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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is committing a lot of the same lethal mistakes they did with the WiiU, and more.

Viktor on 26 October 2016
Lawlight said:
Viktor said:
Really weak argument from you, consoles in general are seen as less profitable than smartphone apps by investors and they judge accordingly. Pokemon Go alone will end up generating more combined profit than the whole PS division this year, just to put things in perspective.

Lol, this post is hilarious. I like how you compare Sony's gaming division's profit to Apple's profit + Nintendo's profit + Niantic's profit + Google's profit + TPC's profit from Pokemon Go. Even then I'm not sure the game will ever reach Sony's gaming division's $785M profit from last FY.

For info:

Pokemon Go has had a revenue of $600M in 90 days. Obviously most of that was during it's peak at it only generated $100M in the past 30 days compared to $500M in its first 60 days. And that's declining steeply.

 

It´s not really that hard to understand the actual point, try harder. lol



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m_csquare on 26 October 2016
Lawlight said:
Viktor said:
Really weak argument from you, consoles in general are seen as less profitable than smartphone apps by investors and they judge accordingly. Pokemon Go alone will end up generating more combined profit than the whole PS division this year, just to put things in perspective.

Lol, this post is hilarious. I like how you compare Sony's gaming division's profit to Apple's profit + Nintendo's profit + Niantic's profit + Google's profit + TPC's profit from Pokemon Go. Even then I'm not sure the game will ever reach Sony's gaming division's $785M profit from last FY.

For info:

Pokemon Go has had a revenue of $600M in 90 days. Obviously most of that was during it's peak at it only generated $100M in the past 30 days compared to $500M in its first 60 days. And that's declining steeply.

Yea man, developing a console + hundreds games is as easy as making a geotag based mobile game. :rollingeyes:



DonFerrari on 26 October 2016
m_csquare said:
Lawlight said:

Lol, this post is hilarious. I like how you compare Sony's gaming division's profit to Apple's profit + Nintendo's profit + Niantic's profit + Google's profit + TPC's profit from Pokemon Go. Even then I'm not sure the game will ever reach Sony's gaming division's $785M profit from last FY.

For info:

Pokemon Go has had a revenue of $600M in 90 days. Obviously most of that was during it's peak at it only generated $100M in the past 30 days compared to $500M in its first 60 days. And that's declining steeply.

Yea man, developing a console + hundreds games is as easy as making a geotag based mobile game. :rollingeyes:

what does this have to do with the point?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

oniyide on 26 October 2016
NightDragon83 said:
oniyide said:

N64 couldnt, GC didnt. Wii didnt to a certain extent. Pass failures have shown that they cant. If they could they would

I disagree that they can't compete with Sony and M$ on equal footing if they wanted to.  The N64 was on paper the most powerful console of its generation, but lost to Sony because Nintendo decided to stick with carts over CDs, which led to the mass exodus of 3rd party developers.  The GC was a well-engineered console that was more powerful than the PS2 and on par with the Xbox, but Nintendo's poor marketing decision to once again refuse to go with the popular storage medium of the day (standard DVDs w/ movie playback capability) and designing the console to look like a Fisher Price toy caused its downfall.  Despite that, the GC actually had fairly decent 3rd party support when all was said and done.  The Wii and Wii U were both a generation behind in the hardware department, and the only reason the Wii sold as well as it did was its cheap price compared to the 360 and PS3, and Wii Sports being packed in from day 1.

If Nintendo really wanted to this gen, they could have partnered up with AMD or Nvidia and other tech companies to develop a standard home console that is at minimum on par with the PS4 in terms of graphical capabilities, and they could have also used game cards as a storage medium like they are doing with the Switch, rather than Blu-Ray or similar discs so that they wouldn't have to include an expensive internal HDD and optical drive, which would cut down on manufacturing costs and allow them to release said console at a competitive price of $299 right out of the gate.  Then later on they could release a $200 handheld or hybrid type console if they so desired to fully replace the 3DS and complement their home console.

Nintendo simply prefers to do things their own way however, for better or worse.

