vanguardian1 said: I believe the cpu/gpu are at the limits of their respective technologies, any further advancements in power would require changing the architechture of the machine away from being compatible with the gamecube and thus introducing the Wii with the current PS3/360 backwards compatibility problems that they both have, as well as nullifying the advantage of the developers tools because the wii development tools are based off of the gamecube development kits, which have been around for many years and fine-tuned fairly well, in comparison to a completely new set of tools for the 360 and ps3.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. If I were to compare the jump from Gamecube to Wii, it would be something like a Pentium II processor to a Pentium III. It makes plenty sense that they could probably double or triple the speed of the processor and beef up the GPU significantly without actually changing the architecture, thus maintaining 100% backwards compatibility with Gamecube and Wii games.

Also, the 360 uses pretty much the exact tool set many PC game developers use. The only dev tools that are entirely new are the ones for the PS3, because the Cell processor is a completely new entity with complex branching through the SPEs. 

Alot of the stuff was already mentioned, let me add one that I didn't notice: if you wanna play GC games on the Wii you gotta buy a GC memory card.... wtf? why? why not just store it on the Wii like Wii and VC games do???

ckmlb said: Alot of the stuff was already mentioned, let me add one that I didn't notice: if you wanna play GC games on the Wii you gotta buy a GC memory card.... wtf? why? why not just store it on the Wii like Wii and VC games do???

Most people with GC games already have a memory card.  The VC games take up almost no space compared to Wii and GC games, and the Wii games will probably take up the rest(unless you buy an SD card).

 

When you switch to the gamecube mode, the wii's own hardware differences aren't accessible to the gamecube software. I don't know if it could be updated to, or perhaps it's a hardware incompatibility. The Wii uses a modified processor from the same family of processors as the gamecube uses, just the fastest model (with some other significant improvements) with a die shrink and clock speed increase as well. To change to a faster processor would require a change of proecessor architectures, creating a lot of hassles for backwards compatibility, as well as heat and power consumption as well. If you read the interviews, Iwata himself gave the Nintendo engineers a stack of 3 dvd-cases and told them that he didn't want the unit any bigger than that. I'd say they got pretty damned close. :) Just remember that every time you change something on the Wii's design, it's going to have a significantly negative effect on several other aspects of it's overall package in comparison to it's current hardware configuration. The Wii's appeal isn't just for show, it's rather an impressive combination of several design factors that the 360 and PS3 completely ignored, thus why many people are calling the Wii "the new ipod", it's not just looks that cause that. :) I knew a significant amount of the 360's game development took place on PC's but I wasn't aware they were able to use existing tools. I suppose that makes sense considering that the 360 still uses a PC type architechture.

Ah, I wasn't taking into account the reasons why the Wii is significantly smaller and takes a lot less power consumption than the other two consoles. I suppose they could do something similar to what the PS3 initially did, PS2 on two chips (EE and GS) to ease backward compatibility, but it definitely would increase the size of the console. I'm assuming they'd have to make it larger if we expect Wii HD for next gen.

It is an assumption on my part that they can use existing tools, based on the fact that a number of 360 games are seeing PC releases, and vice versa. If you're a programmer, you can actually hop onto microsoft's site and get the XNA Game Studio Express. With this tool, you can build a game that works on the 360.

Check this page out: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/tools.htm

Edit: Notable tools used include - Maya, 3ds Max, CryENGINE, Unreal Engine 3, Havok Physics Engine, Bink, etc.

"Im still waiting on a Wii that has CD support ......" people acually still use cd's?

It's the design approach differences, the 360 and PS3 designs were built around the technology while the Wii uses the technology to built around the design.

 

I'm not saying one is any better than the other, by the way, just stating the differences in the hardware approach.

SilentWolf said: ckmlb said: Alot of the stuff was already mentioned, let me add one that I didn't notice: if you wanna play GC games on the Wii you gotta buy a GC memory card.... wtf? why? why not just store it on the Wii like Wii and VC games do??? Most people with GC games already have a memory card. The VC games take up almost no space compared to Wii and GC games, and the Wii games will probably take up the rest(unless you buy an SD card).

 They couldn't fit in GC saves.... why not?? Also I am buying GC games retroactively as I didn't have a gamecube ever, didn't Nintendo think about the massive amount of ppl who have Wiis who didn't have GCs?

ckmlb said: SilentWolf said: ckmlb said: Alot of the stuff was already mentioned, let me add one that I didn't notice: if you wanna play GC games on the Wii you gotta buy a GC memory card.... wtf? why? why not just store it on the Wii like Wii and VC games do??? Most people with GC games already have a memory card. The VC games take up almost no space compared to Wii and GC games, and the Wii games will probably take up the rest(unless you buy an SD card).   They couldn't fit in GC saves.... why not?? Also I am buying GC games retroactively as I didn't have a gamecube ever, didn't Nintendo think about the massive amount of ppl who have Wiis who didn't have GCs?

You can't get a great deal of Wii games on a mere 512 hard drive, much less Wii and GC games.  For the second part, my guess is that they didn't expect many people who never had a GC to suddenly start buying GC games for the Wii.  Right now a 251 GC memory card sells for around $20; if you're buying enough GC games then it would probably be worth it for you to buy one.

 

Yeah. I have picked up soo many GC games. I really missed out on a whole generation of Nintendo games. Before the Wii, I would just play my PS2 and N64. Never got tired of my N64. As for whats wrong with Wii? I dont find anything wrong with it, because it meets my expectations. I knew what I was getting when I bought it, and it has not dissapointed me yet. Reliability-Check. Innovation-Check. Price-Check. Online not main priority-Im OK with that. I dont mind putting in those FC/WC, really. Any move towards online is good enough for me. Games-They are coming. I dont remember the Halo Box flying off shelfs until Gears of War came out 1 year after its release. The same will happen with the Wii and, hopefully, the PS3.