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Forums - Sports Discussion - Why does Messi needs to win a major tournament in order to be compared to Pele and Maradona?

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He will never be as great as Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.



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contestgamer said:
Goatseye said:

How did they get to finals? They just teleported themselves there? The other games don't matter?

Argentina is not Messi, it takes more than one player to make a team.

You cant be the GOAT and wet the bed every time it matters most. You need to be a closer. Messi is simply not. That's what keeps him from the top of that list - he wets the bed when it's time to deliver the trophy.

No, it's because clubs have gotten better at stopping individuals from wrecking a team. Messi cannot dribble 11 men everygame and score or assist. 

Chile is a super compact team, every time Messi scaped one man they fouled him.

My goodness does anyone watch full games here? It looks like its just highlights. Messi as a winger, had to pick up the tab as an attacking midfielder to get Argentina going because they had 3 defensive midefielders playing.



BraLoD said:
Goatseye said:

As individual player no ones touches Messi

You should look for Ronaldinho Gaucho moments if you want to see some of the highest quality football ever played.
At his peak he was the most untouchable player football has seem.

His peak potential didn't last long though. 

Messi has been operating at peak potential for 10 years now.

He is a bit slower but he got better at play-making and free-kicks. Still sucks major balls with penalties XD



LurkerJ said:
BraLoD said:

You should look for Ronaldinho Gaucho moments if you want to see some of the highest quality football ever played.
At his peak he was the most untouchable player football has seem.

His peak potential didn't last long though. 

Messi has been operating at peak potential for 10 years now.

He is a bit slower but he got better at play-making and free-kicks. Still sucks major balls with penalties XD

Yeah, Ronaldinho highest quality playing didn't went for too long, sadly, even as he kept really good for a good while.
It was just beautiful to see, I'm sure a lot of people started to like football just because what they saw Ronaldinho do, it was magical, even his opponents crowd couldn't do but cheer for him, pretty much like Pelé did, everyone would just be happy because of the talent show they were watching.



Goatseye said:
BraLoD said:

You should look for Ronaldinho Gaucho moments if you want to see some of the highest quality football ever played.
At his peak he was the most untouchable player football has seem.

Then show me Ronaldinho's long range pass capabilities and goal scoring ability.

Ronaldinho is his prime was the best player to touch a football dribbling wise and scored some absolute crackers.His ball control was second to none.



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Neodegenerate said:
Ka-pi96 said:

But why only international tournaments then? Messi's club competition record beats both Pele/Maradona.

The biggest and baddest prize of them all?  No one is calling a former XFL or USFL player the best American football player of all time.  Either that or stubborn people who refuse to believe anyone can surpass their heroes.  Hell, he can win the current tourney and there will still be people complaining that he has yet to win a World Cup so it doesn't count until he does.

RolStoppable said:

Plus the obvious catch that for an NFL player the only big title to win is the NFL itself. Real football is more complex.

I wouldn't say soccerfootball is more complex from a title perspective.  World Cup is your biggest and baddest.  That's the ultimate prize right there.  Harder and more noteworthy?  Absolutely.  More complex?  Not for a commonplace fan looking for someone to win on the grandest stage of them all.

 

World cup have traditionally been biggest and baddest only for non-European teams, as the European Championships have been much harder to qualify in the first place - which is why some people value EC higher. Granted, it's debatable if the one or two American top teams make up for the rest.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Neodegenerate said:

The biggest and baddest prize of them all?  No one is calling a former XFL or USFL player the best American football player of all time.  Either that or stubborn people who refuse to believe anyone can surpass their heroes.  Hell, he can win the current tourney and there will still be people complaining that he has yet to win a World Cup so it doesn't count until he does.

I wouldn't say soccerfootball is more complex from a title perspective.  World Cup is your biggest and baddest.  That's the ultimate prize right there.  Harder and more noteworthy?  Absolutely.  More complex?  Not for a commonplace fan looking for someone to win on the grandest stage of them all.

 

World cup have traditionally been biggest and baddest only for non-European teams, as the European Championships have been much harder to qualify in the first place - which is why some people value EC higher. Granted, it's debatable if the one or two American top teams make up for the rest.

So Europe has the same feeling as the US does regarding their own internal sports championships?  Did not know that.

As an American I have always found it funny that we (Americans) place the title "world champions" on our own national leagues like the NBA and MLB when there are other countries that have just as robust of leagues out there.  I have always viewed the actual world championships (World Cup, Olympics to an extent) as the biggest and baddest of them all because even though there might be some dilluted talent in there, you are competing with the best the rest of the world has to offer.



Neodegenerate said:
bdbdbd said:

 

World cup have traditionally been biggest and baddest only for non-European teams, as the European Championships have been much harder to qualify in the first place - which is why some people value EC higher. Granted, it's debatable if the one or two American top teams make up for the rest.

So Europe has the same feeling as the US does regarding their own internal sports championships?  Did not know that.

As an American I have always found it funny that we (Americans) place the title "world champions" on our own national leagues like the NBA and MLB when there are other countries that have just as robust of leagues out there.  I have always viewed the actual world championships (World Cup, Olympics to an extent) as the biggest and baddest of them all because even though there might be some dilluted talent in there, you are competing with the best the rest of the world has to offer.

It's about recognition. Most foreign basketball players and coaches recognize that you have made it big if you made it to NBA.



kurasakiichimaru said:
Neodegenerate said:

So Europe has the same feeling as the US does regarding their own internal sports championships?  Did not know that.

As an American I have always found it funny that we (Americans) place the title "world champions" on our own national leagues like the NBA and MLB when there are other countries that have just as robust of leagues out there.  I have always viewed the actual world championships (World Cup, Olympics to an extent) as the biggest and baddest of them all because even though there might be some dilluted talent in there, you are competing with the best the rest of the world has to offer.

It's about recognition. Most foreign basketball players and coaches recognize that you have made it big if you made it to NBA.

Oh of course, but I don't think Lebron has earned the right to be called world champion for winning his national basketball championship.

Edit: The only American sport that I feel that makes any sense with is Football since with the exception of Canada, who has different rules for their variant, I don't think many nations have American Football leagues.



He earned it though and it doesn't matter. NBA is where the best players are, where the best coaches are, where the greatest organizations/teams are, where the money, fame and fortune are at, where the strongest pool of national talent in the world are and recognized by all the basketball players, foreign or local as such. It's where the true glory is. It's basically the dream within a dream within a dream of every basketball player in the world.

Olympics is still a good catch though but nah not enough probably just bragging rights if you beat USA.... Tim Duncan is a legend and he has none so...


American Football is a local sports so nah, we don't care if the champions are called world champions.hin a dream