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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft: Xbox Scorpio's power advantage over PS4 Pro 'will be obvious'

CGI-Quality said:
RolStoppable said:

It launches four years after the Xbox One, is significantly more powerful and, by the sounds of it, will not be an overclocked version of the Xbox One but rather feature a completely new chipset. So the only metric by which it is not next gen is PR speech.

I tend to agree, mostly. A bit more juice (perhaps a 7-8TF machine), and they should just call it the next gen Xbox. 

Honestly if I was Microsoft I would go big, aim abit higher than 6 teraflops (if your already going that high) give it abit more, and launch it as the Xbox Two.

Sure you can still say there are no more gens, and allow Xbox One to play games from Xbox Two (just at 720p instead of 4k).

Done, enjoy the early lead for kickstarting a new gen.



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Mafioso said:
"We had the ability to look at doing an interim console this year if we wanted to. We thought about that. But we didn't think we could deliver, with the silicon that's out there, a true 4K gaming six teraflop machine this year. So we decided to wait until we hit the real spec that people were asking for."-Phil Spencer

That right there tells me Scorpio uses no Polaris GPU. The Silicon that has yet to enter the market is Vega- which has a higher perf per watt/FinFET scalability.

Vega is AMD's architecture aimed to battle the 1070/1080...so that is the perf level to expect....especially taking DX12 into consideration.

That extra year means no settling for checkerbox upscale on nearly every title and more native 4K games. When you look at Gears Ultimate Edition/Gears 4 /Forza Apex profile around 4K you end up with a 980Ti GPU...and that's no coincidence. They are going to massage that perf level in their games.

You need to understand how AMD builds it's GPU's.

AMD will design a GPU in "Blocks" and will modify part or all of a block, then they assemble various amounts of those blocks to form various parts of the GPU.

It is why AMD can take any old Graphics Core Next part and update say... Just the video blocks and add support for stuff like HEVC whilst leaving everything else the same.
Or why Graphics Core Next 4.0 wasn't a complete top-to-bottom update over Graphics Core Next 3.0, only parts that needed modifying/updated were updated.

Vega is likely going to be using the same architectural "Blocks" as Polaris, they aren't going to be radically different from a low-level architectural point of view, there is going to be differences for sure, Vega will use more blocks and have HBM2 memory, but it will still be the same architecture as Polaris.

The question remains... For both Scorpio and Playstation 4 Pro... Is how those blocks are configured, what their clock speeds are and how many there are, and we will not know that untill more official information is released about the GPU configurations.

For example for the Playstation 4 Neo/Pro/4k/Cats to hit it's claimed 4.2 Teraflop Target it could have 2304 shaders @ 900mhz or 2048 shaders @ 1033mhz.
Whilst the Scorpio would likely use 3584 Shaders @ 850mhz or 4096 @ 733mhz. - Or heck hows about 2304 shaders @ 1300mhz? Or 2048 shaders @ 1466mhz?
Although wider hardware with more conservative clocks at 16nm is likely the go.
Can't forget that a few extra CU's would be thrown in for die-harvesting practices to bolster yield too.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

AbbathTheGrim said:
Mr Puggsly said:

See how this works?

See what I have always said since the beginning?

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=203685

If people dont mind switching brands its evident exclusives arent the primary concern.

I know people who switched brands this gen and didnt bother with many if any exclusives.



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I've heard $450, $500and even $600. Before this thing comes out it'll be $1000 😂.

If it's $500 or whatever you have at least 12 months to save. What's the problem?



So, they will release a console more expensive, with less games, with a smaller existing userbase, and a year late at least, and they're not worried because it will be more powerful?

Like when the OG XBox One came out, they weren't worried about the price difference thanks to Kinect?



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Shadow1980 said:

Assuming it's still going to have a 6 TFLOP GPU, that means the relative GPU power gap between the Scorpio and PS4 Pro is about the same as the relative GPU power gap between the PS4 and XBO. This likely won't make much of a difference for third-party games. First-party Xbox games will probably look a bit better than first-party PS4 games, but not massively. And if you don't have a 4K TV or plan on getting VR, there might not be much tangible benefit besides 1080p60 being a more common standard. Neither the Pro nor the Scorpio are a generational leap. It's obvious that they exist almost purely to take advantage of 4K, HDR, and VR, but are otherwise the same current-gen platforms we've had for the past 3 years.

EDIT: And on a further note, power has never determined the sales leader. The PS4 is literally the first time the most powerful console in a generation was also the sales leader. The Master System, Neo Geo, N64, Xbox, and PS3 all failed to be the #1 console of their respective generations. The PS4 is winning for reasons that have nothing to do with it being more powerful, and the Scorpio won't suddenly dominate just because it's more powerful, either. Consoles succeed on the merits of things like pricing, games, and marketing.

