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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - NS backwards compatibility.

Shiken said:
potato_hamster said:

This is absolutely ridiculous. From an objective point of view in terms of capability, you can do FAR more on a PS4 than you can on a Wii U. Who says I was just talking about graphical fidelity? Maybe you should look into Uncharted's engine, and how "to the metal" it is,allowing it to get more out of the PS4 than most developers could ever dream of. In fact members of Naughty Dog's team regularly consult on behalf of Sony to help other developers better optimize their games. On top of that, Uncharted 4's physics, AI and animation systems, and how they're some of the most advanced systems ever made for a video game. Don't make assumptions.

The Wii U flat out 100% could not run Uncharted 4. Don't kid yourself. The PS4's memory bandwith is over 7 times larger than the Wii U's. That allows you to do far more complex calculations of every sort for any purpose, and all of it would have to be pared down significantly to get the Wii U's version of Uncharted 4 besides scaling back the anti-aliasing, and simpliying some shaders. That's a fact.

You underestimate the talent at Naughtydog, as I am sure they could squeeze more out of the WiiU a non-developer like you or I could dream of.  😉

To be quite frank, Nintendo's teams have continuously demonstrated an uncanny ability to get the more out of hardware than I thought possible. I'm not sure if Naughty Dog could do a better job than what the team has done getting Breath of the Wild to run on the Wii U. My main point was that Naughty Dog appears to have those uncanny abilities with the PS4 hardware and they have a lot more to work with. When you're getting that level of optimization, scaling it back to much weaker hardware isn't feasible.



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potato_hamster said:
Shiken said:

You underestimate the talent at Naughtydog, as I am sure they could squeeze more out of the WiiU a non-developer like you or I could dream of.  😉

To be quite frank, Nintendo's teams have continuously demonstrated an uncanny ability to get the more out of hardware than I thought possible. I'm not sure if Naughty Dog could do a better job than what the team has done getting Breath of the Wild to run on the Wii U. My main point was that Naughty Dog appears to have those uncanny abilities with the PS4 hardware and they have a lot more to work with. When you're getting that level of optimization, scaling it back to much weaker hardware isn't feasible.

Oh the game would have to be built from the ground up FOR the WiiU, be at 720p, and the PS4 would certainly be better looking for obvious reasons.  It would need to be recoded in a way that would be outright illogical for the WiiU.  I was just saying it could be done.

 

But my main point was that the Switch can indeed run PS4 caliber games if the WiiU can do BotW.  I am not saying it has to match Uncharted 4 or anything, but it can do 720p on pretty much everything the PS4 has to offer.  Seeing as how that is all we need for the handheld portion, and that is what I am talking about wanting to use it for, any added power is a bonus for me at that point.  We won't know what it will be able to do docked until we see the specs.



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I think BC will be difficult since the architecture is different, but digital BC might be possible.



Shiken said:

This is the most incorrect statement I have ever read.  AI, scale, physics, etc all play a factor.  Fact of the matter is, BotW is on a Scale that is bigger than 90% of all PS4 games, physics deeper than ALL PS4 games, and has a smoother combat system than all PS4 games that fit this category.  It is a PS4 quality game, Uncharted graphics or not.  And we only saw the FIRST area of the game.

 

Only looking at the visuals is a very backwards way of thinking.

You may see it that way but most AAA graphics/engine programmers would be hard pressed to agree with you.

AI is a low hanging fruit and there's more to a next generation game design than bigger vs linear argument than you seem to imply and as far as physics go while BotW has been chasing Far Cry 2's rigid body and fire propagation system, PS4/X1 ushered in an era of GPU accelerated physics.

FWIW, Elite: dangerous, No Man's Sky and Minecraft(!) are arguably bigger games since they have procedurally generated worlds.



fatslob-:O said:
Shiken said:

This is the most incorrect statement I have ever read.  AI, scale, physics, etc all play a factor.  Fact of the matter is, BotW is on a Scale that is bigger than 90% of all PS4 games, physics deeper than ALL PS4 games, and has a smoother combat system than all PS4 games that fit this category.  It is a PS4 quality game, Uncharted graphics or not.  And we only saw the FIRST area of the game.

 

Only looking at the visuals is a very backwards way of thinking.

You may see it that way but most AAA graphics/engine programmers would be hard pressed to agree with you.

AI is a low hanging fruit and there's more to a next generation game design than bigger vs linear argument than you seem to imply and as far as physics go while BotW has been chasing Far Cry 2's rigid body and fire propagation system, PS4/X1 ushered in an era of GPU accelerated physics.

FWIW, Elite: dangerous, No Man's Sky and Minecraft(!) are arguably bigger games since they have procedurally generated worlds.

Did you really just compare three sandbox games with no plot to a Zelda game just to say they have a bigger world?  I think we are done here lol.



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Shiken said:

Did you really just compare three sandbox games with no plot to a Zelda game just to say they have a bigger world?  I think we are done here lol.

Double standard much ? First you define AI, scale, and physics to be the definition of 'caliber' all of which are solely technical merits then next thing you bring the standard of story or plot ...

And yes I think we are done here, at least for your end of the argument ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Shiken said:

Did you really just compare three sandbox games with no plot to a Zelda game just to say they have a bigger world?  I think we are done here lol.

Double standard much ? First you define AI, scale, and physics to be the definition of 'caliber' all of which are solely technical merits then next thing you bring the standard of story or plot ...

And yes I think we are done here, at least for your end of the argument ... 

The games you listed lack everything on the list.  You tried to list 3 sandbox games that have no plot or real depth to them at all.  The only thing they have are randomly generated worlds with no substance.

 

Let me spell it out for you.  You compared a game that has a huge world AND story AND superior physics AND great visuals AND solid combat AND depth to Minecraft and No Mans Sky.  Two games with NO plot, NO real physics, NO depth, HORRIBLE visuals (minecraft).

 

You really shot yourself in the foot here man.  This just shows how much you have to reach to counter my point.  Unless you have something constructive to debate, we are done here.



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3DS support would have been awesome, missed opportunity imo.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

Solid-Stark said:
3DS support would have been awesome, missed opportunity imo.

Not really.  I think the last thing Nintendo needs to do with the NS is add cost to it.  They need to lower its production costs as much as possible so they can sell it at an attractive price.



Shiken said:

The games you listed lack everything on the list.  You tried to list 3 sandbox games that have no plot or real depth to them at all.  The only thing they have are randomly generated worlds with no substance.

Let me spell it out for you.  You compared a game that has a huge world AND story AND superior physics AND great visuals AND solid combat AND depth to Minecraft and No Mans Sky.  Two games with NO plot, NO real physics, NO depth, HORRIBLE visuals (minecraft).

You really shot yourself in the foot here man.  This just shows how much you have to reach to counter my point.  Unless you have something constructive to debate, we are done here.

At least I didn't blurt out "It would lose a FEW things visually" just to undermine the importance of visual quality for the purpose of proceeding in your previous arugment with potato_hamster and BotW is a BIG DOWNGRADE compared to Uncharted 4 or whatever AAA current gen game no matter how you see it ... 

No Man's Sky having no physics is not even close to true and you want to argue these games having no depth while the Zelda demo showed an empty ass world ...

If you wanted the whole package even Just Cause 3 beats Zelda BotW by most of these metrics or is that not good enough since you changed standards again with 'solid combat' (whatever that would mean) ...

I'm reaching yet here you are introducing double standards ...