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Forums - Sports Discussion - Why does Messi needs to win a major tournament in order to be compared to Pele and Maradona?

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LOL, Messi just quit ("retired") his national team after choking away the finals with a missed penalty. I think the debate is settled, he'll never be as great as Maradona was.



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4 finals losses. Messi is the lebron james of soccer, an all time great talent that falls just short of the the greatest of all time clutch players in their sports, MJ and Maradona



CGcarmineCG said:

Seriously you said the Maradona's Argentina was stronger than the actual Argentina? Higuain is one of the best offensive player in the world, currently maybe is the best beside Lewandowski, same Di Maria, Aguero and the same Messi. They choose to NOT convocate Dybala and Icardi, that could easily be the first pick in every national team, or at least the most, depending on the formation. Mascherano and Banega are other two top player, even Lamela and Lavezzi.

The truth is that in the most important match with the Argentina Messi flopped. Remember the last year's final? The World cup's final? Maradona alone won the world cup, Messi, with other of best players in the world can't win nothing outside Barcellona.

While I agree that Pelé had a better team, he won 3 damn world cups, with the 58/62 team and with a new one in 1970. Maradona's team was weaker than Messi's Argentina. Right now they have one of the best national teams in the world and cannot accomplish anything with it.

Even if he is a genius, Messi always underdelivered in the national team. He never had a decent sequence of good matches. It's always predictable, easy to be nulified by the opposite team's defense.

Football is a collective sport, but people forget that top players like Messi, C Ronald, Neymar and such are feared. The other team normally will use 2 dedicated players to defend against them and the rest of the defense is really handicaped.

As I said earlier, he will never be an all-time great until he wons the World Cup. Even then, he isn't a Pelé (his achievements are dwarfed by this guy) or Maradona (same play style, but El Pibe de Oro was one level above) and never will be.



Just proves how silly the logic is, if Argentina won the penalties, Messi would've somehow became a better player than he already is.

And why are you guys now saying the debate is just now settled? Your minds were made up before the finale anyway.

Glad he is retired, the Portuguese journalism were never as harsh with CR like the Argentinians are with Messi. They treat him with respect despite the lack of trophies. Now Messi can be among a team and a crowd that appreciate what he's done for them.

10 years a star, shining bright and still more to give, you can't really say that about any other player.



torok said:
CGcarmineCG said:

Seriously you said the Maradona's Argentina was stronger than the actual Argentina? Higuain is one of the best offensive player in the world, currently maybe is the best beside Lewandowski, same Di Maria, Aguero and the same Messi. They choose to NOT convocate Dybala and Icardi, that could easily be the first pick in every national team, or at least the most, depending on the formation. Mascherano and Banega are other two top player, even Lamela and Lavezzi.

The truth is that in the most important match with the Argentina Messi flopped. Remember the last year's final? The World cup's final? Maradona alone won the world cup, Messi, with other of best players in the world can't win nothing outside Barcellona.

While I agree that Pelé had a better team, he won 3 damn world cups, with the 58/62 team and with a new one in 1970. Maradona's team was weaker than Messi's Argentina. Right now they have one of the best national teams in the world and cannot accomplish anything with it.

Even if he is a genius, Messi always underdelivered in the national team. He never had a decent sequence of good matches. It's always predictable, easy to be nulified by the opposite team's defense.

Football is a collective sport, but people forget that top players like Messi, C Ronald, Neymar and such are feared. The other team normally will use 2 dedicated players to defend against them and the rest of the defense is really handicaped.

As I said earlier, he will never be an all-time great until he wons the World Cup. Even then, he isn't a Pelé (his achievements are dwarfed by this guy) or Maradona (same play style, but El Pibe de Oro was one level above) and never will be.

Spot on.People making excuses about this team not be great,hahaha.This team was hell of a lot more talented than the Maradona's world cup team.

 

And yes mind was made up he will never be the greatest with no world cups,which is the pinnacle of football.It's funny how some people say Pele never left Brazil(he was not allowed to,he is a national treasure)yet everything Messi did was in one league with one team.

 

I said it before I will say it again,he is a choker along with his teammates,third final running.Now he goes and quit,while his team is struggling to qualify for the world cup.Yup what a great.



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I just love how people say Pele won 3 world cup while coming from the bench for the first one, barely play in the second one and was only a starter from start to finish in 1970. Just keep repeating what you hear and do not make any research on your own....



REDZONE said:
torok said:

While I agree that Pelé had a better team, he won 3 damn world cups, with the 58/62 team and with a new one in 1970. Maradona's team was weaker than Messi's Argentina. Right now they have one of the best national teams in the world and cannot accomplish anything with it.

Even if he is a genius, Messi always underdelivered in the national team. He never had a decent sequence of good matches. It's always predictable, easy to be nulified by the opposite team's defense.

Football is a collective sport, but people forget that top players like Messi, C Ronald, Neymar and such are feared. The other team normally will use 2 dedicated players to defend against them and the rest of the defense is really handicaped.

