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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - MCV: NX Graphics In Between A PS3 And PS4

Soundwave said:

I will say this though If they can run Android apps I think they can. That adds huge value to a device and prices it favorably compared to many mid/high-end tablets, a 16GB iPad Mini for instance is $400 alone. 

Besides, y'know lets actually look at this ...

The Wii + DS cost most people $400-$420 combined ($250 for the Wii + $150-$170 for the DS)

The Wii U + 3DS is $500 for the standard models most people buy, $600 if you bought both at launch. 

So how is the NX at $250 or even $300, that basically does the same as the DS/3DS + Wii/Wii U in one box overpriced?

People need to get over the 3DS launch IMO ... it was an extremely mediocre launch with an extremely crappy hardware and an unwhelming gimmick of a 3D screen that gave half the people that played it a headache. 

The PSP sold very well at $250, five years prior no less, in fact it was outselling the DS for a good while there until Nintendo started to hit pay dirt with the expanded audience stuff like Brain Training and Nintendogs. 

Even if it can Android apps technically... I really doubt that control freak Nintendo will allow the Google Play Store or even sideloading. So they will have a few Android apps/games in their own eShop at best... probably overpriced compared to the other app stores.

Most people also alredy have Android devices which can run these game, so it wouldn't be a unique selling point. Many of these people will complain if they have to buy Android apps/games they already bought again to get a NX-compatible version.

We'll have to wait and see how much the NX device costs and which other devices it can fully replace. You are way too optimistic IMHO. I' be glad if all that happened, but better being positively surprised after having low to medium expectations than being disappointed because the product is "only" good instead of fantastic.



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Soundwave said:
Roketan said:

Tons of japanese support will not get the system anywhere worldwide. Also, people were saying the same with WiiU. That it will receive tons of third party support since it's on par with PS3 and we all know what happened. Also, the FF fanbase is on Playstation, the rest will buy the Xbone/PC version. Why anyone would wait for an inferior port (since the system will not be as powerful as PS4)? And there is no way Square Enix will develop FF16 for an inferior system that will require extra work to make it run on low hardware with PS4Neo/XBone Scorpio/PC around. Square Enix support doesn't mean anything if it comes only to ports or games like Crystal Chronicles. Same applies to KOEI who released many ports on WiiU but none of their new games.

Japan loves to play on the go, the 3DS has sold more than the PS3 and PS4 combined and then some, lets not forget that. 

 

You are comparing apples with oranges. Handheld with home consoles. Why don't you compare 3DS with smartphones which is the main reason for the huge decline of 3DS compared to DS?



Conina said:
Soundwave said:

I will say this though If they can run Android apps I think they can. That adds huge value to a device and prices it favorably compared to many mid/high-end tablets, a 16GB iPad Mini for instance is $400 alone. 

Besides, y'know lets actually look at this ...

The Wii + DS cost most people $400-$420 combined ($250 for the Wii + $150-$170 for the DS)

The Wii U + 3DS is $500 for the standard models most people buy, $600 if you bought both at launch. 

So how is the NX at $250 or even $300, that basically does the same as the DS/3DS + Wii/Wii U in one box overpriced?

People need to get over the 3DS launch IMO ... it was an extremely mediocre launch with an extremely crappy hardware and an unwhelming gimmick of a 3D screen that gave half the people that played it a headache. 

The PSP sold very well at $250, five years prior no less, in fact it was outselling the DS for a good while there until Nintendo started to hit pay dirt with the expanded audience stuff like Brain Training and Nintendogs. 

Even if it can Android apps technically... I really doubt that control freak Nintendo will allow the Google Play Store or even sideloading. So they will have a few Android apps/games in their own eShop at best... probably overpriced compared to the other app stores.

Most people also alredy have Android devices which can run these game, so it wouldn't be a unique selling point. Many of these people will complain if they have to buy Android apps/games they already bought again to get a NX-compatible version.

We'll have to wait and see how much the NX device costs and which other devices it can fully replace. You are way too optimistic IMHO. I' be glad if all that happened, but better being positively surprised after having low to medium expectations than being disappointed because the product is "only" good instead of fantastic.

No they won't allow the Google Play Store, but there's no reason why they couldn't have hundreds of the most popular apps. 

There were 250 million or so tablets sold last year, if Nintendo can get even 7-10 million of that per year, I think they would be quite happy. This isn't about beating Apple or being no.1 in this sector, it's about getting a piece of the pie and boosting your yearly shipments. 

The product could suck that's all on Nintendo's execution as always. 



