aLkaLiNE said:
AsGryffynn said:
They already cleaned their reputation this one, but they did it too late. Now, if they take this and run with it, they might win next gen. This has never been a decided race, and when you're dealing with a company who, when pissed, can simply retort to brute forcing things to go their way by paying/intimidating/taking forcefully over something, there is never a clear winner. Let's face it, they lost because they had a group of fools in charge. If they wanted, next gen they could crush the competition effortlessly by leveraging Windows alongside the Xbox brand (just think about how far better the Xbox would sell if it could double as a branded PC and play PC games AND Xbox exclusive games).
Also, I am afraid I don't follow with the whole hardware part when they still create the best smartphones and the Surface brand has been getting a lot of points over the Macbook and iPad computers. Thinking otherwise is nothing but denial and if you insist on it, you're a fool.
And when the gen is over, people forget everything that happened. Also, the last generation ended before the PS3 could close the gap (it ended when the Wii U was out. The PS3 took another two to three months to close the gap) so the Xbox 360 was a second place. In other words, MS can still take the first place (and make it final) next gen if they actually try rather than getting comfy, so spare me all the doom and gloom speech worthy of a fatalistic hater...
|
Rather interesting perception you got there dude.
|
I believe that when you control the OS the vast majority of the world uses, you can use that to benefit all your other products.
Sprash said:
AsGryffynn said:
I thought PS owners hated MS the most, but it seems I was wrong...
What's wrong with MS being first place? I always like to see the underdog biting back and claiming what is rightfully theirs, plus, Steam has let me down exactly the same way Sony and Nintendo have. At least I am sure I won't find crap in the Windows Store...
Ah, those days where MS taking over the world was the future... I will never forget them, the days where I'd kick up Windows 98 and hear how MS did it again... Great times...
|
I don't know why you think that except for a few trolls and ...boys you see on the internet the majority of the ps owner doesn't hate MS.
|
Oh no, I didn't imply that. I just though most of the haters were on the Sony side... Rarely did I see Nintendo fans criticizing the Xbox besides being dudebro...
Zanten said:
AsGryffynn said:
Just one? I could think of more than that...
As for being the shadow of someone else, I am afraid you're deeply mistaken. If there was a reason they didn't win with the OG Xbox, it was because they were the newcomer, then it was because they didn't have a blu ray drive and their console was more dated (the two year lead also crippled them later on) and now because of bad rep. Had they decided to embrace their pre Mattrick selves (more games, JP support, streamlined form factor, consumer friendly policies, independent optional Kinect, waiting until the last second to pump the power of their own machine and make it the strongest, enhanced customization options) then there's no doubt they'd have swallowed Sony up this gen. Heck, the only reason they didn't "win" the last one was because of the very cheap, very child friendly Wii. Since I don't count victories against hardware that is completely different, they technically won last gen.
They already cleaned their reputation this one, but they did it too late. Now, if they take this and run with it, they might win next gen. This has never been a decided race, and when you're dealing with a company who, when pissed, can simply retort to brute forcing things to go their way by paying/intimidating/taking forcefully over something, there is never a clear winner. Let's face it, they lost because they had a group of fools in charge. If they wanted, next gen they could crush the competition effortlessly by leveraging Windows alongside the Xbox brand (just think about how far better the Xbox would sell if it could double as a branded PC and play PC games AND Xbox exclusive games).
Also, I am afraid I don't follow with the whole hardware part when they still create the best smartphones and the Surface brand has been getting a lot of points over the Macbook and iPad computers. Thinking otherwise is nothing but denial and if you insist on it, you're a fool.
And when the gen is over, people forget everything that happened. Also, the last generation ended before the PS3 could close the gap (it ended when the Wii U was out. The PS3 took another two to three months to close the gap) so the Xbox 360 was a second place. In other words, MS can still take the first place (and make it final) next gen if they actually try rather than getting comfy, so spare me all the doom and gloom speech worthy of a fatalistic hater...
|
Don't think it would be effortless. I think it's within the realm of possibly, but it's definitely going to take effort, and a lot of it.
