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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - More NX Hybrid + Two console idea confirmation?(video)

teigaga said:
PwerlvlAmy said:

People can deny it all they want but for Nintendo to continue in the console market, they need third party and yes even COD and Fifa,I'm not a fan of those franchises, but they still need those games.

Less games is not a positive 

As stated by me I feel best case scenario is they have the home console thats powerful as PS4 to be able to cater to what third parties want, then handheld to appease that side, like the video stated. Handheld hooks into the console and then is played on the TV and then take out the handheld from the console and take the game on the go,which will obviously be downscaled.

Strong console(ps4 level) + capable handheld + shared library = best case scenario imo

You're simplifying things waaaay too much.

Being a capable system doesn't equal third party support. Even then third party support doesn't equal third party success, lack of third party success means no more third party support. Case and point for both arguments is the Wii U. Didn't recieve most games released in 2013 despite being on par with 360/PS3, those that it did recieve didn't sell very well and thus support was short lived.

We have to acknowledge several things.

1. Most people who want to play third games favour Playstation and Xbox platforms for these games as a result of a decade old relationship & marketing (2 decades for playstation users). PS4/X1 have established themselves in the minds of consumers for big franchises, Nintendo is not undoing that mid generation without a miracle. This is without even bringing up the question of online membership/ecosystem.

2. Going by last gen numbers, around 40-50% of this generations userbase will have already picked up a PS4/Xbox One by the time the NX is out. Why on earth would they waste money getting an NX home console just to play the literal the same games, with the same graphics as the console they already have at home? For those yet to purchase a console, why would they lock themselves out of the online ecosystem their friends are a part of? Who are they going to play Fifa and COD with on NX when 80%  of their friends own a PS4/X1.

3. The NX home console will be left to die & third party games will FLOP. So we know that Nintendo handhelds always do better then their console simblings. Now imagine that the console sibling doesn't even have its own exclusives because they're all available on the handheld. Now imagine you already have a PC/Playstation/Xbox to play third party games and the NX isn't much more powerful then the PS4. It simply doesn't make sense that such an NX home console will find much success outside from the small portion of Hardcore gamers who want every system with decent "exclusives" & Nintendo fans who strongly prefer home consoles over handhelds and somehow only find third party games interesting when they're coming to a Nintendo platform.  

4. Developers will have little interest. Developers don't just throw their games on any platform thats capable. They put them on platforms they think have an audience and a future. A PS4 spec NX arriving after 3 years after the PS4, 5months after the much more power PS4 Pro and 6months before the beastly Scorpio will be a red flag to developers. Their audience who cares about optimun performance are going to go to one of the more powerful systems, their audience who cares about convenience will go to one of the more established platforms. Their future audience, if we jump 4 years forward, will not be playing on the -dated at launch/obsolete- NX. This is partially what happened to the Wii U. The mega publishers threw their generic support at it (AC, COD, Fifa etc). But all of the the slightly more core orientated games skipped it, because the developers knew that a 2012 system which barely out paces the PS3/360 is not going to attract or nurture the audience needed for their games to sell.

5.If all their games are cross platform, Nintendo aren't even going to use the power of the a PS4 level NX, not when the same game has to run on a handheld 1/5 as powerful. They'd either limit their scope for the console version or they'd spend so much time optimising for each platform they're half way developing 2 seperate games.

I'm completely down for a powerful, hardcore Nintendo gaming box. 2017 is not the time though..

A real NX hybrid means

-cheaper game developement & more games (arguably whats most important to Nintendo finacially). Bigger USP - portable/console in one. Not seperating their audience by platform. Not directly competing with PS4/X1 (so actually positioning themselves as meaningful secondary console). More chance for actual unique support from third parties through distinguishing itself as a unique platform to make money from-i.e its not like Nintendo are just cutting into Playstations pie, they'd be creating a whole new revenue opportunity that wouldn't exist otherwise. Tablet functionality to sell to kids & casual gamers. 

The absolute biggest flaw in your argument is #3. Essentially, if they both have the same library, how much one sells compared to the other isn't going to matter. The issue with WiiU and 3DS is when you make a game for one, you cut out any sales potential of the other (well bar the fact that some Wii U games are being ported to 3ds).

I don't think upscaling and downscaling games are going to be all that hard either, making argument 4 more of a possible issue than a real solid problem. If a 3rd party dev makes a game, a single cartridge, and it's available to both audiences (handheld or home console) it makes all the difference in the world. 



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bigtakilla said:
teigaga said:

You're simplifying things waaaay too much.

Being a capable system doesn't equal third party support. Even then third party support doesn't equal third party success, lack of third party success means no more third party support. Case and point for both arguments is the Wii U. Didn't recieve most games released in 2013 despite being on par with 360/PS3, those that it did recieve didn't sell very well and thus support was short lived.

