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Forums - Sports Discussion - Why does Messi needs to win a major tournament in order to be compared to Pele and Maradona?

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One man can not win a football title on his own. Pele and Maradona had good team mates during their days. Messi on his own is comparable or if not better than Pele and Maradona. Football is a team sport of 11 men on the field playing as a team. Football is not an individual sport like tennis, golf or boxing.



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Goatseye said:

I don't understand why he has to win a collective trophie to be considered for individual comparisons. Rose tinted glasses are what comes to mind when old folks try to explain that Pele and Maradona "gave" their respective teams world cup trophies. While I think in their era, Pele and Maradona had much better teams assembled than what Messi inherited nowadays. Aditionally, football is much more tactical and professional than what it was from 60's till 80's. Argentina back 4 has been average for years and they're never compact to save their lives. 

Chime in I wanna read your opinions.

Seriously you said the Maradona's Argentina was stronger than the actual Argentina? Higuain is one of the best offensive player in the world, currently maybe is the best beside Lewandowski, same Di Maria, Aguero and the same Messi. They choose to NOT convocate Dybala and Icardi, that could easily be the first pick in every national team, or at least the most, depending on the formation. Mascherano and Banega are other two top player, even Lamela and Lavezzi.

The truth is that in the most important match with the Argentina Messi flopped. Remember the last year's final? The World cup's final? Maradona alone won the world cup, Messi, with other of best players in the world can't win nothing outside Barcellona.



Football back then was 70 times more brutal then today... I bet even messi would get his ass kicked if we send him back with a time-machine.. I am not joking.. I used to be a massive Football fanboy growing up, bought all the documentaries about Pele and Maradona, and pretty much all the legends and how things was back then.. It's kindergaarden today vs those days... I guess everything get rougher the further back we go, not only football.

Pele and Maradona still accomplished things that is even considered legendary by today's standard. Like Maradona dribling through a entire field, without even being touched at all several times.. He was a one-man team and same with Pele.

No disrespect for today's Football heroes, they are amazing by today's standards which just happen to be a lot more humanitarian with more strict rules then what life in general was back then.. Now kids can't even climb tree's without parent's freaking the shit out.

 

I still love the meme where you see christiano faking a hit to the face by a tiny slap, falling down and rolling around, and then we see a woman football team where a women get a real punch in the face but continues to play with blood all over her face and no crying... I can't stop cracking everytime i see it.. 

Also, Just in case.. It's calle Football, i don't  understand why USA have taken that name for a sport that basically involves using your hands 90% of the game... Even the Metric system and the ''Military clock as USA calls it'' was perfected and is a lot less confusing to use.. but no.. You guys just need to make things complicated hahaha! (Joke intended as a little poking) I am actually surprised that US didn't call basketball for Loopball haha! 



 

PSN: Opticstrike90
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LOL, Messi just quit ("retired") his national team after choking away the finals with a missed penalty. I think the debate is settled, he'll never be as great as Maradona was.



4 finals losses. Messi is the lebron james of soccer, an all time great talent that falls just short of the the greatest of all time clutch players in their sports, MJ and Maradona



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CGcarmineCG said:

Seriously you said the Maradona's Argentina was stronger than the actual Argentina? Higuain is one of the best offensive player in the world, currently maybe is the best beside Lewandowski, same Di Maria, Aguero and the same Messi. They choose to NOT convocate Dybala and Icardi, that could easily be the first pick in every national team, or at least the most, depending on the formation. Mascherano and Banega are other two top player, even Lamela and Lavezzi.

The truth is that in the most important match with the Argentina Messi flopped. Remember the last year's final? The World cup's final? Maradona alone won the world cup, Messi, with other of best players in the world can't win nothing outside Barcellona.

While I agree that Pelé had a better team, he won 3 damn world cups, with the 58/62 team and with a new one in 1970. Maradona's team was weaker than Messi's Argentina. Right now they have one of the best national teams in the world and cannot accomplish anything with it.

Even if he is a genius, Messi always underdelivered in the national team. He never had a decent sequence of good matches. It's always predictable, easy to be nulified by the opposite team's defense.

Football is a collective sport, but people forget that top players like Messi, C Ronald, Neymar and such are feared. The other team normally will use 2 dedicated players to defend against them and the rest of the defense is really handicaped.

As I said earlier, he will never be an all-time great until he wons the World Cup. Even then, he isn't a Pelé (his achievements are dwarfed by this guy) or Maradona (same play style, but El Pibe de Oro was one level above) and never will be.



Just proves how silly the logic is, if Argentina won the penalties, Messi would've somehow became a better player than he already is.