You just made my point for me. The fact they DIDNT partner with AMD or Nvidia...Im just gonna be blunt they suck at competting, and IMHO they know that which is why they dont even try anymore. Everything after SNES...its always some mistake or excuse. So when I say they cant, I mean they just dont have the know how/ability/skill whatever word you wanna use.



Entropio on 26 October 2016

Maybe Nintendo is comitting new mistakes with the Switch (I think we won't know until the "expanded review", if it's lackluster), but no the same mistakes that it made with Wii U.

Everybody thought that not being at the E3 and waiting so long in order to present the NX would make it to be unnoticed, but the Switch presentation has been a hit (at least agethering attention).



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GhaudePhaede010 on 26 October 2016
Lawlight said:
Viktor said:
Really weak argument from you, consoles in general are seen as less profitable than smartphone apps by investors and they judge accordingly. Pokemon Go alone will end up generating more combined profit than the whole PS division this year, just to put things in perspective.

Lol, this post is hilarious. I like how you compare Sony's gaming division's profit to Apple's profit + Nintendo's profit + Niantic's profit + Google's profit + TPC's profit from Pokemon Go. Even then I'm not sure the game will ever reach Sony's gaming division's $785M profit from last FY.

For info:

Pokemon Go has had a revenue of $600M in 90 days. Obviously most of that was during it's peak at it only generated $100M in the past 30 days compared to $500M in its first 60 days. And that's declining steeply.

Lawlight, did you not see that he compared one mobile gaming app's profits to a full blown gaming division's profits?

Also if I look at your numbers, are you not saying Pokemon Go will surpass Sony's gaming division? I mean, your numbers say 700 million and counting. It would be silly to think it will not surpass 785 million in profit. With all of that said, how is that post, "hilarious" to you?



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DonFerrari on 27 October 2016
GhaudePhaede010 said:
Lawlight said:

Lol, this post is hilarious. I like how you compare Sony's gaming division's profit to Apple's profit + Nintendo's profit + Niantic's profit + Google's profit + TPC's profit from Pokemon Go. Even then I'm not sure the game will ever reach Sony's gaming division's $785M profit from last FY.

For info:

Pokemon Go has had a revenue of $600M in 90 days. Obviously most of that was during it's peak at it only generated $100M in the past 30 days compared to $500M in its first 60 days. And that's declining steeply.

Lawlight, did you not see that he compared one mobile gaming app's profits to a full blown gaming division's profits?

Also if I look at your numbers, are you not saying Pokemon Go will surpass Sony's gaming division? I mean, your numbers say 700 million and counting. It would be silly to think it will not surpass 785 million in profit. With all of that said, how is that post, "hilarious" to you?

just passing to remember revenue =/= profits. Even more if we are talking about Nintendo share of the profits.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

bananaking21 on 27 October 2016
Cerebralbore101 said:
bananaking21 said:

And the same logic goes for the portable gaming consumer. The system is more expenisve, has less portability, and will have a weaker battery life. and whats baffling here is not did Nintendo not learn from their mistakes, they also didnt learn from Sony's with the Vita. consumers dont really want AAA and home console gaming experiences on the go. 

Couldn't agree more with this. There is a huge graveyard of expensive handhelds out there that had terrible battery life, no games, and powerful graphics. I'm still hoping that the NS launches at $250, because otherwise it will get crushed. The XB1 Battlefield bundle is only $300. I'm also hoping that the NS gets a lot of games that are meant for portability, and look around NGC levels. Battery life wouldn't be an issue if they didn't try to run the system at max graphics setting the whole time. 

the Xb1 BF bundle is only 300, as well as the PS4 slim. they will likely both drop to 250$ this holiday. next year, they will both likely drop to 250$ via price cut, and 200$ at black friday. that would be just 8 months after the NS releases, at the time PS4 and XB1 will have Destiny 2, Battlefront 2, CoD and Red Dead Redemption all released at that time, and those not releasing on NX. for those wanting a home system, it will be a no brainer. better hardware, better and considerably more games, and a cheaper price. 

Nintendo releasing mid gen will cause them many issues. even if they release at 250$. it will be hard for them to compete on price, while maintaining profitablity. 



