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Forums - Politics Discussion - Germans don't want Merkel anymore...

Valdath said:
Muslim countries need dictators to behave.

It's sad but it's the truth, their culture and religion are simply too toxic, give them freedom and they'll be in constant war, just like it's always been.

I don't understand the people who blame everything that happens in the middle esst on the west.... the middle east has always been in war ever since the Quran was made.

I also don't understand the left and feminists defending mass inmigration, don't realize how terrible their lifes could be under sharia law?

Exactly it has been shown in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Lybia. It also has been shown islamic cultures and Western cultures don't mix all that well especially not in these kind of numbers. But we are in fact faulty of the destablisation of the region by overthrowing dictators, we should never ever do that again.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Valdath said:
Muslim countries need dictators to behave.

It's sad but it's the truth, their culture and religion are simply too toxic, give them freedom and they'll be in constant war, just like it's always been.

I don't understand the people who blame everything that happens in the middle esst on the west.... the middle east has always been in war ever since the Quran was made.

I also don't understand the left and feminists defending mass inmigration, don't realize how terrible their lifes could be under sharia law?

This post is full of ignorance.

The culture and religion sure give a good platform for violence, but it seems the majority doesn't share those violent views.

You want to go back in time? Have you perhaps heard about the hundreds of years of crusades, initiated by European nations in the name of their religion? A lot is done in the name of religion, yet it may not actually be in accordance with the religion. And more recently, a lot of the wars have been created, provoked, and fueled by western countries. I'm not saying the Islamic culture is all good either, but there's a certain responsibility the west should take as well. It's not black and white. And getting back to that 'Islamic culture', I'm sure poverty and other societal problems play a role too.

Are you implying that mass immigration leads to the Sharia law? Those two things are barely related at all, yet you imply one of them leads to the other.



Azzanation said:
Here is an example of letting migrants into a country and allowing them what they want. Down here in Australia, we have had many migrants, From the 80s we had a swarm of Europeans who accepted the Australian way. 90s we had a swarm full of Asians, who gladly accepted Australia’s way. In the 2000s we are getting many from the Eastern Europe countries who bring their strong religious beliefs with them. There’s nothing wrong with that, but now over the course of many years, they never accepted Australia’s way, in fact Australia rules are changing because of them. We are no longer aloud to sing the national anthems in our schools, we can’t even wave the Aus flag around without getting questioned due to racism.

Most of the crime waves here are based around religious beliefs. Rape, thief, murder or stabbings tend to always lead to a Muslim or migrant.

Many Muslim men condemn Aus woman who don’t fully cover up in towels. They don’t want to live under another rules, they want to live under their own rules but in another country. The way the world is going, by allowing migrants into their countries, in a matter of years the world will change. In another 10 years Australia’s will be another India, or Muslim country. Same goes for the rest of the world. Keep allowing these people in and the more they will slowly change the country to fit their needs.
Here is what the audience is like in Australia and what they think of a British solder getting murdered in England. This is coming from what he thinks of our society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssj_pOHM8pg
^ I suggest those who want to defend what iv stated watch it before having your say in there defence.

I walk the same streets as these men.

It would really help if you got your facts straight.

The National Anthem is being sung in every school in Australia, with the exception of one or two backwards schools, pretty much all of which are cases of individual decisions without consultation. What you've done is bought into a number of hoax stories that claim that various schools prevented the singing of the national anthem, because of supposed complaints by certain segments of society...

... indeed, I'm betting that you also believe that Muslim children are walking out of the anthem because they're against it. Here's the big thing that your racist sources didn't tell you - they were walking out because it was during the Muslim equivalent of Lent, and during this period they're not allowed to do things that bring them joy. That's right - they were walking out because the Anthem brings them joy.

And the issue with people waving the Australian flag around isn't the waving of the flag, it's the idiots that drape themselves in the flag, and use the flag to justify their racism that are criticised. Nobody considers these children to be "questioned due to racism". Or these young Muslim girls. Our politicians constantly surround themselves with the flag. But when Bogans drape themselves in the flag, when they wave the flag while shouting racist sentiments, when they defile the flag with messages of intolerance, and especially when they do all of the above, they are rightfully called racist bigots.