As I said earlier, he will never be an all-time great until he wons the World Cup. Even then, he isn't a Pelé (his achievements are dwarfed by this guy) or Maradona (same play style, but El Pibe de Oro was one level above) and never will be.

Spot on.People making excuses about this team not be great,hahaha.This team was hell of a lot more talented than the Maradona's world cup team.

 

And yes mind was made up he will never be the greatest with no world cups,which is the pinnacle of football.It's funny how some people say Pele never left Brazil(he was not allowed to,he is a national treasure)yet everything Messi did was in one league with one team.

 

I said it before I will say it again,he is a choker along with his teammates,third final running.Now he goes and quit,while his team is struggling to qualify for the world cup.Yup what a great.

I really don't understand you guys, to win an international Cup, you have to have a TEAM. Messi ended Copa America with 5 goals, 4 assists and a lot of great performances.

Chile is a way better team than Argentina. You got it? A team, a block that defends and attacks as a single unit, pressures the opponent away from their box and can play comfortably off-ball. Team is not about single units but the whole. That's what this Argentina team doesn't have the heart to do.

Di Maria was absent, Higuain was as thriftless as Aguero in front of goal, the midfield was locked by Chile because they had 3 defensive midfielders and who had to come from the wing to the middle to coordinate the attacking efforts? Messi.

Learn the definition of choke, Messi was fouled almost everytime he lead the attack, he assisted with his freeckiks and got players conditioned with cards they were receiving for stopping him with fouls. He didn't dissapear from the game, Chile is not a fussball team.



LurkerJ said:
Just proves how silly the logic is, if Argentina won the penalties, Messi would've somehow became a better player than he already is.

And why are you guys now saying the debate is just now settled? Your minds were made up before the finale anyway.

Glad he is retired, the Portuguese journalism were never as harsh with CR like the Argentinians are with Messi. They treat him with respect despite the lack of trophies. Now Messi can be among a team and a crowd that appreciate what he's done for them.

10 years a star, shining bright and still more to give, you can't really say that about any other player.

Yeah, not choking on the biggest stages of the world makes you better than choking.



contestgamer said:
LurkerJ said:
Just proves how silly the logic is, if Argentina won the penalties, Messi would've somehow became a better player than he already is.

And why are you guys now saying the debate is just now settled? Your minds were made up before the finale anyway.

Glad he is retired, the Portuguese journalism were never as harsh with CR like the Argentinians are with Messi. They treat him with respect despite the lack of trophies. Now Messi can be among a team and a crowd that appreciate what he's done for them.

10 years a star, shining bright and still more to give, you can't really say that about any other player.

Yeah, not choking on the biggest stages of the world makes you better than choking.

What does it mean to choke exactly?



REDZONE said:

Spot on.People making excuses about this team not be great,hahaha.This team was hell of a lot more talented than the Maradona's world cup team.

And yes mind was made up he will never be the greatest with no world cups,which is the pinnacle of football.It's funny how some people say Pele never left Brazil(he was not allowed to,he is a national treasure)yet everything Messi did was in one league with one team.

I said it before I will say it again,he is a choker along with his teammates,third final running.Now he goes and quit,while his team is struggling to qualify for the world cup.Yup what a great.

He is a great player. One of the best. But it isn't on the top of the list. No world cups, can't be the greatest of all-time, specially because the guys considered for that position have one or more.

However, I recognize that Argentina suffers a similar (albeit in a waaaay lighter manner) problem than Brazil. Outdated teams with outdated tactics. They have historically a huge opposition against hiring foreign coachs (more in Brazil), but right now that's what they need.

I also don't think he is retired. Is more a bit of frustration and the heat of the loss. He will play the next cup.

LurkerJ said:
Just proves how silly the logic is, if Argentina won the penalties, Messi would've somehow became a better player than he already is.

And why are you guys now saying the debate is just now settled? Your minds were made up before the finale anyway.

Glad he is retired, the Portuguese journalism were never as harsh with CR like the Argentinians are with Messi. They treat him with respect despite the lack of trophies. Now Messi can be among a team and a crowd that appreciate what he's done for them.

10 years a star, shining bright and still more to give, you can't really say that about any other player.

I don't think that a Copa América would do much for him. He is questioned by lacking a World Cup on his résumé. That's it. Ronaldo also gets a free pass because Portugal has less tradition. Argentina won 2 WC and their team is one of the most respected worldwide. However, they don't do it since 1986. Messi was the next Maradona that was suposed to bring Argentina back to the top and he is falling way short of this. It's a superb team, a great generation leaded by the best player in the world and they simply can't win the cup.

As a brazilian, I can understand why the argentinian are so harsh with them. We won't get particularly happy with a Copa América. It's World Cup or nothing. We had the 1986 national team, regarded as the best ever, and a lot of those players were harshly questioned because they didn't won the cup, even if they were absolutely superb players.

Ronaldo lead a team that doesn't have this responsibility because they never won a WC. If he does, he will be a national hero, of course, but that isn't an obligation. He also has a way weaker team to work with so people.