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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony 'Pleasantly Surprised' by Strong PS4 Pro Pre-Orders

thismeintiel on 16 September 2016
LurkerJ said:
thismeintiel said:

Yea, he's kinda contradicting himself there.  He says a Pro 2 because Sony won't want to reset the next gen, though that has never hurt them before, and then says they can call it PS5 if they want.  Calling it PS5 is what resets the gen.  Even if it's B/C with PS4, that still counts as a reset, and has been done plenty of times before.

Just because resetting generations has worked well in the past, it doesn't mean there aren't better ways to do things.

SONY profit margins on Playstation hardware are very thin, and in many cases, they were sold at a loss for many years, they make more money selling software, selling PSN subscriptions, Playstation Vue if that's a thing and so on. Selling playstation consoles is important, what availabe playstation model sells the most isn't nearly as important if your money-maker is the software and locking consumers into your ecosystem.

I believe the PS4 Pro will play All PS5 (or whatever it's called) games, that's a clear departure from simply releasing a new console with BC. Developers can easily make it work, for years, we've gotten cross-generational games with the PS3 despite the vastly different architecture. That barrier should be gone and ALL developers can wisely choose to make their games for the Pro and the PS5 to maximize profits. Just like Android and PC developers make their software avaiable to an exceedingly large amount of different hardware

Don't ask me "even if SONY doesn't care what available playstation model you buy, what's the point of buying a PS5 for the consumer?", the answer is "What's the point of buying a PS4 Pro?"

Consumers will always buy consoles to play video games, many consumers will buy the best consoles they can get. SONY should appeal to both. Because for SONY, it's all the same, they make pathetic amounts of profits on hardware, so their goal should shift to maximizing the userbase that they can sell the software to, you can bet third-party developers want the same thing too, since they are not in the business of selling hardware. SONY has done all the right steps to please third party developers this time, and the let go of the old "resetting the user-base to zero" concept is an extension of those right steps. 

The profit margins on consoles has gone up thanks to adopting off the shelf parts.  Just look at the PS4 S.  There's no way they aren't making at least $50 off of one of those.  Heck, even the OG PS4 didn't take long for Sony to start making a profit on.

Still, you are correct that the vast majority of money comes from SW.  Which is a reason to not go F/C.  I mean, do you honestly think devs and pubs are going to do away with the remasters they are making so much money on, recently?  That would be foolish.  You get rid of generations, there is little reason for remasters later.  You're also making the wait to jump to the next gen much more baerable and taking part of the reason to go next gen, it won't have anymore exclusives.  Sure the Pro doesn't have any exclusives, but the PS4 family does.  Do you honestly think next gen would start off so well if Sony announces, "Oh, BTW, there's no need to rush to get our new system, the $299 PS4 Pro can run them all, AND IN 4K!!"  Sony will be losing what profit they do make on HW and it'll make the PS5 look like it is performing below expectations.



 

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Goodnightmoon on 16 September 2016
BraLoD said:
Goodnightmoon said:

I guess is normal they are surprised, honestly it looked like they didn't even know why they made the pro when they were showing it and looked like 4k tv owners were the only real target here, and those are a huge minority, so it could be surprising for someone, however I thought brand power alone would be reflected in pre-orders as it happened. What happens after that is yet to be seen though.

That's wrong on every level.
The presentation of the Pro was on point on every functionality and what it was aimed for.
One thing is saying Cerny voice wasn't exciting, but it's a completely other thing to say they didn't know why they made it, as they made every point very clear on the meeting, about HDR, 4K, 1080p improvement, full PS4 compatibily and showing how games could and would benefity from it.

No that's not wrong on every level when the whole media expressed a very similar opinion, sony looked like they didn't really know how to sell it and that's why they make such a dense and boring presentation with useless showcases like "this is the game at 1080p and this is 4k" and nobody in their houses saw any difference.



