the largest piece of evidence the people in power who spout that nonsense don't believe it.  Why is it that those in power who scream climate change the most, all have multiple houses that suck energy far beyond a normal household?  Make sure they fly in private jets, burning hundreds of thousands, if not millions of gallons of jet fuel a year?  Drive nice cars that burn more fuel than a hybrid or electric car, something they should be driving?  Answer.  They don't give a crap about the environment, don't believe in climate change themselves, and just use it as a talking point to gain more power and wealth.  Even Bernie is getting a private jet, now.  What hypocrites.



aLkaLiNE said:
Hiku said:

I mean there's a frightening amount of these kind of people who don't fact check and easily believe in absurd notions. That's simply something that Trump's campaign took more advantage of. Of course not all of his supporters fall into that category.
On top of that there are just other scary things in general. Check out what appeared on a ballot in South Carolina.



http://mashable.com/2014/11/06/south-carolina-racist-exit-poll/#X33233phukqt
http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/blacks-getting-too-demanding-exit-poll-asks-voters/
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/07/sc-exit-polls-asks-if-blacks-are-too-demanding-over-equal-righ/21600340/

How is this a question in 2016?
If a minority group are still pushing for equal rights, that means they don't have equal rights.

I'm not joking when I say that my view on humanity changed a bit during the past few years, for many reasons.
I always knew these things were around us, but it seems a lot more common than I ever imagined.

There are uneducated people that can easily be taken advantage of. This is not some new occurrence that arrived with trump, and I've seen just as many people post clueless or regurgitated garbage from the Hilary camp. One glance at my Facebook feed enforces that on a daily basis. Anyway, yes there are a ton of terrible people that backed our president elect. There's also a lot of intelligent and good people that did too. The exact same holds true for Hilary, Bernie and any other figurehead that is supposed to represent ideals, values, beliefs etc

I don't think the concern is whether or not these things existed before Trump, but it's more that people feel comfortable enough to act on such matters because they now have a mainstream vehicle to do so... I'm sure that every person on this planet is capable of committing murder under certain circumstances, but whether they act on those impulses is the key factor here. 



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