0D0 on 31 October 2016

 

pastro243 said:
I find it funny that apparently people can predict 100 million sales/ taking over japan but someone makes a post with reasonable doubts and gets comments like "you don't anything yet, what you say doesn't matter"

Oh, and I would be careful with the "It's going to get all the support from 3DS" statement. It's not going to be easy for devs that have been working with n64-psone era graphics on small screens to something bigger, sort of HD that has to look good on a big TV. Wasn't easy for Nintendo main studios to jump from Wii to Wii U without some developement troubles and I don't expect it to be easy for devs that have been working on 3DS to support something that Nintendo says it's a homeconsole.

That's true. Games like Yokai Watch can now go full to iPhones and games like Monster Hunter, can go to PS4 where they can sell a lot easily.

In fact it all dependes on how many units Switch is gonna sell.

 

 

 

Mummelmann said:
Nautilus said:

Well, I still stand by the fact that I used more substance in my thread, by using other information other than the teaser trailer, but I do get were you are comming from.But I think thats the fun of it.As long as people dont feel entitled that their opinion are the fact and nothing else is true, I think everything else is game.Getting criticised or criticise other yourself is part of what make discussions fun.Just because one of my sources for my claims is the same as his, dosent mean im being hypocritical or nothing.We simply had different views of what Nintendo tried to do with the teaser.

I think I saw what they wanted to do with the teaser, the difference for me is that I think it's a fairly bad idea all in all. And the overall message of how exactly the NS should be treated is really confusing. Nintendo say it's a home console, yet the vast majority of the teaser shows the mobile aspect. The first shot of the man playing it in his actual home on an actual TV starts at 0.05 and ends at 0.20, that's 15 seconds of a person using it as a home console. Then, at 1.21 another man comes home and plugs the NS into the TV, he proceeds to play Skyrim for a whole 12 seconds before they switch to more mobile play. At 2.09, a woman is playing Super Mario in her living room, on the TV, she plays for about 10 seconds before bringing the NS out to her neighbors. At 3.06, a group of gamers plug their NS' to Tv sets in what looks like an e-sport arena, you see roughly 15 seconds of them being there but no actual gaming, but let's be kind and add it into the mix. So out of the 3.36 minute duration of the video, we see a combined total of about 52 seconds of the NS being used as an actual home console, the rest is focused on the mobile aspect and local multiplayer outside or at different venues.

Yet, Nintendo say that this is not the successor to the 3DS, as if they intend more handheld(s)? How on earth does that work? And if there is another handheld coming, why the inferior ARM setup and mobile bits to begin with? Why the tablet form factor? They've not said in their own words that it's a hybrid either, which wouldn't matter anyway so long as there's speculation on whether or not a new handheld is coming.

So apart from the features; the Switch already has identity issues, it is specified by Nintendo as a "Home Gaming System", yet their main focus in on the mobile aspects and consumers are still left in the dark as to when and if a new handheld will arrive, will it be a simpler, cheaper Switch perhaps? Who knows, and that's one of the main problems, if Nintendo adopt the "wait and see" philosophy, they can expect their would-be customers to do exactly the same. Let's not even get started on them using more or less the same tactics the Vita did to sell; home console gaming on the go, huge, immersive gaming on a tiny screen, headphones and small, unwieldly controllers you wave around or unergonomic attachments on the sides of the screen itself. Realistically, how many of the situations they showed will actually happen? Very few, perhaps even none. Instead of focusing on online and social sharing over the web, they have chosen to show people meeting up at skating rinks, basketball courts, in the car and other places to play the video game counterpart of what they could be doing in real life instead. This is just not how people play games today, nor has it ever been.

Look, I could write 10.000 words on why I think this is a bad idea at its core, but I'll wait until there's more info before passing what I believe to be my final judgement of the product. Maybe they have an ace or two up their sleeve, I sure hope they do. As mentioned; I see what they want to do with the teaser, they're trying to roll convenience, hardcore (the nod to e-sports at the end), simplicity and complexity into one unit, but this is fundamentally a bad idea, and always has been. There is no one machine for everyone, so trying to make one is futile. This really is what they were trying with the Wii U, only one step further. The teaser has a message, but it's a bad message and the thing already has a fairly prominent identity problem which sorely needs clearing up asap.

Calling that a home console is quite confusing. As a home console, it's a very weak home console. It'd be better to market it as 3DS successor in my opinion.

