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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is committing a lot of the same lethal mistakes they did with the WiiU, and more.

Really weak argument from you, consoles in general are seen as less profitable than smartphone apps by investors and they judge accordingly. Pokemon Go alone will end up generating more combined profit than the whole PS division this year, just to put things in perspective.



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Viktor said:
Really weak argument from you, consoles in general are seen as less profitable than smartphone apps by investors and they judge accordingly. Pokemon Go alone will end up generating more combined profit than the whole PS division this year, just to put things in perspective.

??

Pokemon Go is in a continual decline, and Nintendo only gets a fraction of that money.

http://investorplace.com/2016/09/nintendo-ntdoy-stock-looks-pricey-pokemon-gos-popularity-wanes/

PMG can be resurgent, but they really need to help it out. Even a lot of the biggest initial fans of it are quick to admit that it's not much of a 'game', so they dropped out after the novelty wore off.

OTOH, it should be a bright shining light to Nintendo to go ahead and greenlight lots of other apps, designed by 1st party with no fractional profits to other parties. A quality Mario/Zelda/Kart entry on iOS/Android would make HEAPS of money. And no, Super Mario Run doesn't truly count. It's an 'auto-run' game, if you don't know what that is, look it up (TLDR : garbage game design that gets boring quickly, but an okay quick time waster).

Something along the lines of a 3DS-quality mainline mario title would be a HUGE game changer for mobile gaming on iOS/Android. Have the first world be free to play, but sell the full game for $24.99 and see it rack up record sales. Cross-buy credit if you own a 3DS or Switch = $$, because it would incentivize people who have iPhones or Androids but who haven't bought a 3DS or Switch to consider it.

The world is waiting for the paradigm to shift on how mobile games are made. This low-budget, low-content, nickel-and-dime crap can only go so far, and Nintendo could be just the company to turn that on its head, if they're brave and intelligent enough to do so.



Some good further reading on PMG :

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2016/10/what-happened-to-all-the-pokemon-go-players/

"Pokémon Go is in rapid decline. Since launching in July and soaring in popularity, it had lost at least a third of its daily users by the middle of August. By mid-September, daily revenues had fallen from US$16m per day to US$2m (excluding the 30% app store fee) and daily downloads had declined from a peak of 27 million to 700,000. So what happened?"

http://phys.org/news/2016-10-wrong-pokmon-lessons-plummeting-player.html



Arkaign said:
Viktor said:
Really weak argument from you, consoles in general are seen as less profitable than smartphone apps by investors and they judge accordingly. Pokemon Go alone will end up generating more combined profit than the whole PS division this year, just to put things in perspective.

??

Pokemon Go is in a continual decline, and Nintendo only gets a fraction of that money.

http://investorplace.com/2016/09/nintendo-ntdoy-stock-looks-pricey-pokemon-gos-popularity-wanes/

PMG can be resurgent, but they really need to help it out. Even a lot of the biggest initial fans of it are quick to admit that it's not much of a 'game', so they dropped out after the novelty wore off.

OTOH, it should be a bright shining light to Nintendo to go ahead and greenlight lots of other apps, designed by 1st party with no fractional profits to other parties. A quality Mario/Zelda/Kart entry on iOS/Android would make HEAPS of money. And no, Super Mario Run doesn't truly count. It's an 'auto-run' game, if you don't know what that is, look it up (TLDR : garbage game design that gets boring quickly, but an okay quick time waster).

Something along the lines of a 3DS-quality mainline mario title would be a HUGE game changer for mobile gaming on iOS/Android. Have the first world be free to play, but sell the full game for $24.99 and see it rack up record sales. Cross-buy credit if you own a 3DS or Switch = $$, because it would incentivize people who have iPhones or Androids but who haven't bought a 3DS or Switch to consider it.

The world is waiting for the paradigm to shift on how mobile games are made. This low-budget, low-content, nickel-and-dime crap can only go so far, and Nintendo could be just the company to turn that on its head, if they're brave and intelligent enough to do so.

Nobody would buy 25$ DLC in a mobile game. Mobile games thrive on microtransactions. Having such a steep price tag for more content would not encoure mobilr gamers.

