By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales - The end of Xbox is approaching

SWORDF1SH on 18 February 2016
RolStoppable said:
SWORDF1SH said:

You're going to have to link me to get the context of that statement. Personally I don't buy that they made Xbox to protect windows. You're trying to put round pegs in square holes. For me MS saw how the gaming market was expanding and they wanted a peace of the pie. 

The statement is over a decade old, so a Google search turns up way too many dummy results to dig for a quote. But if what I've said was wrong, then kowenicki or someone else would have already pointed out what a crazy theory it is. The original Xbox was a colossal failure (lost around $4 billion over the course of four years), so something much bigger than gaming had to be at stake to justify another Xbox.

You aren't really defending your opinions that great. Your first response to justify your opinion;

"It's not tripe. First I explained why Xbox came into existence and then I explained why it should come to an end."

Like that statement justifies your opinion. It doesn't. Your opinions and presumptions are also written as fact, another thing I disagree with.

Then you try and justify your opinion by saying that because kowenicki hasn't pulled you up on it, it must be correct. I'm sorry but it doesn't work like that. Kowenicki actually made some good points on this thread and if he wants to stand your corner for you and explain why I should acknowledge your opinions as plausible, I'll be happy to listen. I'm not against the possibility that your opinions could be right, I'm against opinions that don't make sense or have very little reasoning.

Then you come up with another wild claim, "The original Xbox was a colossal failure (lost around $4 billion over the course of four years), so something much bigger than gaming had to be at stake to justify another Xbox."

Again please explain further, you're looking at things from only one perspective. By your reasoning Sony should of packed up shop and left the console business in 2010 after huge losses. Sometimes you have to look at the long game. How much of that $4B loss is due to Xbox live and being a front runner in online connected consoles? That's just an example of betting big to reap the rewards in the future. MS aren't afraid to take big gambles.



Around the Network
mjk45 on 18 February 2016
SWORDF1SH said:
mjk45 said:

Can't find the link it was along time ago but Billgates said the reason they ok'd xbox was they saw Sony's success and how much  Playstation had grown the market and Kutaragi talking about making playstation the centre of the home starting with PS2.

MS where concerned they Sony with their entertainment arms would succeed a MS home box would be a complete closed system something they didn't have with windows so they entered to stop Sony owning the home and how Sony leveraging that could impact windows.  

Thank you. That's a little bit more of an explanation. How true do you think that statement is and how much weight do you that reason truly holds to why they built the Xbox?

At the time I think it rang true , we have to remember Sony was a lot more powerful back then and where seen as a real threat ,so  a large part of MS's decision was defensive , having said that it wasn't the only  deciding factor another part was to capitalise on the growing console market. 

That was then how they feel today is any ones guess , if you ask you get answers ranging from , even if it's not the major plank it is still a key one in the business ,to it should be spun off or sold , also when it comes to the state of xbox you have x box the brand versus xbox the console , and last gen the brand included live but now it seems that you could make a case for live being more and more it's own brand.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

Alby_da_Wolf on 18 February 2016
RolStoppable said:

[...]

kowenicki said:
Great, but how does that makes MS different to Sony or Ninty in the end game?

Games will be a service on multiple platforms and devices unless you want to die or be very niche.

(There are people in the music industry (essentially greedy and selfish idiots) who think you can go the gaming route and release exclusive music on only one platform. They are fucking idiots. It is so contra to what consumers expect and want now)

Making gaming entirely service-based only works for companies who use the same controller every time. So because of that aspect alone it's unlikely that Nintendo will go that route. Theoretically, you could release a new type of controller to work with a service, but that wouldn't garner as much consumer and developer interest as a box that comes with said controller.

Besides, this thread isn't about the end of Microsoft consoles, but rather Xbox-branded ones.

SWORDF1SH said:

Out of curiosity, is the reasons you gave why they invented Xbox your opinion, popular knowledge or an official fact?

If it's your opinion I'll stand by my statement of this being a 'tripe thread'. 

Calling it "popular knowledge" would probably be too generous because a lot of gamers don't know about it. Microsoft themselves refered to Xbox as a strategic defensive business move.