 

 

Torillian said:
Qwark said:
I agree with most of your points, yet you forget one crucial point. All the development studios of Nintendo will dedicate making NS games. The Wii U suffered to many droughts to ever pick up steam. If the NS does not have that problem it might become a succes after all. But announcing a system with unconfirmed specs and games except for Zelda is pretty stupid.

Has it ever been stated that Nintendo will dedicate all studios to making NS games?  Last I read they aren't looking at this as a 3DS successor and will have a handheld later.  One can assume they're lying but until otherwise stated I'd rather just assume they're being truthful and therefore there's no reason to believe that every Nintendo developed game will be on NS.

I doubt they gonna have a 3DS successor, unless Switch fails.

But in case switch fails, I don't see Nintendo surviving as a hardware company.

 

 

thismeintiel said:
bananaking21 said:

The Dust is starting to settle of the Nintendo Switch announcement. And its pretty clear Nintendo hasnt learnt much after the horrendous WiiU Reveal.

 

- The Trailer certainly gives a better idea about what the NX is, much more than the WiiU trailer did. The trailer gives the impression that the NS is a Hybrid system. however, nintendo did say that the docking station only serves to connect the NS to the TV, as well as provide power. basically, the Dock is pretty much a glorified charging station that has an HDMI, Thus resulting it in technicially being a portable. you wouldnt call a PSP a "Hybrid" because you can connect it to a TV with a cable, right? However, one of the issues arises when Nintendo is calling the NS a "home gaming system". even though it technicially isnt.

 

- The first point isnt that bad, its not a huge problem sure. it doesnt really matter what the NS technicially is considered if the consumers like it. but it does show that Nintendo still has a communiction problem, and that these 3 minute trailers are no where near enough to illustrate what their consoles are and what they have to offer. 


- Nintendo then goes on to say that no new information will be given out until next year. Leaving a plethora amount of crucial questions unanswered. which is simply baffling. so many crucial questions go unanswered. for a system that is just 5 months away from launch, the number of question marks circling around the reveal is outstanding.

Taking a look at PS4 reveal, the shortcomings are astronomical in comparison. First and foremost, Sony took the time to explain their vision for their new console, where they believe the market place is heading, where they would like to take it. they explained what type of gamers the PS4 would appeal to. they explained the PS4's specs, what its capable of and what we can expect, they talked about networking features,  they showed their support for devs, both tripple A and indie, and what comes in between. And most importantly they announced games, and many of them.  Nintendo didnt bother to do any of these things. 

 

- This takes us to another point, The Games. What types of games are we expected to play on the NS? how can nintendo reveal a new console, without revealing any games for it? and a massive miscommunication blunder accures here. Skyrim and NBA for both shown for the NS, yet it turns out, both games arent even confirmed for the console. how can this be? How can Nintendo show off this console with games that arent even confirmed for the system yet? chances are they are coming to the system, yes. but the fact that nobody can be certain is just mind boggling, and shows a huge in inefficiency at communicating what this system has to offer. whats even more confusing is that they showed off first party games, that arent even confirmed. are mario kart, splatoon and 3D mario new games? are they ports? are they even coming to the system? How can nintendo not have these questions answered?

 

- With the NS, Nintendo seems to have made a similar issue they did with the WiiU. They are making a system that is trying to appeal to everybody, which in return will appeal to nobody. well obviously not nobody nobody, but you get my point. As Nintendo said, NS is supposed to be their next "Home System". But by making it a hybrid, they have lost a crucial aspect that other home systems have. the fact that its a dedicated home system. adding portability to it means that is will be weaker, it will be less capable, and it will be more expensive than it should be, in exchange for offering a feature that dedicated console gamers dont want or really need. does that ring a bell? if not, ill spill it out for you. its one of the main issues the WiiU had. 


And the same logic goes for the portable gaming consumer. The system is more expenisve, has less portability, and will have a weaker battery life. and whats baffling here is not did Nintendo not learn from their mistakes, they also didnt learn from Sony's with the Vita. consumers dont really want AAA and home console gaming experiences on the go. 