Oh, and how do you even know how Mario Run plays? Judging from the gameplay shown so far, it's very different from other auto runners.



Torillian said:
Qwark said:
I agree with most of your points, yet you forget one crucial point. All the development studios of Nintendo will dedicate making NS games. The Wii U suffered to many droughts to ever pick up steam. If the NS does not have that problem it might become a succes after all. But announcing a system with unconfirmed specs and games except for Zelda is pretty stupid.

Has it ever been stated that Nintendo will dedicate all studios to making NS games?  Last I read they aren't looking at this as a 3DS successor and will have a handheld later.  One can assume they're lying but until otherwise stated I'd rather just assume they're being truthful and therefore there's no reason to believe that every Nintendo developed game will be on NS.

No, they have not stated that this console will be replacing both the Wii U and 3DS. They have not stated that the NS will start getting ports of 3DS games, or be treated as a successor to the 3DS. In fact, as you've stated, Nintendo has inferred the opposite of that. Anyone that says otherwise is making fairly large assumptions.

However, I know that simply by stating facts, and assuming that Nintendo actually means what they say/imply I'll get criticized by looking at Nintendo through a negative light, rather than an objective one.



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No, not $25 DLC. $25 for a full fledged major game, complete with marketing, with a free 4-level or so version, like demos used to be. It's an untapped market and something that nobody has seriously tried before. There are a lot of reasons this didn't happen 5 or even 2 years ago, but now that even budget smartphones are fairly powerful, and people have noticed the short-term success of Pokemon Go, the door is wide open. Instead of basically no-name (previous to becoming hits) IPs running the table on mobile (flappy bird, candy crush, angry birds, etc) .. actual powerhouse IPs with REAL MEATY GAMES could be an option.

Hell, release previous Pokemon titles on iOS/Android for $9.99 each, and watch them rack up the $$. Free money.

As for SMR : Auto-run is auto-run. It might be the best auto-run game of all time, but it's still .. well, I will reserve judgment entirely. I personally have never enjoyed an auto-run game more than a few minutes total. Just ehh, that's a fun waste of 10 minutes, now uninstall.



It isn´t really that difficult to see that my point was, that successful smartphone games can have huge profit margins compared to console projects, the mentioned example just showcases to what extremes it can lead. A single game doesn´t necessarily need to constanttly leapfrog the entire PS division to prove that lol.



GhaudePhaede010 said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:
The OP's point of consumers not wanting full home console experiences on the go is a good one. Here is a perfect example. Activision made the last two Skylanders games full experiences on tablets. They bombed. This years Skylanders game has a mobile app that is a perfect companion to the console game, letting you create Skylanders on the go. Smaller more mobilecentric experience on a mobile device is a better decision.

Are you serious? Games like Pokemon, Monster Hunter, any jrpg, Super Smash Bros., Kid Icarus, Street Fighter, and countless other 3DS titles completely spoil your, "point" here.

People do like home console experiences on the go. Your mindset is primitive. There was a time when people said home consoles should not mirror the big brother arcade experiences because nobody would want that. Looking back, home consoles mimicking arcades was the natural evolution and now hand held mimicking home console experiences should be seen as the next natural evolutionary step.

The fact that hand held/mobile gaming can do companion softwareis a great bonus but there are people that want the same home experiences when they are on the go. The PSP and PSVita sold on the premise of being closer to home console experiences and even though PSVita was not a success, there is obviously a market (a good sized one at that) for home console titles on the go.

Is the fact that the PSVita didn't sell well indicative that there isn't a good sized market, at least not any more? I mean, there was a market, but they've moved on to $100 tablets and free games from what I've seen.



padib said:
Mummelmann said:

I'm asking it as a general question now. Many posters seem to be of the opinion that there simply is nothing to criticize about the NS concept and the teaser, I'm merely curious if jumpin is one of these users. There's a middle ground between ultimate doom and full on blazing glory, something this site seems to have forgotten, or perhaps never knew at all.

What about you, do you see any potential problems with the concept and the teaser?

I know that Nintendo will be lacking games to show. I think there is an underlying problem too. But I don't think OP presented it properly.

