I have already quite clearly said what I thought it would be priced at, $499.  So, let's not be disingenuous to try and act like you have a point.  There's a reason MS talked about the price of the GPU, to brace people for a higher price.  They are going to ask for a higher price over the PS4 Pro, using the 4K Bluray and ~1.8 Tflops increase as justifications for said price.  Of course, that's not going to help when the Pro will most likely be $150 cheaper than it by the time it finally launches.

The generation should have started with his level of imagry in my opinion. From day one I was unimpressed with the PS4 and Xbox One.

You assume that PC and Xbox are replacements for each other, they aren't.

I have multiple PC's, Tablets, Phones... And yet my Original Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One haven't been replaced by anything.
I like the interoperability between platforms, it's a draw card.
I like being able to play a game on my Laptop, while sitting outside under the tree... Then getting up walking inside, sitting on the couch and firing up that same game on Xbox.

So you mean Microsoft isn't going to be using an x86 derived AMD for the CPU and a Graphics Core Next based GPU with Scorpio? And will use a completely new OS and API layout that isn't Windows/Direct X derived?
Why have I not heard of this? Oh wait. You actually have no idea do you?

Flops isn't everything.

Agreed. The double standards are pretty rife amongst this forum.

Whilst true, Microsoft is getting beaten badly this console generation... It's still not the same extent as the Original Xbox vs Playstation 2. :P

Microsoft will likely not "reset" it's userbase (This is the indication they have been giving out by stating there won't be another console generation) by initiating another console generation, but constantly releasing iterative hardware upgrades every few years, which isn't a bad plan really.

It will be interesting to see how things play out over the long term though.

With that said, sales doesn't discredit Scorpio's power advantage.

It works both ways. Allot of people bought Crysis because they didn't wish to run the game, they wished to benchmark it, even on extremely antiquated hardware, I was a mod on the In Crysis forum for a short time, you would be surprised on the wide ranging rigs people were pushing that game on.

It's ironic... Because once rumors of Neo/4k started to float around, people were claiming it was going to be some special-sauce 4k powerhouse.
Obviously anyone who had any technical understanding would understand that wasn't going to happen...
And then polaris dropped and people woke up to it a little.

Scorpio isn't going to be some 4k powerhouse, it will likely have games operating at 1440P/1600P/1800P and use frame reconstruction/upscaling to achieve 4k with an increase in fidelity.

Scorpio should get the higher quality Multiplats, that's a given as developers will likely need to cutback less on the graphics compared to porting to the Playstation 4 Pro.
Also anyone else annoyed at the name? Neo sounded so much cooler than the boring old "Pro". :P


Honestly I hope Microsoft and Nintendo can claw back some marketshare from Sony so that all three companies are on equal footing, that's good for the industry and good for the consumer.

So basically what you are saying is that... Microsoft is doomed regardless of what they do? And they should give up trying? Exit the console market and give complete control to Sony who might then become a monopoly and charge higher prices and stagnate tech? Good idea.

Sony has some serious brand power with Playstation and that isn't easily matched by being merely "good enough".

I doubt Scorpio will change the landscape though, but I am keen to watch and see how things play out, that's half the fun for us Enthusiasts, right? :P

Scorpio will likely have superior image quality regardless of the resolution.

But as has been proven multiple times in history, graphics power doesn't guarentee you to win a console generation, but hell it makes things nicer to look at though.

It's interesting to see if that truly is the case once Scorpio launches and if it had any impact on the PS4's sales as well.

Puma+ for instance would be a logical improvement over Jaguar.
But a low-powered Zen layout would be even better. (Although doubt it!)

Scorpio doesn't need to be cheaper, the Xbox One S will still be on the market for more price sensitive consumers/people who are poor/lower income earners.
Scorpio will be the Halo product that sets the bar for graphics.

And 4k Blu-Ray has proven not to add costs, many 4k Blu-Ray drives on PC are regular Blu-Ray drives that just needed a firmware update, it's ironic that Microsoft will have better Blu-ray support than Sony.

Scorpio will be able to take advantage of more graphics effects that would typically be reserved for the PC, the difference will be substantual, probably similar difference we got with the Xbox One and Playstation 4 (Both IMHO were underpowered to begin with.)

Relatively, yes the gap should be fairly similar (Percentage wise).
But as an Xbox owner and seeing PS4 games in action, the difference was pretty big and the difference got larger the bigger the panel you gamed on, both paled in comparison to the PC IMHO.

As for price etc'. There has been no pricing information released on Scorpio, people are just worried about the sky falling down, tech drops down in price pretty quickly, so don't be surprised if it's price competitive a year from now... It's also entirely possible that Scorpio ends up being cheaper to manufacture than the Playstation 4 Pro.

It's also interesting seeing Microsoft advertise the Xbox One S and watching how much they leverage the 4k advertising for that box and if it will translate to sales over the Christmas period.