We have to acknowledge several things.

1. Most people who want to play third games favour Playstation and Xbox platforms for these games as a result of a decade old relationship & marketing (2 decades for playstation users). PS4/X1 have established themselves in the minds of consumers for big franchises, Nintendo is not undoing that mid generation without a miracle. This is without even bringing up the question of online membership/ecosystem.

2. Going by last gen numbers, around 40-50% of this generations userbase will have already picked up a PS4/Xbox One by the time the NX is out. Why on earth would they waste money getting an NX home console just to play the literal the same games, with the same graphics as the console they already have at home? For those yet to purchase a console, why would they lock themselves out of the online ecosystem their friends are a part of? Who are they going to play Fifa and COD with on NX when 80%  of their friends own a PS4/X1.

3. The NX home console will be left to die & third party games will FLOP. So we know that Nintendo handhelds always do better then their console simblings. Now imagine that the console sibling doesn't even have its own exclusives because they're all available on the handheld. Now imagine you already have a PC/Playstation/Xbox to play third party games and the NX isn't much more powerful then the PS4. It simply doesn't make sense that such an NX home console will find much success outside from the small portion of Hardcore gamers who want every system with decent "exclusives" & Nintendo fans who strongly prefer home consoles over handhelds and somehow only find third party games interesting when they're coming to a Nintendo platform.  

4. Developers will have little interest. Developers don't just throw their games on any platform thats capable. They put them on platforms they think have an audience and a future. A PS4 spec NX arriving after 3 years after the PS4, 5months after the much more power PS4 Pro and 6months before the beastly Scorpio will be a red flag to developers. Their audience who cares about optimun performance are going to go to one of the more powerful systems, their audience who cares about convenience will go to one of the more established platforms. Their future audience, if we jump 4 years forward, will not be playing on the -dated at launch/obsolete- NX. This is partially what happened to the Wii U. The mega publishers threw their generic support at it (AC, COD, Fifa etc). But all of the the slightly more core orientated games skipped it, because the developers knew that a 2012 system which barely out paces the PS3/360 is not going to attract or nurture the audience needed for their games to sell.

5.If all their games are cross platform, Nintendo aren't even going to use the power of the a PS4 level NX, not when the same game has to run on a handheld 1/5 as powerful. They'd either limit their scope for the console version or they'd spend so much time optimising for each platform they're half way developing 2 seperate games.

I'm completely down for a powerful, hardcore Nintendo gaming box. 2017 is not the time though..

A real NX hybrid means

-cheaper game developement & more games (arguably whats most important to Nintendo finacially). Bigger USP - portable/console in one. Not seperating their audience by platform. Not directly competing with PS4/X1 (so actually positioning themselves as meaningful secondary console). More chance for actual unique support from third parties through distinguishing itself as a unique platform to make money from-i.e its not like Nintendo are just cutting into Playstations pie, they'd be creating a whole new revenue opportunity that wouldn't exist otherwise. Tablet functionality to sell to kids & casual gamers. 

The absolute biggest flaw in your argument is #3. Essentially, if they both have the same library, how much one sells compared to the other isn't going to matter. The issue with WiiU and 3DS is when you make a game for one, you cut out any sales potential of the other (well bar the fact that some Wii U games are being ported to 3ds).

I don't think upscaling and downscaling games are going games are going to be all that hard either, making argument 4 more of a possible issue than a real solid problem. If a 3rd party dev makes a game, a single cartridge, and it's available to both audiences (handheld or home console) it makes all the difference in the world. 

Neither are flaws

No.3 essentially means that third parties will fail on the home console, since the console itself would barely sell. One of the main arguments for the NX not being a hybrid is that it'd be a weak home console and not recieve any/a lot of third party support. 

No.4 is trivial but is still relevant to Nintendo's profit margins. Instead of trying to optimise for 2 vastly different spec ranges, why not just have one system with a slightly overclocked mode for 1080p resolution and slightly prettier graphics? Either way they'd likely work from the weakest benchmark up, meaning that the 2TFLOP home console's power won't really go to full use. It just begs the question of why Nintendo should even bother. Its just another reason why one hybrid system makes more financial sense for Nintendo then 2 seperate systems. 

I'm not strongly against a standalone handhled & console each with different specs, but the person I was responding was suggesting that that it makes a lot more sense than a legit hybrid. It doesn't. 



My take on the posible hardware make up of the NX, is that within the handheld will be the SoC, and the docking station will house a GPU which by it self is useless (as it would have no CPU) but together with the handheld makes one unit. The handheld could be released as a separate SKU or purchaced together with docking station.

This also opens up the  possiblity for GPU upgrades in the future.