I hate reading the discussion about the NX. The know-it-alls, the detractors, the uberfans, the haters keep chiming in and everyone knows for sure what we are getting. And yet, I cant stop reading about it. For the love of my mental health I hope Nintendo reveals it sooner rather than later.

There's so much crow to be eaten everywhere and I cant wait for it to happen no matter the outcome.



I'm guessing it would be closer to PS4 than PS3 if Breath of the Wild is playable on NX and will see enhanced visuals compared to Wii U as said by Nintendo.



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GhaudePhaede010 said:
Nem said:

Maybe its a no brainer for you, but it holds no logic. Bundling everything while keeping the price down? That is a physical impossibility given Nintendo admits that they won't sell systems at a loss anymore.

If they can have a system that is a portable with a docking station then it makes sense to offer the docking station as an option to reduce the price.

Though i do think Nintendo would just try to shove stuff down our throats like Microsoft tried to. We will see. But i don't see any chance for what can be essentially an overpriced portable wich can connect to the TV. Quite honestly, that is partially what the Vita TV is and it was a disaster.

 

The real point here is: Portables above 250€/$ won't fly. Wether you can connect them to the TV or not.

It was not a mistake to respect you so much after my previous reading error. Most of what you said makes sense and I can respect even if I do not necessarily agree with you. With that said, if you are saying that it is not cheaper to keep everything in one box and that it is not smarter to have what could be your potential system selling capability packaged with the console, then as I said before, stay away from business. Shipping on two separate products can be a slippery slope that in the end, consumers would have to pay. There is no reason a connector for the television would need to be sold separately other than greed and confusion. I think Nintendo needs to keep this thing all together because it will make the most sense to the most people that way. If they just want a hand held, they got one, but if they want to hook it up to their television, for no additional (precieved) cost or (actual) inconvenience, they have that ability as well. It really is that simple.

At least you understand if what is rumored is true that this is a portable that can be connected to a television and not a home console. I will agree that if the price is too high, it will not work. However, what is being presented is not modern technology and relatively inexpensive. I do think they can sell it at the price you mentioned but they may break even as opposed to making profit. Of course, now we are speculating on something else entirely. Technically, it would not be sold at a loss but if they intended profit, they may not like that road and may try for 279 or 300. I refuse to pay above 300 for what the rumors have stated. But if it turns out to be within the 250-300 range, I will squirm but pay for it. Not to say everyone else would, however. I believe 250 is that magic number.

As I stated before, my daughter can link her iphone to our television with a cable that cost me like ten dollars. If Nintendo thinks they can get away with selling the adapter shell for much of anything at all, that would be silly. Fans may pick it up but like Vita with the overpriced memory cards, that could be an undoing for some people. If what is rumored is true then Nintendo may as well just package it in because this shell is basically the same thing as that iphone cable and to think it should cost the consumer anything more on the final price tag would be unacceptable.

What is the difference between a portale that can connect to the tv, and a console that can be taken outside and be used as a portable device?
What is the differencie between 2 x 3     and   3 x 2 ??



Soundwave said:
JustBeingReal said:

See reply in bold.

Look at the NPD chart every month, where are the family games every month? *crickets*. How many family games are even available on the XB1 or PS4?

Why did you single out the American charts? They do not represent the world.

FYI Lego Star Wars and Mindcraft are on that chart, but globally VG Chartz is about as close as we get to accurate worldwide charts and looking at the most recent update there were fewer shooters than other kinds of games, since limted family games aren't selling, maybe that should tell you something, even though Nintendo may have those (as you insist, I don't see many), they clearly aren't moving Nintendo consoles in the way they used to.

People already have a Playstation 4 for the games you want, so buy a Playstation 4. Like what's the problem?

Seriously, that's your argument? For one thing you don't know me or exactly what my tastes are when it comes to gaming. Nintendo has a better chance against dedicated gaming devices, than phones or tablets that people use for their media needs and happen to use them to game on the side.

It's an easier sell for Nintendo to target the dedicated gaming market, than the casual one and the potential for sales is still huge.

Basically is that Nintendo for some odd reason shouldn't be trying to sell their platform to me, they should tbh be trying to sell their system, with their games to anyone that potentially wants a dedicated gaming device.

I can't take my PS4 with me on the go, so for me if I want something to play decent games on the go, natively then I have nothing and that's a market that Nintendo could certainly tap into.

Nintendo is never going to fill that role, they are not that type of company and never will be. They make their style of games and their style of games are not what's selling home consoles anymore. It sucks but it is what it is, Nintendo is better off focusing on a market that is far more friendly to their style of gaming.