That extra power is going to allow alot of extra polish and/or performance.

For example 4K games on PS4 seem to be aiming for 30 fps. That extra power of Scorpio could bring that to 60 fps. That alone would be pretty significant. Even 1080p titles pushing PS4 Pro's specs could be 30 fps. Thats another scenario where Scorpio could push 60 fps.

So in my opinion, MS should push the performance edge on 60 when they can. Thats worth more than beating PS4 on pixel count.



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Faelco said:
So, they will release a console more expensive, with less games, with a smaller existing userbase, and a year late at least, and they're not worried because it will be more powerful?

Like when the OG XBox One came out, they weren't worried about the price difference thanks to Kinect?

We havent heard a price. I'm predicting it ill be $400 and OG X1 will drop to $250-279.

MS isnt aiming to beat PS4 in sales, that war is lost. But if they can keep their sales steady then they are in a good place. Its still a relevant console that moves a lot of software albeit less popular.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

TallSilhouette said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
The gap should be obvious. The Pro merely upgraded an already weak CPU. For all the talk Sony did about 4k, the games aren't native 4k, and it doesn't even play UHD discs.

Plus with Sony limiting what devs can do for Pro owners, I don't see the point in buying it. MP games can't run better on Pro because it would be bad for communities? Uh, ever hear of PC gaming?

You make it sound like Scorpio isn't doing the same thing just with more gpu and ram. MS has not boasted about its cpu (possibly just the old one upclocked like the PS4P) and by all current reports Scorpio will have the same relationship (and limitations) with XBO as Pro does with the PS4.

I haven't seen anything about MS forcing devs into parity between versions on MP games with Scorpio. Would be equally disappointed if that's the case. Link? However you wanna excuse it, Scorpio is a much larger upgrade :)

 



Shadow1980 said:

Assuming it's still going to have a 6 TFLOP GPU, that means the relative GPU power gap between the Scorpio and PS4 Pro is about the same as the relative GPU power gap between the PS4 and XBO. This likely won't make much of a difference for third-party games. First-party Xbox games will probably look a bit better than first-party PS4 games, but not massively. And if you don't have a 4K TV or plan on getting VR, there might not be much tangible benefit besides 1080p60 being a more common standard. Neither the Pro nor the Scorpio are a generational leap. It's obvious that they exist almost purely to take advantage of 4K, HDR, and VR, but are otherwise the same current-gen platforms we've had for the past 3 years.

EDIT: And on a further note, power has never determined the sales leader. The PS4 is literally the first time the most powerful console in a generation was also the sales leader. The Master System, Neo Geo, N64, Xbox, and PS3 all failed to be the #1 console of their respective generations. The PS4 is winning for reasons that have nothing to do with it being more powerful, and the Scorpio won't suddenly dominate just because it's more powerful, either. Consoles succeed on the merits of things like pricing, games, and marketing.

Power does dictate who gets the best multiplats though. 

Sales in a way is irrelevant to MS because they already have major every third party supporting them, so it's not as if they would get more games if they sold more, so as consumer what does that even matter to you?

And I would say Super NES won over the Genesis in part because it was more powerful, the rest of those consoles released that gen (Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Neo Geo) were never seriously intending to compete for the mass market. 

IMO, I think MS has rightly recoginized that the XBox brand must have the best 3rd party multiplats. That has been a hall mark of the brand since the first XBox, and XBox One is really the first time they've done the less powerful thing and it hasn't worked for them. 

Unlike Nintendo, MS is trying to directly ape the Playstation model, and that only works if they're offering something better than the Playstation. If they're offering something that's not any better, then what's the point of even having such a console? The XBox by default needs to be better than the Playstation where ever it can be, and hardware is one area MS can control. 



Soundwave said:
Azuren said:

He doesn't need to see the future to tell you that MS is going to lose this generation by a wide margin. It's nearly 2:1, and Sony now has the advantage of entering the holidays with a 4K option while Microsoft struggles to get XB1S off the shelves after the hype died in a week.

No one knows for certain what will happen in the industry going forward, for all we know NX could be the best selling system two years from now. 

MS is getting much more competetive and making a lot more sound moves, there's no gauruntee Sony can just coast on MS' mistakes from 4 years ago forever. 

To be honest I don't really even give a shit. The whole point of this system selling dick waving is to have developer support, is it not? Well MS already gets pretty much all the developer support anyway, and with Scorpio because they have the better hardware they will resume getting the best multiplats in many cases just like XBox did over the PS2. 

The days when Sony could money hat like Grand Theft Auto are long since gone. 

So to me as a user, I couldn't care less, it's not like MS or Sony are giving me any of their profits. If I do choose Scorpio, I'm going to be getting all the big third party games and getting them with the best graphics. 



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