Our national anthem has two verses - I'm betting that you, and the other so-called "patriots", aren't even aware of that. And in the second verse, one of the lines goes "For those who've come across the seas, we've boundless plains to share". That's right, for all your ranting, it is you and others like you who are defiling Australia, its flag, its anthem, and its culture.

But I do like how you used one interview with one muslim man, plus a few people around him, to justify your bias, but refuse to acknowledge the great violence done in the name of anti-islam. One of my good friends is a muslim. He's also incredibly pro-Australia. He is upset about actions taken in other countries, but he doesn't hesitate one iota before condemning the actions of groups like ISIS. In fact, he's more likely to believe that those people aren't Muslims at all.

You say "Many Muslim men..." - to that, I simply say [citation required]. You have zero evidence that more than a small subset of Muslim men do it.

Here are a few final facts. Muslims represent 2.2% of all Australians (which actually means there are more Buddhists than Muslims in Australia). Despite claims to the contrary, the vast majority of these are peace-loving, Australia-loving people who just want to live their lives by their religious beliefs, no different from the average Australian Christian. When they ask for Sharia Law, they're not asking for what you think they're asking for. They're asking for the right to have Islamic tribunals set up for dealing with issues between Muslims (who agree to take things to the tribunal instead of the courts) according to Islamic customs. They don't want to change any laws, they just want those tribunals to be able to pass the same kinds of decisions that can be passed by regular courts, and have them hold the same force. Note that it's the "same kinds of decisions" - no forced marriage, no capital punishment, no chopping off of hands, they don't want to be able to subvert existing law. They want things like the ability to apply Islamic principles of divorce settlements, for instance, if both parties agree to the tribunal.

They would still be 100% subject to Australian laws, and they aren't seeking to change those laws. Because Islam actually establishes the principle that you obey the laws of the land you are in - the only exception is where the law requires the Muslim to do what they consider sinful. Fortunately, Western nations don't force people to do things. That's why Muslims love it so much in Australia - in many of their countries of origin/ancestry, rulers have dictated what people can and can't do. They love Australia's religious freedom - they don't want to change it.

But hey, you're not going to read what I've had to say. And I accept that. You've made up your mind. All I can hope is that someone who might have been swayed by your misguided claims get to hear an alternative argument.

EDIT: Note that draping yourself in an actual Australian flag, as opposed to simply wearing things that have the Australian flag as part of their design, is considered defilement of the flag. Here's the RSL calling for a ban on Australians draping themselves in the flag. But the so-called "patriots", who will argue that they're defending what the soldiers fought for, aren't going to listen to those soldiers. It's not really about defending Australia. It's about attacking Muslims and defending racism.



Valdath said:
Muslim countries need dictators to behave.

It's sad but it's the truth, their culture and religion are simply too toxic, give them freedom and they'll be in constant war, just like it's always been.

I don't understand the people who blame everything that happens in the middle esst on the west.... the middle east has always been in war ever since the Quran was made.

I also don't understand the left and feminists defending mass inmigration, don't realize how terrible their lifes could be under sharia law?

Nah I think you need to educate yourself before putting your 2 cents in.

Islamic religion is awesome. What is not awesome is the wahhabist sect that has caught on thanks to Saudi and Qatari funding. The violence is also cultural, one needs to look at from which community terrorism comes. It's always Arabs, Arabs only represent 15% of muslims.  If Islam was as bad as it's made out to be then today half of Europe would be muslim considering they were ruled by them for centuries.

It's easier for Western propaganda to blame muslims due to brand recognition than a difficult unheard of word like wahhabism, most racists wouldn't care either way, crimes committed by brown people means all brown people are bad.



If we wouldn't be bombing Syria, this "madness" wouldn't have happened in the first place. These people need a safe place (given, Eastern Europe should stop being a giant bunch of wussies and help out). The AfD is a fringe organization with no place in a modern society. I'll leave it at that.



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barneystinson69 said:
Soundwave said:

That would have to be a hell of a tax cut, because raising a kid for 18-21 years ends up costing about 300,000 Euro each. Doubt the government could subsidize that without going into Greece sized debt. Would you prefer that? 

Beyond that, these days Western women aren't just cows willing to pump out babies on demand like its 1930, most Western women are good with having 1 or 2 kids and have no intention of staying pregnant for like their entire 20s. Nor do I think do modern Western men want that either. 