They used to be the type of company that made their games based on market need, not based on their own misguided assumptions based around a customer that grew up. Sure they have a small, but seemingly loyal faithful, but even those gamers are diminishing as is evidenced by the undeniable fact of Nintendo's reducing hardware sales.

Nintendo are better off expanding their portfolio, they're better off expanding into new areas to cater to more people, otherwise they will die, unless they end up becoming a 3rd party publisher and use their studios to put their games on other platform, but still they'd be wise to make a more diverse line-up of titles.

"Cater to the 3rd party market" basically means make violent Western action games. And that's never, ever, ever going to be Nintendo's M.O., nor does it need to be since 103939048309438 other companies already serve that role. 

No it doesn't, this is your assumption, what it really means is make a wide range of games that appeal to the west and that can include games like The Witcher, Uncharted, etc.

BTW Mario can be seen as violent (he kills goombas by flattening them, amongst other attacks), MK has street rage in it, pokemon is about inprisoning wild magical creatures against their will. Basically the majority of Nintendo games have some kind of violent feature to their gameplay.

There's already *four* (4!!!!) consoles that are trying to cater to this same market in a year's time. No one is asking for five but a very small niche group of people, Nintendo would have no chance. The direction of the NX even if it pisses off people who want basically the same thing x5 is IMO smart. They have no chance against 4 other consoles relying predominantly on family friend franchises. Maybe if it was 1995, but that it ain't. 

No there are 2, just because there are altered versions of them doesn't mean they count as new platforms, XBox Scorpio will play XB1 games, Neo will play PS4 games and the level of sales potential for software from the 3rd party market is what drives dedicated gaming hardware sales up, Nintendo are missing out on this.

NX could be the device that allows you to play those games natively on the go and Nintendo needs the sales of 3rd party software, they're missing out on huge profit potential.

Focus your resources on the more Nintendo friendly portable market, if you can sell 50-60 million NXes and reap monster profits on mobile games ... that's more than fine for Nintendo. 

It's never going to happen, it's clear that in both console and handheld markets Nintendo has diminished severely, their market is the dedicated gaming one, trying to compete with devices that people already have in their lives and happen to play free games or cheap games on isn't really going to be a sell for these people.

If 50 to 60 install base is all you're gunning for then you're going to fall short, if your system lacks what the people who are likely to buy a dedicated gaming platform want, then you're not going to sell to anyone, besides the few that may happen to still like Nintendo systems and happen to want this one because it's the newest version.

The mobile market isn't really up for grabs, not unless Nintendo actually develops phone tech or maybe gives the handheld/tablet away for free alongside existing phones, to then get people to maybe buy games, but when Nintendo will likely want decent amounts of cash per game that's likely not going to go down well with the market.

See reply in bold.



Incredibly strong for a portable, incredibly meh for a 8.5th or 9th gen home console.
But the target isn't power home console users, and the concept, although not totally new or original, could end up being its smoothest implemetation so far and enjoy more success than 3DS and Wii U combined, that should be the minimum ideal goal for Ninty (while matching 3DS alone should be the minimum acceptable).



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Mbolibombo said:
I hate reading the discussion about the NX. The know-it-alls, the detractors, the uberfans, the haters keep chiming in and everyone knows for sure what we are getting. And yet, I cant stop reading about it. For the love of my mental health I hope Nintendo reveals it sooner rather than later.

There's so much crow to be eaten everywhere and I cant wait for it to happen no matter the outcome.

there will be no crow. THe people who are wrong will just disappear and reappear at the start of the next gen. I notice that when so many people were wrong about Wii U and now they are returning.



JustBeingReal said:
Soundwave said:

Look at the NPD chart every month, where are the family games every month? *crickets*. How many family games are even available on the XB1 or PS4?

Why did you single out the American charts? They do not represent the world.

FYI Lego Star Wars and Mindcraft are on that chart, but globally VG Chartz is about as close as we get to accurate worldwide charts and looking at the most recent update there were fewer shooters than other kinds of games, since limted family games aren't selling, maybe that should tell you something, even though Nintendo may have those (as you insist, I don't see many), they clearly aren't moving Nintendo consoles in the way they used to.

People already have a Playstation 4 for the games you want, so buy a Playstation 4. Like what's the problem?

Seriously, that's your argument? For one thing you don't know me or exactly what my tastes are when it comes to gaming. Nintendo has a better chance against dedicated gaming devices, than phones or tablets that people use for their media needs and happen to use them to game on the side.