Besides controller issues, gaming as a service can be acceptable for gamers with a connection with more than decent bandwidth and very low ping (so forget about selling such services to country and small village dwellers that solved their download bandwidth problems with sat connections, as they even worsen ping problems and do nothing for upload bandwidth ones). Companies going entirely that way will have to give up gamers with not very good connections.
About MS defensive strategy, yes, those reasons may be over now, true threats are elsewhere and Sony never really had a chance to conquer PC market with consoles, but defence reasons may have been replaced by different, but still strategic ones, like occupying a share of a market to avoid leaving it available to competitors. As long as this can be done at a profit, taking into account possible losses on consoles and some ill-fated peripherals and sure profits on successful peripherals, SW, royalties and service fees, MS has no reasons to give up. Anyway, as Sony isn't the threat MS once feared, and Ninty is precious, as it's an irreplaceable source of inspiration in the gaming industry, we can expect MS competition against them a lot less harsh than in the paranoid and power freakish Ballmer era.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Swordmasterman on 18 February 2016
MoHasanie said:
I don't think MS will get rid of the Xbox division, but I don't think they will making another console. They can't compete with Playstation, and there isn't much money to be made in the console business anyways.

"There Isn't much money to be made in the console business anyways", you mean because Microsoft, don't have market share right ?, because Playstation, return a profit of over 800-1 Billion per year, and Nintendo, is making over 400 Millions of US$ per year, so there have much money to make from the Console Busines, and the PC, Console, and Mobile gaming market, will aways have growth Worldwide.



SWORDF1SH on 18 February 2016
mjk45 said:
SWORDF1SH said:

Thank you. That's a little bit more of an explanation. How true do you think that statement is and how much weight do you that reason truly holds to why they built the Xbox?

At the time I think it rang true , we have to remember Sony was a lot more powerful back then and where seen as a real threat ,so  a large part of MS's decision was defensive , having said that it wasn't the only  deciding factor another part was to capitalise on the growing console market. 

That was then how they feel today is any ones guess , if you ask you get answers ranging from , even if it's not the major plank it is still a key one in the business ,to it should be spun off or sold , also when it comes to the state of xbox you have x box the brand versus xbox the console , and last gen the brand included live but now it seems that you could make a case for live being more and more it's own brand.

Some good points. Personally I don't think the brand is doing bad, they are still making money. Also they need Xbox to sell Live and MS won't want to give that up those subs anytime soon.

Getting rid of Xbox would be a step backwards rather than forwards. They will morph Xbox into what they want rather than get rid of a valuable and profitable brand. 



Around the Network
Swordmasterman on 18 February 2016
Mafioso said:

The Xbox console business will continue because it's not about fanboy wars, its about a Windows presence in the livingroom. It always has been. It was to fight off Apple from clawing  into the space 15+ yrs ago.

A lower cost toy box you can buy at retail is what the livingroom gaming/multimedia consumer buys into. The vast majority of gamers in this space are not techies, and value convenience and the bespoke experience.  For that they will always need a specialized product to offer consumers.

Besides, what makes you think in an era where these companies are getting gamers to lfork up subscription revenue that they would have any desire to exit such a business?

Think about that: Sony and MS are getting gamers to PAY A YEARLY FEE for the luxury of fully using the devices they already sold you, and people are doing it.

Don't kid yourselves. They didn't just assume the undertaking of manufacturing Surface, to let go of their biggest CE brand that sells a ton of software and is one of the few of their business with a mindshare amongst day-to-day , non-enterprise consumers.

The idea that MS is the least commited to console gaming comes from a twisted fanboy mentality. No one puts more money into their first party IP than MS does for Halo. Many steps they've taken this gen say otherwise too- their investment in Killer Instinct, experimenting with different models (F2P Fable Legends), purchasing Gears of War IP , the well oiled Forza franchise putting out quality software, the investment into new AAA IP like Quantum Break, RECORE etc...

Fanboys need to stop being delusional simply because MS doesn't play by their rules.  The Xbox is a platform above just being a console, one that will be open to 200M+ Windows 10 machines. The potential of that alone when you consider there are 125M+ active Steam users(all gamers!) is better than any in gaming. Users are there already, you dont have to wait for unit sales to sell gaming software!

Anyone can buy an 'Xbox' game. Anyone can connect to their friends and rack up Achievevos. That is not a commitment to gamers? Is that not a commitment to the Xbox brand?

The only reason that Microsoft, is releasing games on PC, is because they made a lot of mistakes, and the Xbox Division, don't have enought Money to continue Bleeding, they will release the games on PC, to  try some kind of Extra Profit, but with the sacrifice of Units  of Hardware, Live subscribers, and Software licensing.

 

They had to throw Kinect Away, they have spend more than 2.5 Billions just on Minecraft, while they would be able to do something much better with 2.5 Billions, and they also are selling Xbox One, cheaper than Playstation 4, when the 2 consoles atleast have the same production costs.

 

Microsoft, have a lot of money but cannot bleed Money, here we are talking about Microsoft, start releasing games as a third party company, because now, they are doing exactly the same thing, releasing as a Third party for PC, and the only difference is that the game is Exclusive for their Store, is like EA, releasing a game on "EA'S Machine" and making it Exclusive for Origin, this would still be a Multiplataform tittle on PC.