Goodnightmoon on 16 September 2016
LurkerJ said:
Goodnightmoon said:

I guess is normal they are surprised, honestly it looked like they didn't even know why they made the pro when they were showing it and looked like 4k tv owners were the only real target here, and those are a huge minority, so it could be surprising for someone, however I thought brand power alone would be reflected in pre-orders as it happened. What happens after that is yet to be seen though.

You buy the Pro for the same reason you buy the Note 7 instead of the Note 6, the iPhone 6s instead of the 6. People are on board with that, that's enough of a point from the consumers' perspective. You don't need more reasons. 

For SONY, it doesn't matter which model you buy, they make money from selling software and PSN subscriptions. SONY profit margins on hardware have always been mediocre at best, hemorrhaging and costly at worst, which has been the case many times. 

You have a good point there.



Goodnightmoon on 16 September 2016
BraLoD said:
Goodnightmoon said:

No that's not wrong on every level when the whole media expressed a very similar opinion, sony looked like they didn't really know how to sell it and that's why they make such a dense and boring presentation with useless showcases like "this is the game at 1080p and this is 4k" and nobody in their houses saw any difference.

Again, the presentation being boring to some is not an argument or point on the subject to begin with.
Much less that "nobody in their houses saw any difference", I saw them, but that's not the point as well.
And what the media want to get or not is not the subject just as well.

Sony did showcase the system functionalities and explained then, that's what matters, and for sure doesn't made them look like they didn't even know what they made if for, that's factually completely false.

Maybe I didn't expressed myself correctly, I mean that I felt like they didn't knew who they were aiming for with the console appart from 4k tv owners, yet they were trying to make it look as something more than a ps4 for 4k tv owners. They didn't even show any significant improvement for people with normal tvs.



ZODIARKrebirth on 16 September 2016

I'm a little surprised, because it get more attention at the moment than the slim



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LurkerJ on 16 September 2016
thismeintiel said:
LurkerJ said:

Just because resetting generations has worked well in the past, it doesn't mean there aren't better ways to do things.

SONY profit margins on Playstation hardware are very thin, and in many cases, they were sold at a loss for many years, they make more money selling software, selling PSN subscriptions, Playstation Vue if that's a thing and so on. Selling playstation consoles is important, what availabe playstation model sells the most isn't nearly as important if your money-maker is the software and locking consumers into your ecosystem.

I believe the PS4 Pro will play All PS5 (or whatever it's called) games, that's a clear departure from simply releasing a new console with BC. Developers can easily make it work, for years, we've gotten cross-generational games with the PS3 despite the vastly different architecture. That barrier should be gone and ALL developers can wisely choose to make their games for the Pro and the PS5 to maximize profits. Just like Android and PC developers make their software avaiable to an exceedingly large amount of different hardware

Don't ask me "even if SONY doesn't care what available playstation model you buy, what's the point of buying a PS5 for the consumer?", the answer is "What's the point of buying a PS4 Pro?"

Consumers will always buy consoles to play video games, many consumers will buy the best consoles they can get. SONY should appeal to both. Because for SONY, it's all the same, they make pathetic amounts of profits on hardware, so their goal should shift to maximizing the userbase that they can sell the software to, you can bet third-party developers want the same thing too, since they are not in the business of selling hardware. SONY has done all the right steps to please third party developers this time, and the let go of the old "resetting the user-base to zero" concept is an extension of those right steps. 

The profit margins on consoles has gone up thanks to adopting off the shelf parts.  Just look at the PS4 S.  There's no way they aren't making at least $50 off of one of those.  Heck, even the OG PS4 didn't take long for Sony to start making a profit on.

Still, you are correct that the vast majority of money comes from SW.  Which is a reason to not go F/C.  I mean, do you honestly think devs and pubs are going to do away with the remasters they are making so much money on, recently?  That would be foolish.  You get rid of generations, there is little reason for remasters later.  You're also making the wait to jump to the next gen much more baerable and taking part of the reason to go next gen, it won't have anymore exclusives.  Sure the Pro doesn't have any exclusives, but the PS4 family does.  Do you honestly think next gen would start off so well if Sony announces, "Oh, BTW, there's no need to rush to get our new system, the $299 PS4 Pro can run them all, AND IN 4K!!"  Sony will be losing what profit they do make on HW and it'll make the PS5 look like it is performing below expectations.