I've been to Germany and seen immigrants there and to the UK as well. The "horror" stories are grossly exagerrated, most immigrants are friendly from my experiences. Are there some hurdles and do there need to be some better integration. Yes, sure. The UK generally actually is quite nice, I mean the way you guys make it sound its like "the average immigrant" in the UK is some dude wearing ancient Arabic garmets who can't speak any English. When in fact most of them are dressed in business suits with a nice British accent just going to work evey day, who care about as much as the Arsenal or Liverpool football game as anything else. 

Well maybe your experience is great, but when I was in the UK, the locals told me themselves there were certain muslim no-go area's, and I shouldn't be there unless I needed to be. This was a few years ago, and I doubt things have gotten better. And I'm not saying total subsidizing, but offer some sort of benifit towards producing kids. Immigration is a way to destroy your local populace, and cause racial tention. Cologne showed that these people aren't willing to integrate, I wouldn't be willing to trust them again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, five, ten, thirty, and now I feeled robbed.

 

Anyway its late, so I'll probably reply to you tomorrow.

I do not want to be mean, but You (along with some of the other posters here) have a really bad habit of catagorizing everyone from a certain region into one group. Personally having been born in the Middle East to a largely Muslim family (though with people of other religions in there as well) and then legally immigrating to Canada with my parents and subsequentlly converting (along with my Mom) to Christianity; I really do not see your point as to how Middle Easterners are somehow inherintly incapable of integrating. I am also not sure how me and other people like me are stoking racial tensions (also are we not all a part of the human race)? Is it because we may be two shades darker than you, because in all honesty a person has the ability to choose what culture and religion to follow (if they indeed choose to follow a religion at all), but skin color is not something that one can control and I do not see how that is big problem anyways because I have seen people from Greece that have darker skin then I do and no one has a problem with them. Also, having gone to school and university in Toronto and been exposed to a wide variety of people from different places as well as based on what I have seen from some of my Dad's university friends who immigrated here 20-30 years ago from the same country as us I can say that a great deal of people from the Middle East (even some who identify as spiritually Muslim) do not want anyform of sharia law, they do not wear the hijab, and they do not care about the restrictions and value systems of the places they left. They, like my family, came to Canada to be Canadian and contribute to Canadian society and they do not desire to follow any of the rules from countries they were born in. Therefore, please do not lump all of us into one catagory simply because of the place we were born in.

Now with that being said, there are fundementalists that still want to follow the rules of the places they came from and these people's views are problamatic. That is why proper screening of people through official immigration channels is important and why mass migration (like we have been seeing in Europe through Merkel's policies) is a terrible idea. Integration (and the speed at which it is done) often hinges on two factors: 1) the host country's willingness to accept the new person and see them as an individual and 2) the willingness of the person immigrating to immerse themselves and adopt the host culture and leave behind ideologies that are incompatible. The second point has very little to do with were an immigrant is born but rather it has to do with the individual's own conviction to adapt and some people (regardless of whether they are from South-East Asia, Middle East, Africa, South America, etc.) are willing to immerse themselves and adapt to the host culture whereas other people have absolutly no desire to. Indeed, a better and more balanced way Merkel could have handled this issue was redirect those who arrived in Europe through Greece and Macedonia to Trukey before allowing them to enter central and western continential Europe (this would have sent a signal and curbed the flow of people coming in) followed by sending financial and physical aide support to regfugee centres within Turkey (which costs less then taking in 1 million+ refugees and it helps a greater number of people). Western countries could then further help by taking in the most vulnerable people (LGBTQ, relgious and non-religious minorities such as Christians, Jewish people, Yezidis, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.) as well as skilled people, based on the host country's need, that are willing to integrate.



Already been said, but the problem is people being afraid to be laveled "racist". Its know that islam prevents them from integrating, its on the writing of their book and they live that book how they see fit. Its not wrong to belive what ever you belive in, but when your in another country you have to abide by their laws aand be a productive member of society. Its a know fact that muslim crimes are being covered up to calm the citizens and not start a raze war, but now that its being leaked everyware the citizens have becccome more paranoid due to getting so much information at once. Thay probably lived one experiencce and then see all thats been covered up and say yes, its all true since it also happened to me. It was for a good cause, but they chose the wrong way to help and now they are paying the prize.