Well your statement certainly didn't make it sound like that. "MS is already trying to prep everyone for a higher price with that talk about the GPU alone costing the same as the launch PS3". You're the making it sound like this is going to be a $600-$700 console. And do you honestly believe that a 1.5Tflop boost will cost $150 more like you just stated? The fact stands that Microsoft has said the console will be 6Tflops. Even if those specs were increased, do you honestly believe Microsoft would launch $150 more expensive than the PS Pro? I will bet you that if Microsoft keeps its current specs of 6tflops, it'll launch at no more than $399.

It'll also have access to VR while the XBO won't, and will very likely have exclusives.
The Scorpio is definitely a next gen system, the problem is that the PS4P is making it looks like it isn't.

I think MS should move up to 12GB to really push their advantage further. Gonna be hard for PS4 devs to make enough hoops to jump through to make up for 4GB less RAM. If PS4 could have 8GB in 2013, 12GB should be doable for the same price or less in 2017. 

Devs barely took advantage of PS4 even though it has nearly 50% more powerful gpu and ram bandwidth advantage. The only differences were resoution. 900P vs 1080P and 720P vs 900P.

They are simply going to have 2 profile one for current system and other for new consoles. Something like 900P for Xbone, 1080P PS4. People with HDTV but having new consoles - 1080P with no fps drop, aa, draw distance etc for PS4Pro and Xbone2. For 4K user it will be something like 1440P and 1800P upscalled to 2160. This is where I see the difference between the two. Tomb raider is having 3 profiles for PS4Pro 1080P unlocked, native 4K with 30fps and 1080Pmax settings at 30fps. This will be same for Xbone2. In 1080P I think both with easily perofrm. 4K is where Xbone2 will run little better. The main difference will be 1440P vs 1800P. Gfx will be same in 1080P mode.

Also if you look at the size and power consumption of PS4Pro it is obvious Xbone2 is going to big. I easily expect it to be 500$

I've asked you about this before, but i'm still confused as to why there's such a significant difference in your perception of the gap between the PS4 and X1, vs the Pro and Scorpio. Unknown variables could change this down the line (e.g. past it being 6tf, we know nothing about the Scorpio's GPU design), but as it currently stands the two comparisons seem very similar. I've rarely seen you express anything but apathy for the PS4's hardware advantage, and yet with the Scorpio you've consistently made the assumption it'll offer an advantage significantly larger (enough so for you to jump from apathy to praise). You never really properly addressed this before, so i guess i'll ask a different question: What kind of advantage would you consider "obvious"? Would you consider 1440p vs 4k enough (that being the same as 720p vs 1080p, ignoring diminishing returns)? Does it need to hit both a native 4k, and also offer major graphical improvements (assumably larger in most instance than what we're currently seeing between the Pro and maxed PC)? And i guess most importantly, if it doesn't offer want you want, and instead we end up with differences like 1800p vs 4k (the latter being 44% more), would you be disappointed with the Scorpio?

As i mentioned last times i asked you this stuff, i'm not in any respect trying to 'call you out'. I'm genuinely interested to know where your optimism comes from, and how that optimism would be realised in the real world. 

VR hasn't really caught on, it's uptake on PC has been left wanting, it's simply far to expensive for most people.

With that said, Phil Spencer has hinted at VR being a "thing" on Scorpio, Microsoft will likely partner up with another company for that push though.

16Gb would may waaay more sense due to how the memory controller would likely be laid out, but I think 8Gb would be the realistic target though.

To be fair, there is a big graphics difference between the Xbox One and Playstation 4 in first party titles, but we also haven't had an entire generation to look back on and compare things yet. :P

For Multi-Platforms things get a little muddier, but the Xbox One would often take a resolution and performance hit... And in many cases end up with inferior texturing, shadowing and little effects like reflections turned off... You can see the differences even in "light" games like Overwatch.
The resolution difference though becomes more pronounced the larger/closer you sit to the TV as well.

They usually just build a game for one platform and then slowly disable effects/resolution/take a framerate hit to match the platforms capabilities, it's something Frostbite has done all generation with the PC being the leed platform.
That is unlikely to change with Scorpio dropping either.

Anyway, resolution is only part of the story, you can see massive gains by having a game render at a higher resolution but still only display it on a 1080P panel.

As for Power and Size, I was an early adopter of the Original Xbox... I am also a high-end PC gamers, obviously those aren't issues for me. ;)

What do you mean disable affects ? If you look at PS3,360 and PS4, Xbone multiplats the only difference is the resolution and some games early on during PS3 lifecyle had different AA rest of the asset quality was pretty much same PS4Pro and Xbone2 will follow the same trend. That is why I said 1080P mode will be same. Above that 1200P vs 1440P or 1440P vs 1800P or so on will be the only differences. Ok may be there might be 1-2games having more grass density lol