Don't forget the Slim is significantly cheaper than the original PS4, I am not saying you are wrong, but even if the Slim makes 50$ per unit for SONY, which is doubtful, that's still less money than the cheapest one year PSN subscrption available (it's cheapest in the US, and more expensive everywhere else). 

It's true that letting go of the generations concept will close some doors, but it will open others. 

Yes, remasters will not be possible the way they were after the PS4 release, but a publisher like EA, for example, with its big library of games, will have every game they released so far, available to every future Playstation owner with no extra work, many publishers would prefer that sort of software distrubution. And don't underestimate publishers, they can still sell you remasters, definitive versions, complete editions, zombies editions etc. They will find ways to resell their games, don't worry about that. Haven't SONY already stated that developers can charge for visual upgrades if they want? I am not sure if that's confirmed yet, that's an already new opened door if it's confirmed. 

Also, It's true that PS5 sales might not see the usual sales spikes we see with every new generation, but Playstation sales can be take a new form, instead of huge spikes and declines, we'll get a predictable linear chart from sales to the usual type of gamer who's been there since the playstation one days, profits mostly from software and PSN subscriptions from locked in or new users. Spikes can still happen if new techonologies like VR prove their worth, or something like motion controls bring unprecedent amount of casual gamers again.

I may be wrong after all, but that's what I would do if I were SONY. I'd also whip SCEJ into form and look into making studios that pump out quality AAA titles like ND (which I loathe but that's a different subject). One of the benefits of doing things my way would be denying MS the chance to start the race from zero, keeping the momentum going on the PS side when it comes to traditional consoles, especially that all Xbox exclusives will be playable on PC. I am not underestimating Nintendo, but they are clearly approaching the industry in their own unique ways and concentrating on mobile gaming. Every other electronic giant looks down upon the gaming industry, too much work, not enoug money, here is my shiny 1k smartphone with its 400$ profit margin lol



NobleTeam360 on 16 September 2016
Lawlight said:
thismeintiel said:

What are you talking about? Sony benefited greatly from resetting the gen. It allowed them to take the crown back. It definitely didn't hurt them with the PS2. There will be a PS5. Sony isn't going to screw up the console market by getting into some specs war with MS. They've already proven that with the Pro, something they could have altered slightly to get it closer to the Scorpio's theoretical 6 Tflops. The console market will start to die if they start releasing HW every two years and people aren't going to want a PS4 Pro 4. At that point, there really is little point in not buying a PC.

I guess people think Sony is lying when they say they aren't going generationless.

They already took the crown back with the PS3.

Oh? When did the PS3 sale more than the Wii? Or are people still going along with that argument that Wii doesn't count? 



LurkerJ on 16 September 2016
NobleTeam360 said:
Lawlight said:

They already took the crown back with the PS3.

Oh? When did the PS3 sale more than the Wii? Or are people still going along with that argument that Wii doesn't count? 

Are we even sure the PS3 outsold the x360? That claim was only supported by VGC numbers which are now widly, instead of partially back then, believed to be a joke.



NobleTeam360 on 16 September 2016
LurkerJ said:
NobleTeam360 said:

Oh? When did the PS3 sale more than the Wii? Or are people still going along with that argument that Wii doesn't count? 

Are we even sure the PS3 outsold the x360? That claim was only supported by VGC numbers which are now widly, instead of partially back then, believed to be a joke.

Honestly we'll probably never know unless MS and Sony decide to give the lifetime figures for PS3 and 360. 



LurkerJ on 16 September 2016
RolStoppable said:
Preorders for Sony products are always above expectations. I am pretty sure that they said the same about their VR headset; watch that thing flop this fall. The PS4 Pro won't flop, but yeah... PR isn't a good indicator for anything.

Has any of the released VR headsets found success? I won't be surprised if stays 4ever a niche, and it won't be the first time for a certain product to get a push from most tech giants just for it to flop.