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Forums - Gaming - Would it make sense for Sony to add an UHD drive in 12 months?

greenmedic88 on 09 September 2016
FloatingWaffles said:
Ok, well that makes more sense. But it still just seems completely pointless for a revision of the PS4 Pro for 4K UHD when it's a feature that they could have had right from the beginning, especially when it's apparently cheap to add in as well. 

I understand maybe they didn't include it becasue they wanted to hit that $399 price, but I feel like even if they had to bring up the price just to have it included that would have been fine since they said PS4 Pro is a product for the people that want that extra power so I don't think those people would have minded paying more for a 4K UHD to be included. 

I don't see the average consumer that doesn't pay attention to gaming and stuff on the internet carying about the PS4 Pro anyway. They would just see 2 models, probably ask someone working there about them, find out that they play the exact same games and that one of them is $100 cheaper than the other? Sold for the PS4 Slim. So I feel like if Sony had to bring up the price to include it they should have done that since this will only be for the people that truly pay attention to power and stuff like that anyway. 

I recently read that adding the UHD drive supposedly only adds about $15 to the overall BoM, so either this is a case of Sony really shaving down the production costs per unit, (and to be fair, three years into a product life cycle, console manufacturers should not be taking hits on their hardware unless they're doing something very wrong) or UHD is projected by Sony to be a smaller niche AV enthusiast format rather than a mainstream consumer format. 

It probably speaks more about the future relevance of optical media distribution models in general. It's pretty clear that most companies that have established walled gardens for content consumption prefer digital distribution. 

I'm not going to say Sony is being inconsistent here: the PS4 was originally marketed as a gaming device rather than as a TV box as was the case with the Xbox One. Go back and watch the product introductions from 2013 in case anyone's forgotten. 



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ICStats on 09 September 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

You're right about the defending part. He's already saying in other threads that people shouldn't care about UHD discs anyway because they aren't "real 4K" but upscaled, as if that is a bad thing. But then he says BluRay's look "exceptional" upscaled to 4K and is excited about upscaled 4K gaming. These things with lower quality assets upscaled to 4K are going to be super, and look "exceptional", but a UHD movie on a disc is a waste because it's not "real 4K".

400 million dollars saved by not including the drive... the hoops people will jump through, lol.

Seriously? How would it look if Sony released a fourth console revision just to add UHD support when X1 S was doing it over a year prior at a lower price.

The backlash would be big and it would also make Sony look reactive, something they claim they arent about.

Again, at this rate it could make sense for some PS4 Pro Slim 2 or 3 years from now. Thats the only way they can do it without looking bad

There's a lot of talk about big backlash, but nobody really knows that.  Was there backlash when Xbox 360 added a HDMI port?  Backlash over adding new features to consoles is unproven.  Heck, Microsoft  practically discontinued Kinect games support 1.5 years after console launch.  The backlash from people that paid $100 for the thing should be huge... but nope.  No real backlash.

Nope, it's pretty easy to spin the addition of a non-essential upgrade: add the upgrade for a nominal price increase so everyone feels like they're getting more for more, and then later drop the price of the "upgraded" model to the original while discontinuing the former.



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KBG29 on 09 September 2016

It would not be shocking one bit if we had a move to a 10nm FinFET family of PlayStation products next year, if 10nm in fact makes its scheduled release.

If Sony revises the PS4 lineup again next year it could look something like;

PS4 ES - $399.99
-6TFLOPs
-12GB HBM2
-UHD Blu ray
-2TB HDD

PS4 Pro - $299.99
-Simple revision, identical to current PS4 Pro, but more efficient.

PS4 21XX - $199.99
-Again same as OG PS4, but built on 10nm for better efficiency.

I think this is bound to happen, with they do it next year or in 2018, Sony will no doubt use the move from 14nm to 10nm to lower product costs, and offer a more premium model.



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Mr Puggsly on 10 September 2016
Kerotan said:
Mr Puggsly said:

It would be less niche if every PS4 Pro owner UHD. Thats how other formats got off the ground, being in consoles.

No, Sony would look bad putting out a new model just a year later. Also, Sony said the next upgrade would be a completely new console. Its also reactive to Xbox. Basically you want them to go against what they boast about. Again, they may wait  a PS4 Pro Slim if they ever add UHD.

UHD drives also have increased storage capacity. So the next consoles will likely use them given they will also be cheap.