And why are you guys now saying the debate is just now settled? Your minds were made up before the finale anyway.

Glad he is retired, the Portuguese journalism were never as harsh with CR like the Argentinians are with Messi. They treat him with respect despite the lack of trophies. Now Messi can be among a team and a crowd that appreciate what he's done for them.

10 years a star, shining bright and still more to give, you can't really say that about any other player.



torok said:
CGcarmineCG said:

Seriously you said the Maradona's Argentina was stronger than the actual Argentina? Higuain is one of the best offensive player in the world, currently maybe is the best beside Lewandowski, same Di Maria, Aguero and the same Messi. They choose to NOT convocate Dybala and Icardi, that could easily be the first pick in every national team, or at least the most, depending on the formation. Mascherano and Banega are other two top player, even Lamela and Lavezzi.

The truth is that in the most important match with the Argentina Messi flopped. Remember the last year's final? The World cup's final? Maradona alone won the world cup, Messi, with other of best players in the world can't win nothing outside Barcellona.

While I agree that Pelé had a better team, he won 3 damn world cups, with the 58/62 team and with a new one in 1970. Maradona's team was weaker than Messi's Argentina. Right now they have one of the best national teams in the world and cannot accomplish anything with it.

Even if he is a genius, Messi always underdelivered in the national team. He never had a decent sequence of good matches. It's always predictable, easy to be nulified by the opposite team's defense.

Football is a collective sport, but people forget that top players like Messi, C Ronald, Neymar and such are feared. The other team normally will use 2 dedicated players to defend against them and the rest of the defense is really handicaped.

As I said earlier, he will never be an all-time great until he wons the World Cup. Even then, he isn't a Pelé (his achievements are dwarfed by this guy) or Maradona (same play style, but El Pibe de Oro was one level above) and never will be.

Spot on.People making excuses about this team not be great,hahaha.This team was hell of a lot more talented than the Maradona's world cup team.

 

And yes mind was made up he will never be the greatest with no world cups,which is the pinnacle of football.It's funny how some people say Pele never left Brazil(he was not allowed to,he is a national treasure)yet everything Messi did was in one league with one team.

 

I said it before I will say it again,he is a choker along with his teammates,third final running.Now he goes and quit,while his team is struggling to qualify for the world cup.Yup what a great.



I just love how people say Pele won 3 world cup while coming from the bench for the first one, barely play in the second one and was only a starter from start to finish in 1970. Just keep repeating what you hear and do not make any research on your own....



REDZONE said:
torok said:

While I agree that Pelé had a better team, he won 3 damn world cups, with the 58/62 team and with a new one in 1970. Maradona's team was weaker than Messi's Argentina. Right now they have one of the best national teams in the world and cannot accomplish anything with it.

Even if he is a genius, Messi always underdelivered in the national team. He never had a decent sequence of good matches. It's always predictable, easy to be nulified by the opposite team's defense.

Football is a collective sport, but people forget that top players like Messi, C Ronald, Neymar and such are feared. The other team normally will use 2 dedicated players to defend against them and the rest of the defense is really handicaped.

As I said earlier, he will never be an all-time great until he wons the World Cup. Even then, he isn't a Pelé (his achievements are dwarfed by this guy) or Maradona (same play style, but El Pibe de Oro was one level above) and never will be.

Spot on.People making excuses about this team not be great,hahaha.This team was hell of a lot more talented than the Maradona's world cup team.

 

And yes mind was made up he will never be the greatest with no world cups,which is the pinnacle of football.It's funny how some people say Pele never left Brazil(he was not allowed to,he is a national treasure)yet everything Messi did was in one league with one team.

 

I said it before I will say it again,he is a choker along with his teammates,third final running.Now he goes and quit,while his team is struggling to qualify for the world cup.Yup what a great.

I really don't understand you guys, to win an international Cup, you have to have a TEAM. Messi ended Copa America with 5 goals, 4 assists and a lot of great performances.

Chile is a way better team than Argentina. You got it? A team, a block that defends and attacks as a single unit, pressures the opponent away from their box and can play comfortably off-ball. Team is not about single units but the whole. That's what this Argentina team doesn't have the heart to do.

Di Maria was absent, Higuain was as thriftless as Aguero in front of goal, the midfield was locked by Chile because they had 3 defensive midfielders and who had to come from the wing to the middle to coordinate the attacking efforts? Messi.

Learn the definition of choke, Messi was fouled almost everytime he lead the attack, he assisted with his freeckiks and got players conditioned with cards they were receiving for stopping him with fouls. He didn't dissapear from the game, Chile is not a fussball team.