I think it is an unlikely senario as it could be quite expensive, but a possibility.



teigaga said:
bigtakilla said:

The absolute biggest flaw in your argument is #3. Essentially, if they both have the same library, how much one sells compared to the other isn't going to matter. The issue with WiiU and 3DS is when you make a game for one, you cut out any sales potential of the other (well bar the fact that some Wii U games are being ported to 3ds).

I don't think upscaling and downscaling games are going games are going to be all that hard either, making argument 4 more of a possible issue than a real solid problem. If a 3rd party dev makes a game, a single cartridge, and it's available to both audiences (handheld or home console) it makes all the difference in the world. 

Neither are flaws

No.3 essentially means that third parties will fail on the home console, since the console itself would barely sell. One of the main arguments for the NX not being a hybrid is that it'd be a weak home console and not recieve any/a lot of third party support. 

No.4 is trivial but is still relevant to Nintendo's profit margins. Instead of trying to optimise for 2 vastly different spec ranges, why not just have one system with a slightly overclocked mode for 1080p resolution and slightly prettier graphics? Either way they'd likely work from the weakest benchmark up, meaning that the 2TFLOP home console's power won't really go to full use. It just begs the question of why Nintendo should even bother. Its just another reason why one hybrid system makes more financial sense for Nintendo then 2 seperate systems. 

I'm not strongly against a standalone handhled & console each with different specs, but the person I was responding was suggesting that that it makes a lot more sense than a legit hybrid. It doesn't. 

How can you say third parties will fail on the home console, when the exact same game (minus a few effects that simply will be bypassed on the handheld, and will render at a lower resolution) will be on handheld. The point is third parties won't have to choose what they're developing for anymore. The same cart used for home console can also be put into the handheld. 

 

Breaking that barrier is what Nintendo needs to do. Not force people to buy expensive hardware for features they don't want.



bigtakilla said:
teigaga said:

Neither are flaws

No.3 essentially means that third parties will fail on the home console, since the console itself would barely sell. One of the main arguments for the NX not being a hybrid is that it'd be a weak home console and not recieve any/a lot of third party support. 

No.4 is trivial but is still relevant to Nintendo's profit margins. Instead of trying to optimise for 2 vastly different spec ranges, why not just have one system with a slightly overclocked mode for 1080p resolution and slightly prettier graphics? Either way they'd likely work from the weakest benchmark up, meaning that the 2TFLOP home console's power won't really go to full use. It just begs the question of why Nintendo should even bother. Its just another reason why one hybrid system makes more financial sense for Nintendo then 2 seperate systems. 

I'm not strongly against a standalone handhled & console each with different specs, but the person I was responding was suggesting that that it makes a lot more sense than a legit hybrid. It doesn't. 

How can you say third parties will fail on the home console, when the exact same game (minus a few effects that simply will be bypassed on the handheld, and will render at a lower resolution) will be on handheld. The point is third parties won't have to choose what they're developing for anymore. The same cart used for home console can also be put into the handheld. 

 

Breaking that barrier is what Nintendo needs to do. Not force people to buy expensive hardware for features they don't want.


This concept of "one cartridge for two (or more) consoles" needs to go away. Boogie slightly misspoke here. The "console" is a docking station. The NX isn't a platform. It's a handheld game console that can be easily plugged into a tv. That's pretty much all there is to it.



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The wording he chose made it seem (more) like a home console that features a mobile component.



So another source which confirmes the hybrid concept.
Seems like a given now that NX will be a mix between home console and handheld.



Hiku said:

 

Miyamotoo said:
People saying this guy is believable and honest, that he giving false information.

Hmm? I'm guessing you typed that out in a werird way.

D:

"he not giving false informations".



Mar1217 said:
Miyamotoo said:

Totally agree, base unit and handheld/tablet device.

 

 

Yes, handheld/tablet hooked in "base unit", two devices, basicly like infos we already have.

You shouldn't twist the words of someone just to make it match your view. He talked about a Handheld, no mention of something that seems like a tablet device, pluged into a Console, no mention of a docking station(base unit or docking station either).

This point towards the direction of the NX being an ecosystem of 2 devices.

"I've talked to two people who have used it. One is from Ubisoft and he said programming for it is actually really nice and Nintendo is working very closely with him and that the concept is great because he said, you could play... Uh, I dunno how careful I should be with it... Let's say you could play Assassin's Creed once you have your handheld plugged into your console. And then, you could then detach the thing and take it with you and play the Assassin's Creed mobile game out of your pocket. And then when you get back home, plug it directly in and now it attaches back to the... That's brilliant. That's smart, right? Taking a form of the game with you as you go. So he says it's a dream to code for. And then somebody I know who's played on the NX for 20 minutes said... It's as innovative as they'd hoped and 'we wish we had done that.'"

 

To me sounds like Hybrid of handheld and base unit, not seperate handheld and seperate home console. Also in his latest videos he referred to NX like hybrid.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8088784