 

Just like all the games that are avaliables on Steam Machines, are Multiplataform games for PC, and not "Valve Exclusives".



jason1637 on 18 February 2016
Hiku said:
jason1637 said:

It would still be idiotic to drop the HW. I cant go much into detail since im on a phone right now but here are some reasons.

MS makes lots of money from xbox live so dropping that and keeping it free on PC is a mistake.

The xb1 is not selling bad its doing like 8ml units a year which may not be as good as the ps4 but still isnt bad at all. 

The next console is already in development.

Third party deals they have still last for a few more years.

Pc games and xbox games sell around the same or sometimes the xbox game would sell more. An example of this is fallout 4, the elder scrolls online, cod etc. So whats the point to limit themselves to pc when they can make double the profit on both platforms.

Only 3 huge xbox games have gone to pc. Qb(alan wake was also on PC), Gears UE(gears 1 was released on pc) halo wars 2(rts are better on pc).

Windows store cant compete with steam because the only support its better are from mobile devs and MS, while Steam has much of 3rd party games, and PC exclusives.

Xb1 is still much cheaper than a gaming PC so to a regular consumer who is interested in its exclusives would get the xb1.

The xb1 is the gateway to the living room for MS. Many companies have been trying to get into people's living rooms. Apple with its Apple TV. Valve with its steambox. Amazon with its fire TV.

I still think MS will continue to make xbox hardware for atleast one more generation. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Xbox brand would end. Just that it would become a service. So they could still have a subscription.

Steam has been very successful, and Microsoft have an advantage in that they own the Windows OS. Steam tried to launch their own OS and failed.

Xbox doesn't need to sell bad in order for them to want to invest their money in more lucrative things.

The next console always begins development after a new one is released. That doesn't mean it will take the shape they initially envisioned, or come out at all.

Not sure what third party deals you're talking about, but XB1 will be out for several more years.

Xbox doesn't make double the profit on the games you mentioned. They would only do that if they published the games for PC. However, if Xbox was a service on PC, and people bought games through it, that would be a different matter. Also, they would save billions in costs for R&D and logistics by not making a console, and selling games digitally online instead. So it can definitely be more profitable, even if the games don't sell as much on PC.

I dunno about huge, but many of their exclusives take that route, like Killer Instinct, Titanfall, Dead Rising, Ryse, Fable, and I believe they dropped some strong hints about Halo 5 going to PC around two months ago. We can expect this list to grow in the coming months.

It wouldn't be Windows store, but Xbox store. It's a brand that has strong recognition amount third parties. If MS wants to go for it, they can definitely get PC exclusives as well.

Xb1 is cheaper than a gaming PC, but there's also PS4 for that. MS can always publish games for PS4 is they want, to cater to those gamers.

That thing about gateway to the livingroom didn't really work out too well.

Well the xbox brand won't really work well as a subscription because if someone wants to get the games they want they just download it on steam. Even though they put their exclusives on there most people will buy a one-month membership and go back to playing online on steam for free. Also there are PC gamers that just play F2P games so they might not be interested in the service. It would be better if they just but their games on steam or on windows store but not in direct competition with steam. Also their Xbox hardware. 

Steam is successful but i don't know how MS owning windows is an advantage. Its not like they will force people to use their service.

Actually it kinda does. If the xbox one was selling bad then software would be low so it could cause them to invest more on the PC Xbox app.

Possible.

I was mistaken. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/05/22/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/Microsoft-NFL.aspx

But still MS is making a good amount from software sales on Xbox.

Killer instinct releases this year(3 years after xbox launch), dead rising, titanfall are 3rd party exclusives, i dont really know whats up with fable anymore tbh. Also about Halo 5 MS confirmed that it wasnt coming to pc http://n4g.com/news/1809371/microsoft-clarifies-halo-5-not-coming-to-pc

 That could work but it would still be hard to compete with steams huge userbase. 

MS joined the industry to make sure that Sony doesn't overtake the PC gaming market. I doubt that they would end their hardware to support their competition.

How come?

 



Swordmasterman on 18 February 2016
desosav said:
MoHasanie said:
I don't think MS will get rid of the Xbox division, but I don't think they will making another console. They can't compete with Playstation, and there isn't much money to be made in the console business anyways.

 

they surely can't compete with ps4 but they have the chance to do so in the next gen of consoles as they did last gen.
I think that console business has a lot to offer to companies like MS and Sony. Just think of the economic mess sony is in and the only cash cow for them...PS4.