It's an easier sell for Nintendo to target the dedicated gaming market, than the casual one and the potential for sales is still huge.

Basically is that Nintendo for some odd reason shouldn't be trying to sell their platform to me, they should tbh be trying to sell their system, with their games to anyone that potentially wants a dedicated gaming device.

I can't take my PS4 with me on the go, so for me if I want something to play decent games on the go, natively then I have nothing and that's a market that Nintendo could certainly tap into.

Nintendo is never going to fill that role, they are not that type of company and never will be. They make their style of games and their style of games are not what's selling home consoles anymore. It sucks but it is what it is, Nintendo is better off focusing on a market that is far more friendly to their style of gaming.

They used to be the type of company that made their games based on market need, not based on their own misguided assumptions based around a customer that grew up. Sure they have a small, but seemingly loyal faithful, but even those gamers are diminishing as is evidenced by the undeniable fact of Nintendo's reducing hardware sales.

Nintendo are better off expanding their portfolio, they're better off expanding into new areas to cater to more people, otherwise they will die, unless they end up becoming a 3rd party publisher and use their studios to put their games on other platform, but still they'd be wise to make a more diverse line-up of titles.

"Cater to the 3rd party market" basically means make violent Western action games. And that's never, ever, ever going to be Nintendo's M.O., nor does it need to be since 103939048309438 other companies already serve that role. 

No it doesn't, this is your assumption, what it really means is make a wide range of games that appeal to the west and that can include games like The Witcher, Uncharted, etc.

BTW Mario can be seen as violent (he kills goombas by flattening them, amongst other attacks), MK has street rage in it, pokemon is about inprisoning wild magical creatures against their will. Basically the majority of Nintendo games have some kind of violent feature to their gameplay.

There's already *four* (4!!!!) consoles that are trying to cater to this same market in a year's time. No one is asking for five but a very small niche group of people, Nintendo would have no chance. The direction of the NX even if it pisses off people who want basically the same thing x5 is IMO smart. They have no chance against 4 other consoles relying predominantly on family friend franchises. Maybe if it was 1995, but that it ain't. 

No there are 2, just because there are altered versions of them doesn't mean they count as new platforms, XBox Scorpio will play XB1 games, Neo will play PS4 games and the level of sales potential for software from the 3rd party market is what drives dedicated gaming hardware sales up, Nintendo are missing out on this.

NX could be the device that allows you to play those games natively on the go and Nintendo needs the sales of 3rd party software, they're missing out on huge profit potential.

Focus your resources on the more Nintendo friendly portable market, if you can sell 50-60 million NXes and reap monster profits on mobile games ... that's more than fine for Nintendo. 

It's never going to happen, it's clear that in both console and handheld markets Nintendo has diminished severely, their market is the dedicated gaming one, trying to compete with devices that people already have in their lives and happen to play free games or cheap games on isn't really going to be a sell for these people.

If 50 to 60 install base is all you're gunning for then you're going to fall short, if your system lacks what the people who are likely to buy a dedicated gaming platform want, then you're not going to sell to anyone, besides the few that may happen to still like Nintendo systems and happen to want this one because it's the newest version.

The mobile market isn't really up for grabs, not unless Nintendo actually develops phone tech or maybe gives the handheld/tablet away for free alongside existing phones, to then get people to maybe buy games, but when Nintendo will likely want decent amounts of cash per game that's likely not going to go down well with the market.

See reply in bold.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the vanilla Nintendo box theory, that somehow a "regular" Nintendo console would be a huge success at this stage of the game. Developers would prioritize all of XB1, Scorpio, PSNeo, PS4, all these systems have different GPUs, so I don't see them as the same system and 3/4 of them would have large headstarts over the NX. It would be the GameCube all over again if Nintendo tried to compete head on in these conditions, quite possibly worse, at least with the GameCube, MS was also starting at 0 and Sony only had a 18 million unit lead or so and there was no PS2 Neo. 

Nintendo doesn't need to dominate the mobile market. Last year there were 250 million tablets sold worldwide, if Nintendo could add even 5 million of those customers to their yearly handheld sales (lets assume a decline of only 7-8 million units/year from that crowd, waaaaaaay down from the 30 million/year DS hey day), that would bring them back up to 13-14 million portable shipments per year, which is a fairly healthy number. 

And those are pretty modest estimates, that would be Nintendo getting a 0.02% market share of tablets sold with an Android app enabled NX. I'm hardly suggesting they go head on with Apple or something. With that extra 5 million/year you have a platform that goes from 35-40 million units after 5 years to 65-70 million instead.