My rant can go on for even longer than it already is. but to try and cut it a bit, lets see how many unanswered questions there are about the NS. How powerfull is the NS? what games are on it? What games can we expect at launch? whats the price? how much storage does it have? does it support HDR? what kind of network features does it have? does it have virtual console support? does it have apps like netflix and youtube? is the screen a touch screen? how long is the batter life? how big is the screen? Does it support external hard drives? what type of screen does it have? 

 

As it stands now, Nintendo is just selling us the concept, not the product itself. and considering that the NS is releasing in roughly 5 months, that is concerning to say the least. And Nintendos refusal to even talk about their console is not only puzzling, but out right stupid. Nintendo seems to be a company that refuses to learn from its mistakes, and the mistakes done by others. 

Well, it's Nintendo.  So Nintendo fans will give them a pass, even if later it doesn't pay off.  Can't believe we were hearing nothing but the great 3rd party support the NX was going to get before it was revealed, and yet now that it seems like some devs are taking a wait and see approach, we are seeing the same things from the Wii U launch.  Including the crazy sales predictions.  "Oh, it'll sell 100M."  "Who needs X dev or Y publisher?" "It's not coming to NS? Who cares."  "Their lose."  "I didn't even want that game."  It's like they never learn.

lol, true.

 

Cerebralbore101 said:
bananaking21 said:

And the same logic goes for the portable gaming consumer. The system is more expenisve, has less portability, and will have a weaker battery life. and whats baffling here is not did Nintendo not learn from their mistakes, they also didnt learn from Sony's with the Vita. consumers dont really want AAA and home console gaming experiences on the go. 

Couldn't agree more with this. There is a huge graveyard of expensive handhelds out there that had terrible battery life, no games, and powerful graphics. I'm still hoping that the NS launches at $250, because otherwise it will get crushed. The XB1 Battlefield bundle is only $300. I'm also hoping that the NS gets a lot of games that are meant for portability, and look around NGC levels. Battery life wouldn't be an issue if they didn't try to run the system at max graphics setting the whole time. 

Yes. The ideal price is $250 including one game or hopefully two games.

 

Faelco said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

No the Vita is not, clearly, 3DS has a lot of console quality titles and people are buying it up.

Nope. The Vita offers PS4 titles on the go with a similar and sometimes even identical experience. The 3DS offers handheld games or (rarely) handheld versions of home consoles games with heavily reduced graphics and adapted gameplay. No, you don't play home console games on your 3DS, really far from it. It's never been the point of this console and it will never be.

If you call Pokemon and Monster Hunter 3DS "home console games", I don't know what is the generation of the home console you're talking about... They are handheld games and not the kind of games the Switch is supposed to offer.

True, we can't affirm that 3DS are console games unless we mean old console games in my opinion. Monster Hunter is amazing but it's still sort of a PS2 game.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


Soundwave on 31 October 2016
bananaking21 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Couldn't agree more with this. There is a huge graveyard of expensive handhelds out there that had terrible battery life, no games, and powerful graphics. I'm still hoping that the NS launches at $250, because otherwise it will get crushed. The XB1 Battlefield bundle is only $300. I'm also hoping that the NS gets a lot of games that are meant for portability, and look around NGC levels. Battery life wouldn't be an issue if they didn't try to run the system at max graphics setting the whole time. 

the Xb1 BF bundle is only 300, as well as the PS4 slim. they will likely both drop to 250$ this holiday. next year, they will both likely drop to 250$ via price cut, and 200$ at black friday. that would be just 8 months after the NS releases, at the time PS4 and XB1 will have Destiny 2, Battlefront 2, CoD and Red Dead Redemption all released at that time, and those not releasing on NX. for those wanting a home system, it will be a no brainer. better hardware, better and considerably more games, and a cheaper price. 

Nintendo releasing mid gen will cause them many issues. even if they release at 250$. it will be hard for them to compete on price, while maintaining profitablity. 

Yeah price is not going to the be-all, end-all, by allowing Sony/MS to have 3 1/2 years to scale down in price both the XB1 and PS4 are now in the affordable/cheap category. 

They've been $299.99 for a while and probably $249.99 is coming in 2017 as a standard price not to mention all the cheaper deals that will be had on Black Friday.