 

Hopefully MS will invest big time for the next gen. Instead of selling kinect sensors and vr they should make a insanely powerfull console with ssd drive huge amount of ram, gpu and cpu power. It is very important for their next system to be developer frinedly like Xbox 360. For god sake they are into software business. They should develop the proper dev tools to make game development piece of cake

Playstation, is just Sony's 6 most profitable Division, so Sony, can throw Playstation away, and still make money from other things.

And if Microsoft, don't build a good image this Gen (the thing that they are not doing) they will sell even less consoles with their next console.



mjk45 on 18 February 2016
SWORDF1SH said:
mjk45 said:

At the time I think it rang true , we have to remember Sony was a lot more powerful back then and where seen as a real threat ,so  a large part of MS's decision was defensive , having said that it wasn't the only  deciding factor another part was to capitalise on the growing console market. 

That was then how they feel today is any ones guess , if you ask you get answers ranging from , even if it's not the major plank it is still a key one in the business ,to it should be spun off or sold , also when it comes to the state of xbox you have x box the brand versus xbox the console , and last gen the brand included live but now it seems that you could make a case for live being more and more it's own brand.

Some good points. Personally I don't think the brand is doing bad, they are still making money. Also they need Xbox to sell Live and MS won't want to give that up those subs anytime soon.

Getting rid of Xbox would be a step backwards rather than forwards. They will morph Xbox into what they want rather than get rid of a valuable and profitable brand. 

I tend to agree ,I think it's here to stay the only thing that will change is like you said , the form it takes and that happens to most businesses overtime , look at the  new pc approach , for some people to link it with giving little reason to get an xbox is pretty tenuous , it's not like their putting their catalogue on steam,  buying through win 10 store seems to me to be close to what the console side does now with the Live store.



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

Swordmasterman on 18 February 2016
jason1637 said:
Hiku said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Xbox brand would end. Just that it would become a service. So they could still have a subscription.

Steam has been very successful, and Microsoft have an advantage in that they own the Windows OS. Steam tried to launch their own OS and failed.

Xbox doesn't need to sell bad in order for them to want to invest their money in more lucrative things.

The next console always begins development after a new one is released. That doesn't mean it will take the shape they initially envisioned, or come out at all.

Not sure what third party deals you're talking about, but XB1 will be out for several more years.

Xbox doesn't make double the profit on the games you mentioned. They would only do that if they published the games for PC. However, if Xbox was a service on PC, and people bought games through it, that would be a different matter. Also, they would save billions in costs for R&D and logistics by not making a console, and selling games digitally online instead. So it can definitely be more profitable, even if the games don't sell as much on PC.

I dunno about huge, but many of their exclusives take that route, like Killer Instinct, Titanfall, Dead Rising, Ryse, Fable, and I believe they dropped some strong hints about Halo 5 going to PC around two months ago. We can expect this list to grow in the coming months.

It wouldn't be Windows store, but Xbox store. It's a brand that has strong recognition amount third parties. If MS wants to go for it, they can definitely get PC exclusives as well.

Xb1 is cheaper than a gaming PC, but there's also PS4 for that. MS can always publish games for PS4 is they want, to cater to those gamers.

That thing about gateway to the livingroom didn't really work out too well.

Well the xbox brand won't really work well as a subscription because if someone wants to get the games they want they just download it on steam. Even though they put their exclusives on there most people will buy a one-month membership and go back to playing online on steam for free. Also there are PC gamers that just play F2P games so they might not be interested in the service. It would be better if they just but their games on steam or on windows store but not in direct competition with steam. Also their Xbox hardware. 

Steam is successful but i don't know how MS owning windows is an advantage. Its not like they will force people to use their service.

Actually it kinda does. If the xbox one was selling bad then software would be low so it could cause them to invest more on the PC Xbox app.

Possible.

I was mistaken. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/05/22/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/Microsoft-NFL.aspx

But still MS is making a good amount from software sales on Xbox.

Killer instinct releases this year(3 years after xbox launch), dead rising, titanfall are 3rd party exclusives, i dont really know whats up with fable anymore tbh. Also about Halo 5 MS confirmed that it wasnt coming to pc http://n4g.com/news/1809371/microsoft-clarifies-halo-5-not-coming-to-pc

 That could work but it would still be hard to compete with steams huge userbase. 

MS joined the industry to make sure that Sony doesn't overtake the PC gaming market. I doubt that they would end their hardware to support their competition.

How come?

 

They also said that Quantum Break, was not releasing on PC, Phill Spencer, said this about 4-5 Months ago, so Microsoft's Word (not the program, the how reliable Microsoft is) is not good, they say one thing and do another.