I'm a gamer who hasn't bought a standard blu ray in years.  I'm glad they put people like me first.  

#4theplayers is why they're dominating the market not #4theblurayplayers.  

They'll look bad to a select few but like this week's meltdown the general market won't care and it will be just another feature on the ps4 to buy.  

Whether Sony include a uhd player or not that market ain't catching on anytime soon.  They single handedly pulled the blu ray market to relevance last gen.  At great financial cost.  I think it's Microsofts turn to do the same this gen.  Good luck to them.  Because it ain't going to be easy. 

Oh, UHD support in their 4K console would really hurt gamers. Because that would take what away from gamers? Or maybe as you suggested it just saves them money and they will have an expensive 4K player eventually.

MS aint spending nearly as much to have UHD as Sony spent for Bluray and teh Cell on PS3. Bluray didnt have much impact on the gaming experience either on PS3.

As I suggested before, having UHD may futureproof the Scorpio to share games with the next Xbox One. They hold 100GB, Scorpio and the next Xbox can utilize that.



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Guitarguy on 10 September 2016

Whilst it would piss off some people, Sony did put out two Slim revisions of the PS3 last generation, although the Super Slim had no advantages over the original Slim or phat PS3 other than being alot smaller. Wouldn't surprise me if they put out a Pro Slim in 2019..



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Mr Puggsly on 10 September 2016
ICStats said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Seriously? How would it look if Sony released a fourth console revision just to add UHD support when X1 S was doing it over a year prior at a lower price.

The backlash would be big and it would also make Sony look reactive, something they claim they arent about.

Again, at this rate it could make sense for some PS4 Pro Slim 2 or 3 years from now. Thats the only way they can do it without looking bad

There's a lot of talk about big backlash, but nobody really knows that.  Was there backlash when Xbox 360 added a HDMI port?  Backlash over adding new features to consoles is unproven.  Heck, Microsoft  practically discontinued Kinect games support 1.5 years after console launch.  The backlash from people that paid $100 for the thing should be huge... but nope.  No real backlash.

Nope, it's pretty easy to spin the addition of a non-essential upgrade: add the upgrade for a nominal price increase so everyone feels like they're getting more for more, and then later drop the price of the "upgraded" model to the original while discontinuing the former.

Bad comparisin because 360 still did HD via component or you could buy the HDMI attachment.

The backlash was MS forcing people to buy Kinect. People didnt complain very much about lack of support because many didnt want it from the start. Isnt this obvious?

I think adding UHD to PS4 is fine, eventually. But next year solely as a response to Scorpio would anger people. Maybe put it in the PS4 Pro Slim.



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Kerotan on 10 September 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Kerotan said:

I'm a gamer who hasn't bought a standard blu ray in years.  I'm glad they put people like me first.  

#4theplayers is why they're dominating the market not #4theblurayplayers.  

They'll look bad to a select few but like this week's meltdown the general market won't care and it will be just another feature on the ps4 to buy.  

Whether Sony include a uhd player or not that market ain't catching on anytime soon.  They single handedly pulled the blu ray market to relevance last gen.  At great financial cost.  I think it's Microsofts turn to do the same this gen.  Good luck to them.  Because it ain't going to be easy. 

Oh, UHD support in their 4K console would really hurt gamers. Because that would take what away from gamers? Or maybe as you suggested it just saves them money and they will have an expensive 4K player eventually.

MS aint spending nearly as much to have UHD as Sony spent for Bluray and teh Cell on PS3. Bluray didnt have much impact on the gaming experience either on PS3.

As I suggested before, having UHD may futureproof the Scorpio to share games with the next Xbox One. They hold 100GB, Scorpio and the next Xbox can utilize that.

No they'll save money,  play games which they bought it for and then a minority will buy blu rays to play on it.  

And when this tech is more mainstream it will likely be implemented in the ps5. 

 

X360 stuck with dvd for 10 years while ps3 had blu ray.  I didn't see you giving out about that and most of the market didn't care.  If the 360 can go 10 years the ps4 pro can go 3/4 years until the ps5. 

 

Or like I said, if it costs very little extra they can just add it in.  Maybe a ps4 pro slim in 2 years.  



Mr Puggsly on 10 September 2016
Kerotan said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Oh, UHD support in their 4K console would really hurt gamers. Because that would take what away from gamers? Or maybe as you suggested it just saves them money and they will have an expensive 4K player eventually.