The only way to bring the peace back and keep the inmigrants is to harshly enforce the law on them and make them obey. If they cant, send them back. Its far to late for the ones that actually behave, that radical minority has ruined it for the rest. Now they all must pay, as sad and cruel as that might be. Its the same way as feminism and black live matter and other partys who intended to be good, but are now seen as a joke in the public eye cuz the radical minority destroyed the good intentions and the rest just roled with it untill there was nothing left.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Barozi said:
the AFD is an insignificant protest party that will never be part of any government. They can't and won't change anything. Like the Pirate party, they will soon be at 1-2% again. Probably some time after the next Bundestagswahl.

It's always sad to see how low some users of VGC have fallen. This thread shows it.

And yet, the AFD made significant gains in spite of Germany's extensive censorship. It took over half a week for the Cologne sexual assaults to be reported. Facebook took down Ivan Jurcevic's video because Germany forced them to. Suppression of information is really bad and the constituents are notably frustrated with that. Same thing is happening in Sweden. The Swedish government censors any news that put migrants in a negative light because they don't want the Sweden Democrats to gain footing. That greatly backfired because why? The Swedish government didn't listen to its constituents. Germany and Sweden are democratic nations meaning that the governments should serve its people. So when the citizens say there is a big problem, the governments should take the responsibility to fix it. Instead, they tell their constituents to fuck off and cry racism (even though Islam is not a race and I don't understand why people continue to make this mistake). For AFD to go away as you badly wish it to be, then this needs to stop. I really don't want to see the map by mid-2016.



RolStoppable said:
Scisca said:

I have a question. Why is it, that every single time I see a Western politian or reporter talk about the right wing, it's always "populist". This Bloomberg article:

"Germany is no longer immune to the allure of right-wing populism" and "An associated rise in populism".

Why is it? Why is having conservative views immediately depreciated and stigmatized by implying that it's wrong, bad and inferior to being a leftist? Somehow the Western media isn't refering to the left wing as "delusional left", yet it's always "populist right". Always. Almost as if that was the actual name. Doesn't this kill the idea of our basic freedoms? Shouldn't this be banned for reporters to do?

I don't know about other cases, but the AfD earned its reputation long before the refugee crisis. If I remember correctly, the AfD even went through a split because one of its founders thought that the party's collective thoughts were drifting too far towards being nazi-like.

The refugee crisis obviously gives such a political party a big boost under the guise that they are acting in the best interest of the country.

This isn't the time for nitpicking. Who cares if they have a crazy neo-nazi or two when our beautiful continent is being invaded?! That party getting votes is an important signal to Mutti to change her ways.

The peoples of Europe are upset that Germany is trying to destroy Europe yet once again.

But we won't allow it. We must close the borders NOW.



Aura7541 said:
Barozi said:
the AFD is an insignificant protest party that will never be part of any government. They can't and won't change anything. Like the Pirate party, they will soon be at 1-2% again. Probably some time after the next Bundestagswahl.

It's always sad to see how low some users of VGC have fallen. This thread shows it.

And yet, the AFD made significant gains in spite of Germany's extensive censorship. It took over half a week for the Cologne sexual assaults to be reported. Facebook took down Ivan Jurcevic's video because Germany forced them to. Suppression of information is really bad and the constituents are notably frustrated with that. Same thing is happening in Sweden. The Swedish government censors any news that put migrants in a negative light because they don't want the Sweden Democrats to gain footing. That greatly backfired because why? The Swedish government didn't listen to its constituents. Germany and Sweden are democratic nations meaning that the governments should serve its people. So when the citizens say there is a big problem, the governments should take the responsibility to fix it. Instead, they tell their constituents to fuck off and cry racism (even though Islam is not a race and I don't understand why people continue to make this mistake). For AFD to go away as you badly wish it to be, then this needs to stop. I really don't want to see the map by mid-2016.

Germany forced Facebook to take down Ivan Jurcevic's video? lol such fear for the truth.

It's funny how that totalitarian mindset of Germans seems to never disappear, be it national socialism or international socialism.

Germany has far too much influence on European affairs. We can't allow this people to decide our fate anymore! It'll be suicide for all.