I think choosing to do a teaser was the right way for Nintendo to go, because as I explained to torok in another thread, Nintendo always gets bashed when they show too much. People will always find something to fault them about. It's become a habit to bad-mouth Nintendo. So I personally believe they are doing the right thing to show less.

However, knowing Nintendo, I can see that they will have a sluggish start in terms of games, because they have a lot of 3rd party support for handhelds, but games for this will require much more dev time. The jump from 3DS to this is immense.

Having said that, the DS  also was off to a very slow start, but it eventually took off. I personally believe the same will happen on Switch. Slow start, worrisome at first but imho Nintendo has a winning formula with Switch so I think it's not worth it  to worry about too much.

Sorry it took so long to reply I was ultra busy yesterday and haven't been on since.

No worries, man, just came home from a 30 hour shift myself...

Well, you are someone I consider above average intelligent on these boards, and you make some good points. A teaser in itself may not be a bad idea, I disagree more with the actual content, and the somewhat confusing message from Nintendo in calling it a home gaming system when emphasis seems to lie on the mobile aspects, this is doubly confusing when adding the fact that they've denied that this is the successor to their actual handheld line, for now at least.

I think they're walking a dangerous path, they're going more or less right at the tablet segment of the market, with software that would otherwise not be played on tablet or smart devices, there's a good reason why most bigger and more complex software isn't published or widely played on tablets and phones. I think that the tablet form factor could harm more than help, it puts them directly in the line of fire in addition to causing certain limitations on things like battery life and, to a lesser extent, mobility. They need to convince what appears to be young adults and proffesionals in their 20's and 30's (if the teaser is anything to go by) that they want to carry with them an additional smart-like device, I think that it'll be a really tough sell. I fear they're going to place themselves somewhere between markets again with this solution.

The teaser and feel of this whole thing is also more like that of smart devices, where they spring details on you practically on the eve of launch, this is not how one traditionally shows and presents more static devices in consumer electronics, and this is another suggestion that they're actually chasing the smart-device touting young person. I'm just not sure that the typical Mario and Zelda fans, or Nintendo fans for that matter, are the same as this phone and tablet worshipping crowd (yeah, I know, Pokemon Go, Pokemon is its own thing since way back when and most people who play Go don't own a Wii U, for instance).

In short; Nintendo are seemingly, once more, trying to force a new market into being, not unlike with the Wii, which had an actual, unique hook for its target demographic with software that really complemented the hardware. They are pairing this with the attempted double-edged appeal of the Wii U, which we know failed spectacularly, and this has me worried for real.
I wanted Nintendo to sit down, analyze and respond to the market in a clever way, they are not in a position to simply whack together devices in order to be different and not think about whether or not the thing has an actual demographic.
Maybe I'm paranoid, dumb, or both, but I have a pretty bad feeling about the whole concept and the (in my opinion) somewhat confusing message(s) from Nintendo themselves regarding the whole thing (it's not a successor to handhelds, it's a home gaming system and not a hybrid, yet they focus mostly on mobile aspects, it makes no sense what so ever to me).

Maybe there's a master plan that I can't see, it wouldn't shock me, but it wouldn't shock me if there wasn't one either, to be honest.



ratuscafoarterea said:
oniyide said:

They cant compete directly with Sony and MS, so it would have been a mistake to even try.

No, you're wrong, Nintendo could compete with Sony and Microsfot, in fact they are in better finincial shape then Sony, so what makes you think that they couldn't. It's just that they don't have the will to do it.

The problem is that Nintendo has lost its brand power as a home gaming powerhouse. Sony stole that brand power back when the PS1 came out as a success and they have run with it ever since. They stumbled a bit with the PS3 and lost some ground to Microsoft due to other factors, but the huge comeback they made with the PS4 clearly shows that the brand is as strong as ever. I dare say that to the young gamer generation, Playstation means gaming, Xbox means gaming but Nintendo is something a little more nebulous. HH stuff and Pokemon and something something. And that is the biggest hurdle they would have to climb in order to get back in the game in the home console space. If they still want to pursue that in the first place.