MS aint spending nearly as much to have UHD as Sony spent for Bluray and teh Cell on PS3. Bluray didnt have much impact on the gaming experience either on PS3.

As I suggested before, having UHD may futureproof the Scorpio to share games with the next Xbox One. They hold 100GB, Scorpio and the next Xbox can utilize that.

No they'll save money,  play games which they bought it for and then a minority will buy blu rays to play on it.  

And when this tech is more mainstream it will likely be implemented in the ps5. 

X360 stuck with dvd for 10 years while ps3 had blu ray.  I didn't see you giving out about that and most of the market didn't care.  If the 360 can go 10 years the ps4 pro can go 3/4 years until the ps5. 

Or like I said, if it costs very little extra they can just add it in.  Maybe a ps4 pro slim in 2 years.  

UHD would have been a great and logical feature for PS4 Pro. But Sony wanted to save money... not much else to say. Sony won, consumers lost. Simple as that. According to you its not even an expensive device.

Bluray was definitely an advantage for PS3, atleast  the price was equal. And again, its just really bizarre it didn't go for UHD on the console boasting so hard about 4K.

Yeah, in PS4 Pro is a good idea. But a year from now is too reactive and could annoy early adopters. I imagine Sony wants to avoid that.



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Kerotan on 11 September 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Kerotan said:

No they'll save money,  play games which they bought it for and then a minority will buy blu rays to play on it.  

And when this tech is more mainstream it will likely be implemented in the ps5. 

X360 stuck with dvd for 10 years while ps3 had blu ray.  I didn't see you giving out about that and most of the market didn't care.  If the 360 can go 10 years the ps4 pro can go 3/4 years until the ps5. 

Or like I said, if it costs very little extra they can just add it in.  Maybe a ps4 pro slim in 2 years.  

UHD would have been a great and logical feature for PS4 Pro. But Sony wanted to save money... not much else to say. Sony won, consumers lost. Simple as that. According to you its not even an expensive device.

Bluray was definitely an advantage for PS3, atleast  the price was equal. And again, its just really bizarre it didn't go for UHD on the console boasting so hard about 4K.

Yeah, in PS4 Pro is a good idea. But a year from now is too reactive and could annoy early adopters. I imagine Sony wants to avoid that.

Let's not rewrite history here.  If ps3 had a dvd player and cost a lot less than it did it wouldn't have stumbled out the gate.  

 

You say Sony won and consumers lost.  By thet logic consumers lost with the Wii and the 360. Well on the 360 those who bought the HD dvd actually did lose.  

 

You're wrong to say consumers lost.  You'd be right though if you specified that a really small percentage of consumers have lost.  Because UHD is niche in its market.  

 

Sony won,  yes,  all consumers didn't lose,  a small niche did,  and all consumers won in terms of price.  Happy days.  



Mr Puggsly on 11 September 2016
Kerotan said:
Mr Puggsly said:

UHD would have been a great and logical feature for PS4 Pro. But Sony wanted to save money... not much else to say. Sony won, consumers lost. Simple as that. According to you its not even an expensive device.

Bluray was definitely an advantage for PS3, atleast  the price was equal. And again, its just really bizarre it didn't go for UHD on the console boasting so hard about 4K.

Yeah, in PS4 Pro is a good idea. But a year from now is too reactive and could annoy early adopters. I imagine Sony wants to avoid that.

Let's not rewrite history here.  If ps3 had a dvd player and cost a lot less than it did it wouldn't have stumbled out the gate.  

You say Sony won and consumers lost.  By thet logic consumers lost with the Wii and the 360. Well on the 360 those who bought the HD dvd actually did lose.  

You're wrong to say consumers lost.  You'd be right though if you specified that a really small percentage of consumers have lost.  Because UHD is niche in its market.  

Sony won,  yes,  all consumers didn't lose,  a small niche did,  and all consumers won in terms of price.  Happy days.  

I'm not rewriting history, the Cell was a super processor and compeltely unnecessary for a game console. Using a more traditional, low end, processor would have been easier for developers to work with and cheaper. Perhaps they should have spent more on the GPU and less on the CPU. The processor change alone could have kept the price lower.

Okay, consumers benefit from not having UHD in their 4K box. That's obvious.



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