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contestgamer on 27 June 2016
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Neodegenerate said:
contestgamer said:

Vidal doesnt matter, he's not even in the same league as Messi. To be the greatest you need to be a closer and show up on the biggest stages. Messi as the greatest in the world, the greatest on his team and some would argue the greatest of all time has a responsibility to close the deal. He failed. Pnalty kicks arent luck, if they were everyone would make and miss them at the same rate. They're equal part skill and ice cold veins. Messi is missing the latter and him quitting like he did proves that. Messi has a history of choking penalties away, just see chelsea in the finals. You cant make a claim to be the greatest of all time if you are unable to close the deal, again and again and again. In the NBA lergacies are made in the 4th quarter and what you do to close the game out. You need to close that deal in soccer too and it comes down to scoring a goal. If you're a forward and the game hinges on one goal difference, your job is to close that deal by scoring that goal. Not defer to someone else and hope they score it. You take it in to your own hands. See Zidan in CL finals, see Messi against Iran, see Maradona against England. The problem with Messi is that he has a history of being unable to step up and carry his international teams in big moments, where they are looking at him to finally close the deal. 

Messi is top 5 all time, but I can't give him #1 just like I can't give Lebron James #1 in the NBA either - because both have a history of being unable to close in the biggest moments and stages of the game. 

I agree completely with your assessments here.  To be the best in the world at what you do means finding a way to overcome and get the goal, shot, block, save, whatever you need in order to pull your team ahead.  It certainly doesn't mean choking it away multiple times.

Point of curiousity, did Lebron's performance in the most recent finals change his position in your top 10 at all?

 

All time career greatness wise yeah, it moved him in to my top 5, not sure exactly where but probably ahead of Bird at #4. His resume is simply too strong now. I'd take Bird in close the deal situations every day of the week, but for the other 3 and a half quarters I'll take Lebron. If I'm going in to a finals series though, just 7 games for the trophy, I'm taking Shaq, Kobe, Bird, and maybe Hakeem ahead of him. I don't trust Lebron the way I trust those guys in close out situations, just the way I don't trust Messi. But his overall career greatness is just too much for me to ignore. Lebron was great in these finals, but to be honest Curry's historically epic choke job did a lot of the work for him.

 

PS: I dont know where I rank Wilt and Russel so I dont rank them - they have the titles, but I've watched them play (not a lot, just a few games which are available online) and honestly I think they'd get railroaded in todays league. That's the way I feel about Pele too based on full games I've watched of him, which is why I rank him below Maradona as well. Not their fault, they destroyed everyone they faced but the competition just wasnt that impresive and that factors in for me too.