Because the one thing Microsoft's shown rather consistently when it comes to the Xbox brand is that it's significantly weaker on the global stage. Even the Xbox 360, which had literally every possible advantage- better pricing, early start, better multiplatform performance, people didn't loathe it and its stupid arrogance like they loathed the early PS3, pretty much EVERYTHING- wasn't enough to secure them numerous markets. Markets that, though individually small, were what ultimately prevented the 360 from having a runaway victory against the PS3. (Regardless of where the generation ended, who's in second or third, etc, you've got to admit, it was pretty close. =P )
And looking at this generation, the Xbox One- which, along with its initially higher price point also launched in many, many markets substantially later than the PS4, and lacks even a performance advantage- looks to have further damaged their brand power outside of the U.S., U.K., and their other Xbox 360 strongholds. In Japan, the Xbox One managed to do incredibly poorly even by the standards of an Xbox console in Japan, and when it comes to regions like Germany, France, etc, the PS4's marketshare seems to be higher than the PS3's, and the Xbox One's is much lower than the Xbox 360's.
Recovering enough to make the Xbox Two a solid competitor in the territories the Xbox 360 was dominant in is one thing, and perfectly doable if they launch the generation on the right foot. (Will it be even MORE dominant than the Xbox 360 in the U.S.? That I'm less certain of.) At least in those regions, though, they have a strong base of current and former fans to build upon.
But trying to create a brand that transcends multiple cultures, languages and customs to compete with a company that has held the upper hand in many of those territories for four generations straight now is going to be a truly Herculean task. A lot of that fanbase is going to need to be built up entirely from scratch. I'm not saying Microsoft can't do it, but it sure as heck won't be effortless, the logistics and planning alone would be immense, and they'll need to spend ten times more than Sony in advertising to counter their competitor's home field advantage. They will need a LOT of exclusives that appeal to more than just a Western audience- I'm talking Japanese titles and other more 'niche' items.
----
And I do mean actual exclusives. Because no, simply leveraging PC games in those regions isn't necessarily going to be enough. Something you may be neglecting when you say 'sell PC games' is that an Xbox branded PC would- let's face it- probably only allow its users to buy from the Windows Store, because that's kind of the entire point of both Xbox and Playstation; monopoly on the storefront. No Steam, no GoG, etc. Meaning the value of this whole 'PC games on Xbox' thing will be tied entirely to how many developers choose to make use of UWP, and that will be tied to how the PC userbase responds to it, and right now the overall response is not filled with love and sunshine.
Right now, Microsoft needs to focus on making Universal Windows Apps an actual thing that people like, or at least somewhat tolerate, and not something that's raised more than one comment of 'Jesus, I'd Prefer Games For Windows Live!' so developers can be confident that if they make their title a Universal Windows App, the bulk of the PC demographic aren't going to shun it on principle. Once they've done that- once they've loosened the restrictions on modding, third-party attachments, and fixed the other issues the platform has- then maybe 'leveraging Windows' will actually mean something. =P
But right now, it's kind of an empty prospect.
|
Yeah well, I was going with the rather unlikely "Xbox Two becomes the next iMac PC" which would need MS to throw everything towards that goal. But now that I realize it, it is an effort.
Since MS regards Xbox no differently than Sony does phones, the Xbox brand isn't very strong outside America. It's something I've noticed and that would indeed need to be fixed to allow for them to establish themselves in a global scale.
Ironically, the reason the X360 had better reception was because MS was actually trying to market to people outside the US and Canada but then Mattrick arrived and they focused on America once again and forgot everything else. Europe is the true reason the MS console can't catch up. MS also has a bad image in Europe (for some reason, Russia is the exception, as is the UK and Ireland) that they need to shake off to sell better.
Well, I was talking in a "MS decides to reach a deal" scenario where they allow Steam or fix the Windows Store to allow for what Steam does, with the only difference being pricing. Since the hardware would definitely be cheaper (than a gaming PC) then they could market it relying on that feature alone.
It relies on the premise that MS will overhaul it's UWP, but the potential is there if they want to stop being the runner up... or winning by a hair...
WolfpackN64 said:
AsGryffynn said:
I thought PS owners hated MS the most, but it seems I was wrong...
What's wrong with MS being first place? I always like to see the underdog biting back and claiming what is rightfully theirs, plus, Steam has let me down exactly the same way Sony and Nintendo have. At least I am sure I won't find crap in the Windows Store...
|
It's because their app platform is proprietary.
|
I never found that wrong... might be me dealing with other propietary apps...
Shiken said:
AsGryffynn said:
Just one? I could think of more than that...
As for being the shadow of someone else, I am afraid you're deeply mistaken. If there was a reason they didn't win with the OG Xbox, it was because they were the newcomer, then it was because they didn't have a blu ray drive and their console was more dated (the two year lead also crippled them later on) and now because of bad rep. Had they decided to embrace their pre Mattrick selves (more games, JP support, streamlined form factor, consumer friendly policies, independent optional Kinect, waiting until the last second to pump the power of their own machine and make it the strongest, enhanced customization options) then there's no doubt they'd have swallowed Sony up this gen. Heck, the only reason they didn't "win" the last one was because of the very cheap, very child friendly Wii. Since I don't count victories against hardware that is completely different, they technically won last gen.
They already cleaned their reputation this one, but they did it too late. Now, if they take this and run with it, they might win next gen. This has never been a decided race, and when you're dealing with a company who, when pissed, can simply retort to brute forcing things to go their way by paying/intimidating/taking forcefully over something, there is never a clear winner. Let's face it, they lost because they had a group of fools in charge. If they wanted, next gen they could crush the competition effortlessly by leveraging Windows alongside the Xbox brand (just think about how far better the Xbox would sell if it could double as a branded PC and play PC games AND Xbox exclusive games).
Also, I am afraid I don't follow with the whole hardware part when they still create the best smartphones and the Surface brand has been getting a lot of points over the Macbook and iPad computers. Thinking otherwise is nothing but denial and if you insist on it, you're a fool.
And when the gen is over, people forget everything that happened. Also, the last generation ended before the PS3 could close the gap (it ended when the Wii U was out. The PS3 took another two to three months to close the gap) so the Xbox 360 was a second place. In other words, MS can still take the first place (and make it final) next gen if they actually try rather than getting comfy, so spare me all the doom and gloom speech worthy of a fatalistic hater...
|
Ok, well you will be waiting a long time for that to happen. I can see I will be stuck talking to a wall here, but reality will have to set the issue strait with time. At that point, we will revisit this "denial" discussion.
And for the record, I have all three consoles and all X1 console exclusives. It is by far the weakest of the big three in that regard and I have my PS4 for everything else. If I was simply a hater, I would not have the X1 at all, let alone its games. I just tend to side with reality, and as of now the reality is they are always in the shadow of everyone else always being in last place by end of the gen and when they do take second, they are so far behind it isn't even worth comparing anymore. They suffer from one of the biggest identity crisis issues when it comes to gaming that I have seen in a loooong time.
|
Denial? I am trying to NOT show bias. When you have a company who controls virtually all of the world's computers, you know this is the kind of giant that can turn things around in one fell swoop. I am not saying it will happen. I am saying they can, but they lack the interest or don't want to play their hand.
They've been here for three generations. The first one was their debut and they placed second. The PS2 was known for being the first console with DVD playback. Though the Xbox had it, you needed an add on for it. It was an unfair competition from the start. The Nvidia chipsets didn't help them, yet they still overtook the better known and cheaper Gamecube.
The second pits them against the dirt cheap Wii and it's gimmicky motion sensors that, unlike the Kinect, didn't cost more than a Logitech keyboard. Then comes this gen and they shoot themselves in the foot, limping along.
The Xbox brand has never had "fair" competition were the three consoles had the same. It always had to contend with something that had a unique feature and allowed them to place a lot of distance between them solely thanks to a gimmick. The DVD player, the Wii mote, the PS4's stronger APU which was a last minute improvement and the PR fiasco. If they had started this gen by adding more features to their original model, and held out for a superior mobo, they'd have taken this gen. They didn't because their vision backfired. They've shaken that off, but now have to play their hand wisely next time. No more gimmicks that cost customers time and money. No more features locked behind hardware, no more limiting customization. All they need is to literally start producing last, but start selling at the same time and their console will take a gen.
The only identity crisis they suffer is following others shoes rather than doing what they do best. They wanted to turn the One into another Wii, they wanted to turn the 360 into another PS2 and they wanted to turn the OG Xbox into another Dreamcast. They've always been one step behind their competitors because they are trying to imitate them rather than doing their own thing.
Ironically, it took them people telling them to be more like other companies for them to finally start doing what they do best.
